Death Pits of Nel Toth

Commander / EDH Squirrel_of_War

SCORE: 129 | 69 COMMENTS | 22502 VIEWS | IN 54 FOLDERS


ZendikariWol says... #1

Your deck is better than mine (assuming a few cards are potent in your meta). However I do believe there are a few cards you could borrow from my build.

Viridian Emissary is pretty good early-game ramp.

Vindictive Lich is an easy way to personalize the pain of your opponents. It'll screw over voltron and pillow forts pretty easily.

Wurmcoil Engine is just horrifying. Gigantic body, good life gain and can trade off with big attackers. Great way to deter attackers.

Deathreap Ritual is just fantastic. Very nice source of advantage.

Lifecrafter's Bestiary. It looks kinda neat, but trust me it gets out of hand VERY quickly.

Archfiend of Depravity is a must-have if anything in your meta is going wide. I play against Odric, Lunarch Marshal and this card destroys it.

Where on earth is Reclamation Sage?

Perilous Forays is a ramp legend.

Dictate of Erebos and Butcher of Malakir are great ways to starve opponents of resources.

Ravenous Chupacabra is at least worth considering.

Thragtusk is good life gain and a token.

Treasure Keeper as a really powerful semi-cascade effect.

If you're at all interested in hearing my opinions on what you could cut for some of these, I will assume you aren't until further notice :)

Have a nice day and happy brewing!

April 18, 2018 4:27 p.m.

@ZendikariWol I absolutely would love to hear what you would consider cutting and why. That is always the hardest part in my opinion. I very much appreciate your feedback and I have most of those cards so it's an easy update.

April 18, 2018 8:20 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #3

It's nice to see someone who is so gracious in accepting new ideas. Time to sound like an ass now I guess...

First off, I don't know how many cards you usually draw off of Greater Good, but it seems like you'd usually discard more than you draw. Perhaps that's intentional dredging but still likely a loss of card advantage.

And once again, I'm not sure how many creatures you kill with Massacre Wurm, but it can't be that many? Is your meta full of tiny things?

I've never felt Shriekmaw hits enough things. If you do then keep it, but it's worth considering.

Rune-Scarred Demon is not a bad tutor, by any means. However at 7 mana, you should probably go 1 more and try for Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Give 'em the good 'ol razzle dazzle. That or just a really good source of card draw or draw control.

Maybe Deathrite Shaman doesn't do enough compared to Viridian Emissary, Primal Druid, or even Veteran Explorer (if you feel like having the table on your side).

How much are you usually casting Walking Ballista for? Is it enough?

Given how long your creatures stay around, how much do those +1 counters from Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest do?

And how many swings does Grave Titan get in?

Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed is maybe not as good as Baloth Null. More on why a little lower down.

Okay. My reasoning behind this comment. Aristocrats decks like this have an advantage for one key reason: every spell is several spells. If your creatures enter the battlefield or die and trigger an ability in doing so, that is one spell. Normally whatever you gain from sacrificing them is another. However, if they do nothing when they enter and sacrifice themselves, then really you have only cast one spell.

It benefits you more to trigger one effect when the creature enters or dies, one or two triggers from other creatures when any creature dies, amd another from sacrificing it yourself.

For example, you cast a Baloth Null. It enters the battlefield and you rummage in your grave a bit. You sacrifice it to Viscera Seer and scry. Then you have a Deathreap Ritual out so you draw into whatever you scried for.

Assume you have the same board. You cast Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and sacrifice him. You get one thing back from the grave and draw a card from Deathreap Ritual at end of turn. It's really not as great.

Having creatures that freely sacrifice themselves is good, but cuts one spell out of it.

April 19, 2018 9:13 a.m.

@ZendikariWol Thanks, that helps a lot. I'll respond in order of your comment.

-Greater Good is an excellent card but not amazing in here so I will consider cutting it and possibly replace it with Sadistic Hypnotist since I would like to have a 'free' sac outlet in place of it.

-Massacre Wurm is amazing and with a few ways to double his triggered ability he is even better so he has to stay. That artwork too!

-Shriekmaw is in there because he can get rid of stuff and get me an experience counter. He is a bit narrow but I count it as 2 CMC and I'm trying to reduce my curve. I will definitely consider cutting it though.

-Rune-Scarred Demon is so great, I always cheat him in and he wins me the game if I'm recurring him every turn or doubling his ETB ability. Can't cut it.

-Deathrite Shaman was recently added and I'm not 100% sold on him yet. I like that it's grave hate and I'm anticipating Muldrotha, the Gravetide is going to be a huge presence after Dominaria comes out. I may Swap him for Agent of Erebos depending how the meta changes.

-Walking Ballista is only in there because I recently added in Protean Hulk and Ballista allows for me to infinite combo win. that whole group of 5 cards is just on a trial period for the time being so Ballista may end up coming out of the deck. (see most recent update)

-Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest is in as a combo piece, he lets persist creatures return to the battlefield indefinitely. He is also good for going wide but that is rarely my strategy. He is staying for the time being.

-Grave Titan is 10/10 on 3 bodies for 6 CMC. He is on par with Wurmcoil Engine (which used to be in here). He is staying for now.

-Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed is a super star, he gets ANY black card so I can play cards like Entomb, Damnation, Living Death, even Contamination, more than one time. The self sac is a bonus.

I see your reasoning behind running more cards that don't require sacrifice to do things. My reason behind having cards that can self sacrifice is I want to be able to get value from the creatures without relying on a sac outlet. In my meta a sac outlet will usually not last long because they know it will end badly for them if it stays on the battlefield. Another reason is I decided to go with an ETB theme, Panharmonicon and Strionic Resonator make them even better. Depending on how stupid my board state gets I sometime have quadruple triggers for every ETB.

Where on earth is Reclamation Sage? I opted to go with Manglehorn since there are some lighning fast decks in my meta that rely heavily on artifact ramp and another arch nemesis I have is Memnarch.

I'm going to break the deck down and see if I will include some of your suggestions. The ones I'm currently considering are:

-Vindictive Lich - literally bought this card a week ago with the intention of putting it in but couldn't decide what to replace.

-Wurmcoil Engine - was in here before might be in here again.

-Deathreap Ritual - love this card just took it out a while back but maybe I'll put it back in since it's so goo with Strionic Resonator.

-Archfiend of Depravity - I tried it out briefly, if the art was better I'd put it in immediately. Still might though.

-Thragtusk - great card but I'm not a fan of the artwork.

Thanks again for the comments and the +1! Keep an eye out for the updated list in a day or two.

April 19, 2018 4:26 p.m. Edited.

ZendikariWol says... #5

Okay. You've got some good points.

1) I misread Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. I thought it was any creature. How? I'm a moron.

2) How exactly are you cheating in Rune-Scarred Demon?

3) What all is in your meta? I'm assuming you're in with some competitive fellows? With a little more meta info I can be more specific with my criticisms.

4) Are you using Strionic Resonator to double up etb triggers? Use it on Meren of Clan Nel Toth! I mean there are times when it can go either way.

April 20, 2018 9:31 a.m.

dresmith says... #7

It might just be my bad luck, but at least 70% of the time I'm starved for colored mana with this build and wasting turns.

May 31, 2018 2 p.m.

@dresmith: Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I've actually had the same thing happen to me a few times. There are a lot of utility lands in here and they are really good ones but I think I'm going to take a few out and just keep the most important ones in to fix the color Mana problem. I'll do that later today so watch for the update. Don't forget to +1 if you haven't already, thanks!

May 31, 2018 3:41 p.m.

cicely24 says... #9

Really quality meren build, you gave me some great ideas for my deck thanks!! +1

July 11, 2018 11:23 a.m.

@cicely24: Thanks! I put a lot of effort into the card choices and synergies. The categories separate the cards into the basic categories but so many cards have multiple purposes, especially the lands. I playtest and make changes fairly often so keep checking back. My favorite interaction currently is Realms Uncharted and World Shaper. Even without World Shaper you can always snag Strip Mine and Wasteland in addition to the other two you want and threaten to blow up lands if you don't get what you want.

July 11, 2018 10:19 p.m.

cicely24 says... #11

I actually went to my lgs yesterday and got a few cards including Realms Uncharted! I already had World Shaper but youre so right, it really is a great synergy. I will definitely check back often for more inspiration from your deck!! Do you have any thoughts on Grave Betrayal? I thought it might work with cards like Grave Pact or Dictate of Erebos. Too expensive or situational?

July 12, 2018 8:27 a.m.

@cicely24: Grave Betrayal is a super cool card, great art and powerful ability but 7 is a very high cost for a card that usually gets cast and then destroyed before any value. There are a few ways to recur it in this deck but a creature would be much easier to abuse in the deck. If you really like the card then use it but in my opinion the are better choices. Another card that is amazing with Realms Uncharted is Petrified Field. I'm not sure if I'm going to put it in because I don't want too much colorless mana but I might test it out.

July 12, 2018 10:48 a.m.

RyuKiba says... #13

Why are you running Walking Ballista over Triskelion? You know that combo doesn't work on it's own right?

September 9, 2018 11:04 p.m.

@RyuKiba: I run it for the Protean hulk combo.

The main hulk chain is. Sac Hulk, fetch:

Sac Body Snatcher in response to it's first ability to reanimate Hulk then sac him again to get:

September 9, 2018 11:14 p.m.

RyuKiba says... #15

I get it now thanks for the explanation.

September 9, 2018 11:53 p.m.

Might be a noob question but does that first infinite combo actually work? because when the creature with persist comes back with a -1/-1 counter, and when Mazirek puts a +1/+1 counter onto it, it doesnt get rid of the -1/-1 counter does it? It just has both counters on it? So they wouldnt come back with persist a second time since they already had a -1/-1 counter. Thats the way I see it at least.

April 17, 2019 2:33 a.m.

PlatinumOne says... #17

darksuffrage21: -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters cancel each other out. if a creature is given 1 counter of each type, both are simply removed.

April 17, 2019 2:39 a.m.

PlatinumOne oh ok. thanks. I thought they were both there but the power and toughness wouldnt change. My bad.

April 17, 2019 2:42 a.m.

InfamousOkapi says... #19

WE BACK BABY :)

July 7, 2020 1:24 a.m.

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