hah Ash Zealot is genius! Vexing Devil is a good choice too. you have a nice blend of aggro and cruel control. i like it!

scrotality thanks you very much for the plus one and enjoying the deck!! I thought since this control was so early game why not hit tem hard and fast. So your deck and a little mixture of my rakdos deck hells bells were fused for an extremely fast deck.

Blightning > Rakdos's Return XD

SwampHippie thanks for the idea of blightning and it helps i have some of those already and im hoping my new edits while making the deck cheaper will help it from killing myself lol

if you want to play cruel control, you need Cruel Ultimatum , cruel control is a deck that stalls until you play Cruel Ultimatum , when you suddenly win.

I get the card but its only two colors and its a low curve deck with aggro one drops thats my problem with the card but otherwise it would be wonderful to run in my deck

Its definitly something to look into if i make another one thats tri color and slowerso thank you very much for showing the card i never seen it before

lord_of_the_snakes traditionally, yes that is correct. i think the idea behind that build has evolved over time though to encompass more than just Cruel Ultimatum . i mean generally speaking, that card sucks lol. there are quite a few good threads in the forums about this.

scrotalityhey how ya doing man? Love ur meta deck still. Any advice on how to make it faster or more effective?

I seem to get a theme of hand disruption here. Some of your discard cards are really not the best to be what you want to call "Competitive."

I'd suggest running playset of cards like these for your discard instead:

• Thoughtseize : pay 2, force any discard.

• Inquisition of Kozilek : force a discard of 3 CMC or less; those are much more important than 4 or more.

• Raven's Crime : Already good. Recurrable, but be careful of overusing it, usually much better in Life from the Loam decks where you can get your lands back.

• Liliana of the Veil : Discard/sac on a stick for 3.

• adding in Phyrexian Revoker might be okay in that it prevents them from casting cards you've seen in their hands (from all of your hand disruption) and prevent them from playing them.

The addition of red (and those red aggro creatures, especially) have almost no purpose in a discard deck. Adding red would give you access to cards like Blightning and Sire Of Insanity but really just gives you nothing in terms of control.

I'd say review what you really want the deck to do and give it direction; a confused deck is hard to use AND hard to win with.

I would strongly recommend you upgrade your discard package with cards like Thoughtseize , Inquisition of Kozilek , and Funeral Charm . I run a B/r 8rack build that you're welcome to check out for other ideas: Rack em Up!

Osang_21 I like the idea of kozilek and have put it to replace brains and omg revoker I have to simply work in their some how. ill probally remove two of the ravens so it fits in.. the red is to allow me to use blightning and the creatures such as devil just hurt the opponent a lot due to me prevent a hand from existing. I definitely like Thoughtseize just with so much life loss able to happen on my side I was worried it kill me to quickly. liliana is just simply too expensive to run but I definitely would if ever got her for a cheap price.

kmcree thank you for the idea of Funeral Charm charm it definitely is a nice card and ill try to find a better slot for it and ill probally have to get Thoughtseize into the deck just worried it hurt my life count to much.

While Thoughtseize does hurt your life total, if you're smart about what you take away with it the 2 life it costs you should be less than the damage that whatever it was you took would've done to you.

kmcree I made a few changes and whats your opinion on the deck now as it stands? I don't want to lose my red because the deck is aslo to have aggressive early creatures that can now be played later with still a deadly effect

Personally I would run at least 2, but most likely 4 Blackcleave Cliffs in place of Dragonskull Summit . This deck could do major damage with an opening hand with 1 land in it, but right now if that one land is a Dragonskull Summit , your first turn is wasted. You can drop and use Blackcleave Cliffs first through third turns no prob. After that, having it come in tapped wouldn't be too bad.

You might also consider adding some mana sinks in if it goes late game and you're sitting on 8 lands out and nothing to do with them.

scrotality definite add the land but a mana sink is not needed when their had is constantly being dumped and you pull out all their duplicates of their key cards. The creature land might be that mana sink though as a 2 of just so I can hit them later with a lot of power

You've got Raven's Crime to make use of late game land draws. I like the deck. Personally, I'm not really sold on the use of cards like Ash Zealot and Vexing Devil in a deck like this. I'm not sure they really fit. But if that's what you're going for and it seems to work for you then that's your decision.

I'm liking this deck more and more, the red aggro may not suit everybodys preference but I see no problem with it (unless the dual red becomes prohibitive).

Suggestion #2: sideboard should include Dreadbore for those stupid money-walkers (Lily and Karn) as well as Rakdos Charm to hate on Splinter Twin crap as well as artifacts. Also now that I look at it you may want to put a bit more removal in the mb as well. I think you are bit heavy on Surgical Extraction type cards anyway so maybe -2 Extirpate +2 Lightning Bolt . You could probably live without Ebony Charm as well unless I'm underestimating it, losing it would give you a full set of bolts. Just my 2 cents anyway, keep up the good work.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what you're doing with Ebony Charm . I would drop it in favor of something like Terminate . I'm not sure you really need Dreadbore . Its sorcery speed, and the walkers mentioned shouldn't really be a problem, as you should be able to Thoughtseize them away no problem.

I agree Terminate is good, but thoughtseize is a sorc as well so in the event that they manage to slip one through this deck may as well fold.

Hm good point ill drop the charm for Hero's Downfall as it is an instant and will get any walker or creature i missed to then be removed completly by either of my instant exiles

SwampHippie im glad your really liking the deck and i was not to worried with any of their walkers being able to go through so i didnt think of kill spells as nessisary but a walker i manage to miss like lily can be deadly so heros down fall can definitly get her out and it would have no problem removing the rest with surgical or extirpate

And kmcree im also glad your enjoying the deck and i choose the vexing devils because they simply are a no win situation card in my deck u either take 4 now or with no awnsers keep taking 4 and ash is simply their because ash is ash.. She can let me use my extirpate and surgical extrations a little more effcectively since she hurts the players for using the graveyard cards like my raven and flashback

I think Ash Zealot is great hate against a lot of modern archetypes. The only reason I didnt use her was because the RR casting cost was a little rough on a three color deck. That said, she doesn't do much other than being a hasty beater against merfolk and discard, for example. I wonder if maybe she would do better in sideboard and have a more general purpose critter mainboard.

scrotality what you mean by sideboard? In general shes good even if her third ability doesnt trigger a 2/2 first pstrike haste for rr is pretty amazing