Not too bad, really like the idea of the deck, good work, and yeah it was 'fairish' before, but the Spell Burst just takes it over the top.
Did have another thought, Wall of Frost seems a bit slow, there are so many other things that you want to do on 3 mana, and it is a double blue as well. I feel that Oona's Gatewarden would take that place nicely, as it is a 1 drop blue defender. Meaning that Oona's Gatewarden into Bloom Tender or Overgrown Battlement is a much stronger play.
September 9, 2014 5:21 a.m.
Miketsw, I like that idea alot. Though, I really like the second ability of Wall of Frost . I think I'll take a look for manasplit defenders. Personally I don't like infect that much (or rather, my friends hate it so much that I don't dare to use it :D) but I think they would be okay with wither.
September 9, 2014 7:05 a.m.
It is a useful ability, but when you look at your 3 drops Axebane Guardian , Staff of Domination and Freed from the Real are all much more important, so do you really want to be dropping a Wall of Frost in place of one of those. (again double blue might be difficult)
I did a filter and unfortunately Oona's Gatewarden is the only 1 drop blue defender in the whole of MTG, let alone Modern legal, and we really want it to be blue to turn on Bloom Tender producing 2 mana straight away.
You are right though, Wither is much more palatable than Infect, (watched a game yesterday where someone turn 2 won with infect in legacy), so sure they would let you get away with that.
September 9, 2014 7:46 a.m.
Very good points once again, Miketsw. I also think that wither can have almost as good effect as Wall of Frost has on opponents when they are unsure should they attack or not. Biggest thing that bugs me with Oona's Gatewarden is that defense stat. But for one mana drop with those abilities it might be too much to ask for more. But yeah, you are right. Oona's Gatewarden is better option for this deck.
September 9, 2014 8:42 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #7
Since The Source Wall takes a more competitive approach, I run Pact of Negation with shocks along with Mana Confluence and Spellskite to mitigate threats to the combo. I would run some buddy lands and City of Brass for a more budget approach. Would still consider Pact. I would also reduce your red X spells. They are overkill. You would rather see Staff of Domination than either with infinite mana because the Staff can grab you your Fireball or Banefire. I also am not a fan of Oona's Gatewarden
September 9, 2014 9:12 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #8
You may also want to consider green infinite mana wincons like Omnath, Locus of Mana and Helix Pinnacle both of which would be easier to get off than Fireball or Banefire if you don't want to run lands that can get you the .
September 9, 2014 10:12 a.m.
From those, only Helix Pinnacle speaks to me as a valid option and that's only because green mana is only you need to have to achieve win con. I think we have a bit different mindset how we like to play (not saying there would be anything wrong with yours, it's just different) :) Also, even that I think I will pass at least for now. All of those cards are somewhat expensive.
September 9, 2014 10:31 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #10
Omnath requires more than ? As you are staying budget your approach is naturally going to be different than mind. Again, my deck is a competitive build and so the economic factors really aren't a worry. Still City of Brass is like 3 bucks now and you're running 6 burn spells with only 4 cards capable of generating red mana. I don't think that is wise, budget or no.
September 9, 2014 10:39 a.m.
PlattBonnay says... #11
have you thought about adding some draw power and library manipulation to help hit your combo more consistently? For modern it would be Serum Visions , for casual you can use Ponder , Preordain , and Brainstorm . Manamorphose might also be good for this deck to help you fix your colours some more and give the deck some more consistency overall.
September 9, 2014 10:41 a.m.
UrbanAnathema, but there is also Drift of Phantasms and with it you can fetch Axebane Guardian if needed. Yes, Omnath would work too but I don't see it giving me anything that adds to the table when compared to those hydras.
PlattBonnay, from those cards Manamorphose could be a valid option. Thanks.
September 9, 2014 10:52 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #13
I wouldn't drop the Hydras for them. I would drop some of the burn spells. Again you currently don't produce enough to realistically support 6 burn spells. Why would you want to have half of your infinite combo potential be inconsequential to 6 of your wincon cards? If you go off you want to win. This could be remedied by running at least a couple lands that can produce you some in a pinch and taking the burn spells down slightly and replacing with wincons that win only on infinite
Just my two cents. Again, I run this build competitively so I understand I might be overly focused on winning as soon as possible.
September 9, 2014 11:08 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #14
Also something to consider with Spell Burst : While the interaction is tempting... Keep in mind you will mostly be using it to protect your combo. (When casting Freed from the Real on your target and before you have access to infinite mana) so you will likely by countering a counter spell or removal spell most of which are 2cmc which makes Spell Burst a pretty expensive spell at 3cmc after already spending 3cmc on Freed. (Which is why I run Pact.) A budget alternative could be Swan Song
September 9, 2014 11:42 a.m.
I think you should drop some of the X spells in favor of early game interaction. While the X spell wins you the game once you have infinite mana, I wonder how many games you've actually lost after getting infinite mana? If you have disruption (like Remand
/Condescend
) you should be able to play out your entire hand and prevent your opponent from doing anything until you draw your actual wincon.
Card draw like Serum Visions and Wall of Roots provides a benefit before you have infinite mana, and then can be easily cycled through to find your wincons. Likewise you should get a 3 CMC X spell like Blue Sun's Zenith in here that you can search for with Drift of Phantasms 's transmute.
September 9, 2014 3:09 p.m.
hubatish, most of the time this deck has been turn 3 or turn 4 win (okay, only been test plays because cards hasn't arrived yet, but still) and this deck can achieve wincon in turn 2.
You do realize that you want me to remove the essential cards and add some other cards that with them I could possibly get the essential cards? As a former poker player I tend to think more about the odds than unnecessary deck synergy. I rather have more x pells in this deck to make sure that I have at least one of them at the beginning of the game (or very early point of the game), thus making sure that when I hit the very first infiniteloop, the game is (most likely) over. Also, why would I ever search for Blue Sun's Zenith if I already have Drift of Phantasms ? With it I can already search the missing card.
September 10, 2014 2:49 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #20
Also no answer to hoses like Suppression Field which completely shuts this deck down.
September 10, 2014 8:33 a.m.
Ah, I though about this when I was going to sleep and now I can see that I didn't take summoning sickness into a count. So yeah, I was wrong. Without it, it would be T2.
September 10, 2014 8:40 a.m.
UrbanAnathema "unless they are mana abilities". It will hinder untapping I guess but it won't shut this deck completely.
September 10, 2014 8:43 a.m.
I appreciate all the help but seriously, you are taking all the fun out of MTG :P
September 10, 2014 8:45 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #24
Freed's ability isn't a mama ability. Would make Bloom Tender need 4 colors and Axebane need three other defenders instead of one to go off. It shuts the combo down.
As for "taking the fun out of mtg" by bringing to light weaknesses and trying to help you make the deck better... That's what this site is supposed to be about. Again, as someone who plays a competitive version of this build with The Source Wall I am more than aware of its strengths and weaknesses. I have covered them as best I can and I was interested in your deck to see how well they could be covered in a more budget environment.
Nevertheless, if you are just looking for applause and no constructive feedback I will refrain. Good luck.
September 10, 2014 9:01 a.m.
I know, that's why I said it would hinder untapping.
And what goes for the second part, this site certainly is about improving deck and I really am grateful about all the help I get. But this is still my deck and it is my build. I gladly take suggestions but when the comments become aggressive just because I don't agree with the suggestions, things are going too far. I have stated that this is a budget deck and not meant for ultra competitive games.
It of course isn't about applause and it is always good to get constructive feedback. By stating "taking the fun out of mtg" I mean that I build decks and play the game just for fun. Completely for having good time with friends. And for what is worth, I said it (taking fun out part) jokingly. The fact that you took it so completely differently, only proves that we just have different sets of mind. I hope this didn't offend you in any way. I also hope you understand the point I'm making.
Aefinn says... #1
Yeaaah... got this whole deck for 65 (shipping included) so I went and bought it straight away.
Only bad thing about this deck is the fact that I know how much hate I will get in our casual games :D
September 8, 2014 4:46 p.m.