Thanks ! To show a deck like that, you have to use deck-large:thedeck into double brackets. Where thedeck is the last part of the url. For mine it would be : dega-scream :
Dega Scream Playtest
Standard*
SCORE: 0 | 1 COMMENTS | 140 VIEWSApril 11, 2014 10:40 p.m.
Viral_Assassin says... #4
Really solid deck! I will be making the name of my deck easily to link. Let me know how the Underworld Connections works out for Monsters. I am currently running Read the Bones but I'm on the fence a out both.
April 17, 2014 6:01 p.m.
Thanks ! I may write a Monsters section to take note of everything I noted for this matchup. What I feel I lack, what can be done without impacting other matchups too much, etc. It's the one matchup against which the solution doesn't obviously appear.
I won't be able to test it until the end of next week but I'll make sure to report how it went.
April 17, 2014 7:34 p.m.
Viral_Assassin says... #6
Awesome, sounds good! You should be able to properly link my deck now, I will keep the name the same :P.
April 17, 2014 9:43 p.m.
Maybe a Resolute Archangel could help to stabilize vs. Abzan? Otherwhise as you already noted, Despise would be the best option vs. Siege Rhino s.
However, I like your build and I am tempted to try Dega/Mardu Control over my Esper Control. Also, you have very nice descriptions and reports! +1 :)
October 6, 2014 11:30 a.m.
I had just another idead, what about Hushwing Gryff ? Also nice vs. devotion.
October 6, 2014 11:32 a.m.
Those are nice ideas, thanks. I am now considering them both, for different reasons.
Hushwing Gryff is obviously a nice answer to Siege Rhino , but it could be sided in against other strategies.
As for Resolute Archangel I like it, not only against Siege Rhino , but for any strategy that is aggressive on the life total. And the thing is that it has its effect no matter what unless it is countered. I will discuss it in my playgroup, still, because 7cmc is always a lot to play.
October 7, 2014 1:03 a.m.
4 Thoughtseize
s are a must in any black deck that plans on playing creatures. With Boros Charm
gone, there is no way you are going to be able to protect your army from destruction effects, and Mardu has absolutely no counters (d'oh). It's the only way (along with Mardu Charm
) you will be able to handle dealing with an early Anger of the Gods
and End Hostilities
(or at least minimize the chance they will wreck your plan). This should also help deal with the whole Siege Rhino
business.
In truth, depending on the decks you are facing, you may want to go a bit aggressive with the discard. Liliana Vess
, Mardu Charm
, Thoughtseize
and Despise
are all highly annoying, so try sideboard and mainboard combinations of them and see how you like the result.
Personally I would stay away from Mana Confluence
- the forced pain is simply not worth it, since we have too few good lifegain effects (Resolute Archangel
is horrible...).
Lastly, not sure why Nyx-Fleece Ram
is here. Since this deck is midrangy, try a combination of Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
and Stormbreath Dragon
and see how they work for you. Most of the times I tried them they overperformed. With the amount of cheap removal at hand you won't have to worry about aggro that much.
October 7, 2014 7:07 a.m.
To be honest, if I wanted to go for a midrange deck, I would have built an Aristocrats one. This is downright control. I want the game to be as long as possible, depending on the matchup. I am the deck with the 2 Anger of the Gods and 3 End Hostilities maindeck, and I will bring down my guys in a heartbeat if I see I won't win a race. I plan on forcing my opponent out of resources, and then, I can play my guys. I can try sooner, but if it fails it's no big deal.
One Mana Confluence is the most one should play in a 3-colors deck. Two will effectively hurt too much, but one is working for me, plus Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth makes it not too bad.
Thoughtseize is one of the best cards in standard, the thing is, it is a meh top deck, especially since Blood Baron of Vizkopa is out (can't lifegain for stupid amounts with protection). Mardu Charm ultimately does help with this attrition if I din't use them before, and I can do that in the draw step. I should definitely try Liliana Vess , though.
Nyx-Fleece Ram is a good life gain effect, and it is very hard for aggro to deal with if they have no removal. The point is, versus Azban, they have the same removals as we do, and if Siege Rhino don't stick longer than our threats, it has done his thing, which is, drain 3 life. The sheep doesn't help with that because of their removal. Resolute Archangel does, because it is an ETBeffect. Now I agree, it's expansive, but if I have to take 12 of rhino drain, which has happened already, I don't straight out reject another life pool, hence the possibility that is Resolute Archangel .
I have history with Stormbreath Dragon , as Iplayed him in a post rotation version of the deck. Basically he was underwhelming and the only thing I remember of him is sniping planeswalkers while Ididn't have a Downfall in hand. Then he took a removal of some sort. He was also good at winning against white decks, but again, Blood Baron of Vizkopa was better at it. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker I feel is too similar to Stormbreath Dragon . His +1doesn't impress me, he can still be exiled, and still downfalled during the opponent's turn. His -3 is underwhelming too. It will remove a creature, then die to the one next to it, especially against aggro. Midrange tend to already be bigger. I'll try a Dragon sometime, the protection might be relevant if I make the opponent discard Hero's Downfall .
October 7, 2014 9:01 a.m.
That's what maximizing the count of Thoughtseize
is about. You want to be able to drain your opponent of threats as soon as possible, and 2 copies will simply not maximize your chance on getting it as soon as possible. Sure, this comes with the increased probability of drawing one later on, but that's the game. No card is good in absolutely any context and against any deck. But Thoughtseize
is the most powerful of proactive "counter"/"removal" you can think of. It hits on turn one and disrupts your opponent from the very beginning. It is the one card that guarantees Rhino doesn't hit the board, it is the one card that guarantees that your creatures are safe from sweepers (or at least lower the chance of a sweeper by making your opponent rely on a topdeck).
As for no creatures having supreme protection, that's the game... We are no longer spoiled with super powerful creatures like AEtherling
, Blood Baron of Vizkopa
and Obzedat, Ghost Council
, and have to rely on relatively cheap threats. That's how absurd removal is right now in standard. I have the very same problem with my control deck right now, namely that threats are just not threatening enough. So all we can do is either compensate for them with burn effects and discard to ensure their protection.
B/W control is the way to go, that's for sure... I'm not 100% sure if red is the correct color to combine with it though. I still have mixed feelings between Mardu and Esper. Mardu is exceptionally good at delivering damage, and has the best sweeper in the format (Anger of the Gods
). Esper has counters however, together with hexproof or difficult to remove creatures (Tromokratis
and Prognostic Sphinx
are both highly relevant, with Pearl Lake Ancient
following, but just not that good with all the exile effects at hand).
I am experimenting right now with mardu tokens to see if it behaves better than the control version... Not sure how this will turn out. Good luck however with those Rhinos and remember, Thoughtseize
and Despise
make really short work of them.
October 7, 2014 9:12 a.m.
Yeah, we also lose life by using Thoughtseize , that's why two are in the sideboard. I guess I could just side in the full playset against Azban, and maybe a bit more of Despise .
I don't mind threats not being threatening enough, control could just win with a 1/1 to be honest. my point was that Stormbreath Dragon was not impressive enough for me when there was BBoV. Now it might be a possibility again (even if Mardu Charm and Stoke the Flames are around).
October 7, 2014 9:54 a.m.
We lose life to Thoughtseize
, true... on the other hand how often did you experiment with 4 copies and ended up casting more than 2 per game? At most I got to play 3, and by then I was able to gain some life with Sorin, or in your case, with Butcher of the Horde
.
You can win with a 1/1 of course as long as it is evasive enough (see Mutavault
being highly successful in control builds).
The problem with requiring self-protective-enough threats is that we do not have many ways to protect our threats. Even aggro decks and especially midrange decks run enough removal to be able to hold off against our threats. Banishing Light
, Hero's Downfall
, Utter End
, Murderous Cut
, Mardu Charm
, Lightning Strike
, Dark Betrayal
, Glare of Heresy
, Stoke the Flames
and the rest of removal is present in many decks.
The whole point of control is:
1. Keep the board clear by running good removal that gives us card advantage (sweepers are particularly good here), or preemptively avoid having to resort to removal by running hand disruption and counters (not an option in Mardu).
2. Put a good threat on the board (hence it doesn't end up countered or stolen from our hand before we get a chance to play it)
3. Keep the threat on the board through a combination of self-protection and reactive protection (counters, making the threat indestructible/hexproof/protected against X etc.)
At least this is how I have seen control work in the standard I've been playing (I don't have that much magic experience so I might be wrong here). So basically stall enough to get that threat, then win with it.
The beauty of AEtherling
was that once it hit the board it was practically impossible to remove for good, so it protected itself really well. Similarly, Blood Baron of Vizkopa
destroyed white/black decks that did not have any blue (Rapid Hybridization
) or red (Mizzium Mortars
) removal at hand to deal with it. Obzedat, Ghost Council
asked for an instant form of removal or it would stick around and do a lot of damage as well as drain life. Mutavault
was a mini-version of it that had the bonus of being Thoughtseize
-proof.
I still haven't found the right control decks to perform so well. And really don't get me wrong here, I love your deck, just like I absolutely adore Mardu builds. I'm just trying to figure out how to handle these control-opponent situations better. That's where I see it might have a problem. Mirror matches are quite nasty.
I'm curious if you tried pinning your deck against my deck and what came out of it. Maybe we could learn how to handle mirror matches even better. Mardu is after all omnipresent.
Shadowflame Dictatorship Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 7 | 14 COMMENTS | 982 VIEWSOctober 7, 2014 10:23 a.m.
I wouldn't know how to consistently win a mirror, considering the quality of removal now. Even gods and walkers are super easy to remove, that's pretty crazy...
Maybe Liliana Vess and Mardu Charm at draw step with a threat on board ? OR ! Cranial Archive seems nice, targeting self. Basically make the game even longer by recycle our own cards while the opponent runs out of relevant cards.
Viral_Assassin says... #1
I like your deck, +1! Also, how did you show off my deck like that? What text stuff do I have to use?
April 11, 2014 9:24 a.m.