Delver of Dimir

Modern ToolmasterOfBrainerd

SCORE: 14 | 39 COMMENTS | 2407 VIEWS


SoggyGecko says... #1

Also, if you can get your hands on them, Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are where you want to be at.

May 6, 2015 10:17 p.m.

Very true for the discard spells. I am hoping for a MM2015 reprint of Inquisition of Kozilek to drop the price a little. I will likely make the switch then, but Thoughtseize is too expensive.

May 6, 2015 10:22 p.m.

Kolanskyman says... #3

I feel like the Delve mechanic is holding you back. You only have have two cards on your main board that benefit from it and you only have Thought Scour to get cards into the graveyard. Thought Scour is not a great draw card as it does not next you any extra cards. Foresee works well if you really need to find a card. Finally, Delve is best abused with the Dredge mechanic.

May 7, 2015 10:21 p.m.

I see your point of how delve could hold me back, but when I first started running Thought Scour I found that it could do a lot more for me than set up delve. The original reason I wanted to run Thought Scour was to combo it with Extirpate because if I can use a combination of Thought Scour and Inquisition of Kozilek to get a combo piece into the graveyard, then I can exile it forever with Extirpate and never have to worry about them comboing off.

But I didn't want to use a card whose only use was against a certain breed of decks where it was very effective but became rather useless in other matchups. I couldn't just sideboard it either because I need 8 cantrips to keep the deck fast and efficient and devoting 4 sideboard slots to 1 card is silly. That's when delve came in.

At that stage of my deck I also found myself needing 4 removal spells but running 4 Dismember just isn't practical and Doom Blade and friends are too restrictive. I didn't want to add a third color, so Murderous Cut caught my eye as an easy to cast removal spell that I already had the support for.

After that Tasigur, the Golden Fang was the next logical include because with only Vampire Nighthawk and Delver of Secrets  Flip I had no heavy hitter that could be played early, hit hard, and give me late game value as well. If I was facing midrange I would always lose due to a lack of substantial early pressure and few powerful late game plays that could stand up to a Siege Rhino or Tarmogoyf. Heck, I even had to use a Dismember to handle their turn 1 Goblin Guide because my creatures could just be burned to death. Tasigur filled a major hole in my strategy that I couldn't pass up.

Because of those interactions I like the delve in my deck. I don't rely on it and I oftentimes hardcast the cards without substantial delving anyway. But I didn't pick Thought Scour to help Taz and Murderous Cut, I picked the latter 2 because of the added synergy with the former.

Now perhaps the delve is holding me back. I could believe it, but at the moment I don't think it is.

I could pull the delve and replace Thought Scour with Dimir Charm like in The Thief Lord, but I didn't like that because paying 2 mana for a card that doesn't replace itself is a little silly. Yes it doubles as a counter and removal against aggro decks, and it is able to set up Delver of Secrets  Flip, but just knowing that turn 3 is the soonest I can ever play Extirpate to shut down their deck is enough to turn me away from it. Because of this I prefer Thought Scour.

Now Dimir Charm is far from the only potential replacement for Thought Scour - you mentioned Foresee but that has too high of a cmc and doesn't do much more than Serum Visions, but I still at the moment prefer Thought Scour because of how it is extremely useful in the mainboard without Extirpate. It is a pretty standard card in delver decks right now because of how powerful Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler. I don't like the angler and I need the removal, so I run Murderous Cut instead. My point is that Thought Scour is a pretty ok card right now that I think deserves a spot.

I am still open to opinions on this though. If there is a better card than Thought Scour please bring it to my attention and if there is a removal spell or big creature that I haven't seen yet that could replace taz or cut, please tell me. Thanks!

May 8, 2015 12:03 a.m.

SoggyGecko says... #5

I think that you should be running at least 4 Mana Leak, and cut back on the number of Countersquall. I feel like it is a far superior counterspell, especially if you are a tempo deck. You should add some number of Remand, too.

May 11, 2015 1:45 p.m.

I like Countersquall because of the 2 life loss. It's basically an upgraded Negate and it helps me race a lot because the 2 life loss is surprisingly relevant. Without red I need all face damage I can do.

I mainly don't have Remand because it's expensive, but I also don't see the value in playing it. Perhaps if I could make them discard their card on my next turn or if I had Snapcaster Mage to cast Remand again, but I can't do either. Remand isn't a very good standalone card in my opinion. I also cannot race very well. I am trying to improve that, but this deck is a tempo that plays like a midrange. It needs 1 more good creature as a 2 of to attack with and I don't know what to run. Perhaps Gurmag Angler but I don't think he is the right card.

May 11, 2015 8:14 p.m.

lithium142 says... #7

Gitaxian Probe would do you more good than Thought Scour in this deck

May 11, 2015 11:49 p.m.

Hmmmm.

I've always known about probe as an option but never really considered it because it just does to little for me. This deck is a little slow for a tempo deck and I don't think Gitaxian Probe would speed it up, but it might. I run Thought Scour for 2 purposes. I don't feel like explaining it so I'll refer you to comment #4 above.

Maybe I could run probe in addition to my already existing cantrips, but I hate paying life and I can already see their hand with Inquisition of Kozilek. I know I don't have to cast it with life, but then paying 1 mana for it at sorcery speed doesn't do much other than burn 1 mana and thin my deck a little.

I'll playtest it and it may turn out to be really good, but I don't see it at the moment. What I think I need is more creatures, but perhaps more deck thinning could be better because it doesn't throw off my balance of creatures and makes sure I draw into cards that will help me, but if I was going to run another cantrip I don't think it would be Gitaxian Probe. I would rather run something that sets up Delver of Secrets  Flip like Index or better yet Dimir Charm.

Thanks for the suggestion though! I'll add it to the maybeboard and play around with it.

May 12, 2015 12:12 a.m.

ohmless says... #9

thinking palace siege for bringing back your creatures or the whip possibly, though with your creatures costing so little I prefer palace siege. +1'ed. sorry I don't have any recommendations for making the deck quicker.

May 13, 2015 1:18 p.m.

Perhaps Palace Siege. It seems a little mana-heavy for modern, but it's one of my favorite cards in standard. Unfortunately it just takes too much mana and too many subsequent turns to gain value off of. In midrange matchup it would be great because it's immune to Abrupt Decay and could do a lot more than Monastery Siege with time, but I run Monastery Siege because it's good against more than just midrange decks. It helps in control and burn, which are not my best matchups.

As for the Whip of Erebos, my Delver of Secrets  Flip doesn't come in flipped so it does almost nothing for me. I also delve all my creatures away usually.

I do have a few open spaces at the moment that I need to fill, but unfortunately I don't think either card does quite enough fast enough. Thanks a lot for the +1 and the comment though! It's great to know people actually have been to my deck.

May 13, 2015 8:07 p.m.

ohmless says... #11

yeah, i didn't think they were fast enough either. GL with the deck!

May 13, 2015 9:19 p.m.

Thanks a lot! Good luck with your decks as well!

May 13, 2015 9:34 p.m.

CastleSiege says... #13

May 17, 2015 1:13 a.m.

Underworld Connections is better in this deck. Phyrexian Arena doesn't have a trigger so it can kill me if I'm low on life and is even worse when I have Liliana, Defiant Necromancer out because without the extra card at the start of the turn I can play my topdeck, +2 lili, then draw another card with no risk of losing it. Thanks for the comment and +1 though!

May 17, 2015 1:19 a.m.

Hello,

I realize you're looking for sideboard, but I feel talking about your delve usage is probably far more relevant. I find each game I'm only able to get 1/2 cheap delve casts off, so it's only worth having a couple cards that utilize the mechanic. I strongly recommend reducing the amount of delve you're running.

I realize this isn't exactly what you're looking for so i'll spend a minute brainstorming some sideboard options.

May 17, 2015 9:41 p.m.

Consider Baleful Strix to even out your mana curve (you're high on 3 and low on 2) instead of some of those Vampire Nighthawk.

May 17, 2015 9:50 p.m.

Baleful Strix isn't modern legal.

May 17, 2015 9:51 p.m.

Sideboard option: Bojuka Bog or some other graveyard annihilation.

May 17, 2015 9:52 p.m.

I may have to consider that card. It doesn't hit my graveyard, so it just might work. I'll think about it. Thanks!

May 17, 2015 10:39 p.m.

Juls317 says... #20

I feel like those Life's Finales in the sideboard are a little on the cute side.

May 19, 2015 1:07 a.m.

True, but here's my current justification:

I feel I need a wrath effect because it is a great stabilizer against a lot of aggro decks. At the very least, I definitely need to have it in the pool of cards I am considering, which is currently my maybeboard and my sideboard.

Based on the meta, I would likely side in a wrath effect for Living End, BW Tokens, Hatebears, Merfolk, Zoo, Soul Sisters, Delver, BGx, and Faeries. That's a lot of decks that could be hit by one card.

But as for the available wrath effects, Life's Finale is not by any means the best, but here is why I chose it over the other options in my colors. The other practical options are Damnation and Crux of Fate.

Damnation is way too expensive. Not a chance.

Crux of Fate is the next best alternative, but I run Life's Finale instead and here's why: The crux doesn't do quite enough. Yes, it's a wrath effect and it should be all I need, but I feel that Life's Finale is better. My deck can stall fairly effectively with a mix of strong creatures, good removal, and decent counters, so I can usually survive until turn 6 without dying, but if I don't stop their deck cold, then I will still lose. Usually if I can survive until turn 5, I can usually survive until turn 6. I have okay life gain and pretty good control elements, but Life's Finale's effect of sending the creatures to the graveyard is crushing. Against some decks, it's almost an auto win and the crux does not have the same power.


Now, I do have a low curve and not a ton of lands, so I might not be able to cast Life's Finale against most decks. Especially not aggro where if I am topdecking only lands, I will lose due to a lack of answers. I think if I don't run finale I won't run a wrath at all, but I don't want to give up on it completely. I think you might be right about it so I will move it to the maybe and move the counters up to the main. I do have a healthy amount of removal as is and strong creatures that can win in combat against most other creatures, so I'm not sure if I need it.

I'll think about it, but thanks for the advice!

May 19, 2015 8:53 p.m.

Fungreatmario says... #22

Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver for the side.

May 21, 2015 2:56 a.m.

Consult the Necrosages makes a great one of. Also Echoing Truth and Vapor Snag. Or perhaps Think Twice? Telling Time? Anticipate?

May 21, 2015 11:35 p.m.

I'll consider the first 3 for the sideboard. They might work and I'll add them to the maybe and look at the matchups where they would help. Thanks for the suggestions! I'm really trying to amass a good list of cards and then see where they are useful and what I need, then build a sideboard from it.


As for the drawing spells, I'll address them separately.

Think Twice: I know some people swear by it, but I tried it for a while and hated it. I make the most of a lot of my turns and usually don't have extra mana to cast it for 'free'. Even if I save for counters and then don't use them, I'd much rather cast Thought Scour with the extra mana because it helps my delve spells. And I never used the flashback because I already use the graveyard a ton with my delve and want to freely exile without regrets.

Telling Time: A worse Serum Visions, but at instant speed. The instant speed is definitely something to consider, but the value that visions provides in comparison is enough for me to accept sorcery speed as just fine. If I flip 2 cards I don't want (not uncommon at all when I'm digging for a card), I can put them on bottom and have more mana available to cast the card I drew. As much as I like instant speed, it isn't super important for drawing cards because I cast all of my creatures at sorcery speed anyway. I have counters but don't rely on them for tempo as much as a true delver. My deck is just plain slower. Because of that I don't gain from instant speed downgrades.

Anticipate: A worse telling time. It can't even set up a Delver of Secrets  Flip.

If I was going to ever replace Thought Scour, it will likely be for Dimir Charm.

Thank you for the comment and +1 though! I definitely need to consider the first 3 for the sideboard!

May 22, 2015 12:13 a.m.

demonicpower says... #25

So I am awful at Modern, I don't know a lot of cards however I do think 8 delve cards is a few too many, it's up to you to find a good replacement but I think you might want to drop the Gurmag Anglers. I know you have Liliana as a way to discard but you don't want to delve away too much, otherwise you'll have nothing good to bring back with Tasigur.

May 22, 2015 1:49 a.m.

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