alexthegreat38 says... #2
1) Hi, I get the confusion with the whole "shrouded" thing. The idea was that it's "destruction" (i.e. temporarily massive creatures) that they can't do anything about. Usually the flavor for "unblockable" has to do with stuff being shrouded or invisible. I'll change it though, and maybe include something to make it clear what the deck is actually about.
2) You mean in the description?
3) I'm glad you think it's viable, I included the Turn Aside s in the sideboard to deal with that kind of thing. Do you have other ideas on that front?
September 10, 2014 10:42 a.m.
yes, in the description. It makes it way easier to see what Combos are doing. Good fixes. I still think your title could use some work to accurately describe the deck and also to make it seem interesting so people check it out. I'm seldom fully pleased with any title, though. It's better now. +1
Deck name ideas off the top of my head:
Momentary GreatnessDeceptive MonstersInstant Success
September 10, 2014 11:04 a.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #4
I was looking at all that New Phyrexia stuff that has the "pay 2 life" option instead of paying mana. Specifically I saw Mutagenic Growth , Gut Shot , and Gitaxian Probe . Would any of those be worth it in here? It would let me bypass mana constraints to just have a higher volume of instants/sorceries (which I want). Not sure if there's anything that would be a good idea to take out at this point.
September 10, 2014 7:10 p.m.
Would it though? Just because you don't have to use mana to play those spells doesn't mean you don't need the same amount of mana to play your other spells as you did before.
Gitaxian Probe is basically a free draw card. Ok, but in line with your deck. I don't think so. I suppose You get to look at your opponents hand, which is akin to Scry, but I don't think either is terribly useful, Scry the more useful of the two. (My logic is that seeing what you're opponent is packing is seeing whether or not you are likely to win - it doesn't change the match up much, you're either golden or screwed.
Gut Shot is pretty weak. What are you going to do with that? Kill a Typhoid Rats Turn 0? I don't see how it interacts with the deck for any synergy.
Of the three, I'd say Mutagenic Growth would be the most useful. This would be more so if there was some card like Overwhelming Stampede in the deck. (which I don't think is needed, just pointing out another way temporary bigness might gain synergy)
I'd also say that, if I were you, I'd just build it and test it a bunch and then think about what cards I loved playing and which ones fizzled and work from there. You don't have a lot of defenses - you might find you want that life. Or you might find you don't need it at all.
September 11, 2014 2:06 a.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #6
Some cards you should consider :
-Mizzium Skin
to deal with removals and abilities that target
-Sleight of Hand
/Serum Visions
/Peer Through Depths
to dig up the card that you need to kill
About the sideboard :
Vandalblast
to deal with Spellskite
I often play UR kiln fiend, my favorite deck in modern, i can link you my decklist of you want some ideas (and i also play monored kiln fiend, RG kiln fiend, RB kiln fiend...) :p
+1, but I think your deck can be even better
September 11, 2014 12:33 p.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #7
Oh, and to answer your question, Mutagenic Growth
and Gitaxian Probe
are awesome for your deck, get them, that's good stuff :3
Gut Shot
isn't that useful, its only utility is to kill a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
, Flame Slash
would be a better blast, to deal with Spellskite
, Eidolon of Rhetoric
and Ethersworn Canonist
, that ruins your strategy
September 11, 2014 12:49 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #8
Thanks! I would definitely be interested in seeing your UR Kiln Fiend deck for ideas if nothing else. At this point, I have the non-creature spells split up into three categories: make things unblockable (8 cards), burn (8 cards), and pump/double strike (8 cards). I love the acceleration you suggested, especially Peer Through Depths , which would be fantastic in this deck. I'm just not sure what to take out. Any ideas on what I could switch out for those cards? I can always do some play testing of course to find out on my own.
Also, I do already have Flame Slash in the sideboard if I end up playing something creature-heavy. Do you think the Guttural Response s and the Turn Aside s in the sideboard are worth it to protect against a control/removal deck? Sorry for all the questions.
September 11, 2014 6:56 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #9
Oh, and since you brought up sideboard artifact destruction, I do have a Shattering Spree , which is probably better than Vandalblast in some situations. It does cost a lot of red though, but the replicate is do-able if there's only two or three things I'm looking to get rid of.
September 12, 2014 12:02 a.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #10
Yup, Turn Aside
counter to removals, and Guttural Response
is excellent too, I play 1 Turn Aside
maindeck, always useful :p
I think you can remove 2 Guttersnipe
and 4 Magma Jet
, they aren't THAT good in this deck, there's better cards to play
Yes, Shattering Spree
is strictly better than Vandalblast
, you can go for it :D
Here is the link to my UR kiln fiend Getting chumpblocked is for nubs, you can check it out, it's not perfect, but I think it is quite optimal :p
If you have others questions, ask me :p
September 12, 2014 12:49 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #11
I've been play-testing a version that looks like this:
x4 Shivan Reef x4 Sulfur Falls x7 Mountain x5 Island
x4 Kiln Fiend x4 Nivix Cyclops
x4 Lightning Bolt x4 Magma Jet x4 Mutagenic Growth
x4 Distortion Strike x4 Artful Dodge x4 Assault Strobe x4 Gitaxian Probe x4 Sleight of Hand
I play tested it 20 times, and barring removal or control it had a winning kill combo by turn 5 80% of the time. I did just trade my friend for some Apostle's Blessing , I might throw that in there or sideboard it at the very least, because I suppose it works to protect your stuff and make it unblockable all at once (depending on what colors they're playing of course). But other than that the Gitaxian Probe s and Sleight of Hand s work beautifully to accelerate things along, and the Mutagenic Growth is very good, I can get a killing combo Assault Strobe + Distortion Strike + Mutagenic Growth with only two mana instead of needing three. That means I can work with fewer lands, or if I have three mana out, I can play a Sleight of Hand to find that one card I need to complete the combo, while still pumping my creature(s) because it's a sorcery.
This version is definitely more efficient, but at this point I ordered the cards to construct the version that's on the deck list right now. I'll have to figure out how to get the Probes and Sleights, but I'll work on it.
September 13, 2014 11:38 a.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #12
Actually just updated the deck list. Thoughts?
September 13, 2014 11:45 a.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #13
Well, there's some improvement compared to your old decklist :P
I suggest you to replace Distortion Strike
with Apostle's Blessing
September 13, 2014 11:53 a.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #14
What if my opponent has creatures of multiple colors (e.g. one green creature and one white creature) on the field? Apostle's Blessing doesn't help that much then unless I'm playing against control/removal. Additionally, Distortion Strike 's rebound the next turn (for free) is very helpful in case I don't have an Assault Strobe for a one-turn kill (the rebound, combined with whatever else I play the next turn, will definitely allow me to finish them off if I wasn't able to before).
Apostle's Blessing is better in some situations, but I'm not convinced that it's all-around better to the point where I should main board it in place of one of the deck's cornerstone cards.
I am curious to hear though, in what situations has Apostle's Blessing helped your UR Kiln Fiend deck? There may be something I'm missing here. I'm not trying to argue or call you stupid or anything I'm just genuinely interested as to why you think it's better. Thanks!
September 14, 2014 1:54 a.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #15
Apostle's Blessing
is all around better simply because almost all modern decks have removals or control, but it also depends of your local meta
Maybe not a playset, but you absolutly need either Mizzium Skin
or Apostle's Blessing
maindeck, try replacing something else if you're not confident with getting Distortion Strike
out
For instance : if you don't have some of them, you CAN'T win against Burn, UR Delver and a matchup like splinter twin or merfolk can be way more difficult than it could be
September 14, 2014 12:12 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #16
Made some more changes:
Did some playtesting and mainboarded 3 Apostle's Blessing and 2 Mizzium Skin with enough in the sideboard to get playsets of both if necessary. Put in Faithless Looting cause it's the best card draw I have right now besides the Gitaxian Probe s, but I will definitely replace those with Sleight of Hand , Brainstorm , Serum Visions , or something better once I get my hands on it. I decided Izzet Charm is also nice for the utility it gives, including card draw if needed. Additionally, I decided to put 2 Armed / Dangerous back in the deck, because the double strike is what really enables my Fiends/Cyclopses to kill with a single attack. Took out the Magma Jet (was only ever useful if I had absolutely nothing else to do on turn 2) to enable these changes.
I'm not sure if the changes are super beneficial to the deck yet, but I suppose we'll see. Thoughts, anyone?
September 19, 2014 6:25 p.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #17
With the release of KTK, I suggest you to replace Izzet Charm
with Stubborn Denial
And you should consider getting a one drop, the best for this kind of decks are Delver of Secrets
Flip
and Flamekin Harbinger
:p
October 1, 2014 5:12 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #18
Oooh, I forgot about Flamekin Harbinger , I do still have a few of those lying around from Lorwyn I think. I also have a playset of Delvers that I might throw in at some point! Also, I feel like the Stubborn Denial is good only if the Kiln Fiend /Nivix Cyclops getting bigger when it's played counts towards the monstrous. Are we sure that's how it works?
October 1, 2014 9:01 p.m.
Yggdrasil60 says... #20
This is how it works : you cast Stubborn Denial
, it triggers Kiln Fiend
's ability, which resolves first, so when Stubborn Denial
resolves, you have a creature with at least 4 power in play
Source : http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194912
October 2, 2014 12:46 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #21
Okay, I fielded the question on Wizards' Community forums and got the same response. For now I'll probably throw it in the sideboard in place of Dispel , I play the Izzet Charm for mostly the card draw it seems anyways. To be fair, I haven't playtested it a whole lot against other modern decks so Stubborn Denial will likely end up in the main board at some point.
Looks like TappedOut is telling me Brainstorm is banned in Modern. If this is true I'll cry, but it's not on WotC's official ban list right now, so I'm assuming it was once banned, has since been un-banned, and TappedOut just hasn't kept up?
I'm seeing a few other cards in Khans that would be fantastic if they weren't above the curve. Dig Through Time is amazing and could be good in here if the opponent manages to prevent the damage from my swing without killing the attacker; I'd probably have enough instants/sorceries in the graveyard at that point to delve 4 to 6 of the colorless. Problem is, it's so expensive that that is literally the only situation in which it would be playable, so it's probably not worth it.
Also found Barrage of Boulders to be a beast in a Temur draft deck, and it would be great here if it weren't just above the curve. I feel like it would be playable in here with a CMC of 2, but more often than not 3 will eat up all my mana for the turn, and my Fiends/Cyclopses won't be nearly big enough for the kill.
Doesn't look like any of the other "Ferocious" stuff is even worth looking at for the deck, unfortunately.
On another note, if I don't end up playing any one-drops (or maybe even if I do), do you think Temple of Epiphany is worth it? I was trying to avoid come-in tapped stuff, but if it's in my opening hand it would be a solid turn 1 play.
Thoughts?
October 4, 2014 10:12 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #23
So why isn't it on here:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrmodern
October 4, 2014 11:15 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #24
OH OH is it cause it's one of those cards that they reprinted in a Duel Deck/Commander but not in an actual set? That makes me really sad
October 4, 2014 11:18 p.m.
alexthegreat38 says... #25
I tend to assume that if it the card has a "modern" (post 8th-edition) look to it, it's Modern legal. Ah well, I'm looking for Serum Visions to play in it anyways
kamarupa says... #1
1) How is anything "Shrouded?" ("Shroud" is an ability akin to Hexproof. This deck has none). Perhaps you mean that the "Destruction" isn't obvious? I suggest using a different term than "Shroud" as it is misleading and therefore others are less likely to comment, etc.
2) You should using formatting to link your cards.
3) Yes, I think it's viable. Major weakness I see is Removal.
September 10, 2014 9:29 a.m.