You know what amazes me? You play 8 fetchlands, which anybody could think that's actually crazy because everybody knows that they don't provide deck thinning in EDH, BUT you managed to adjust the deck, together with the ramp spells to ACTUALLY and I think incredibly(!), to be able to make the deck slimmer. If you ask to anybody at my place they would say "More than three fetchlands for a 3 color edh? You must be a crazy one".Great work.

Lilbrudder if this card suits your tastes, and you don't find it too expensive for its mana cost, I'd like to suggest you Bring to Light. I defenitly want to try it in my list.

Thank you. I like bring to light alot. It was recently cut from the list because I needed to lower my cc, but its a very good card for Leo.

Lilbrudder The Derevi is almost completely "optimized" when compared against lists on cEDH except slightly more optimized for our playgroup. Here's a list I consider far stronger than Derevi for stax http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/flies-in-the-web/#Tan

I admit BUG doesn't have strong win conditions but when the entire table is lower curve and you don't necessary have the most mana Helm of Awakening I still hold is fairly awful. In most of your arguments, you assume that you've already wheeled away their hand; however, in most games I've played, it is not playing to win more but playing to win from a less advantageous position. I agree SDT is probably stronger than I give it credit for but in a deck with this many wheels and tutors, it is far from necessary.

With respect to Summer Bloom, I haven't done extensive testing, but my playstyle with this list is also to wheel aggressively as I run 32 lands and still feel short on mana. My games do not usually end on turn 3-4 unless I'm extremely lucky as I will usually have been slowed to a snail by those turns. I understand that this card is definitely powerful when stax isn't heavy in the playgroup but I think our differentiating playgroups make a heavy impact on the cards we favor. For example, I'm a fan of Dark Petition over Bring to Light because it's more versatile in this list when the game is more stalled and I know players are holding CS or removal.

Saying Bob is strictly better than Baby Jace is wrong on my part for sure but after testing, Bob has faired stronger than Baby Jace by a significant amount. Looting vs drawing is a large distinction from my experience. Baby Jace is definitely more versatile but when there are multiple creature based decks are the table, he's fairly susceptible to dying the turn he flips.

Finally, if you consider Worldly Tutor a dork fetcher, I think you should consider Green Sun's Zenith. It's definitely worse at being a utility creature fetch but automatically allows you to Bloom Tender on t2 any sometimes t1.

Also any thoughts on Snapcaster Mage? Maybe better in a more midrange-ish version? Has a lot of utility.

Thabk you for posting the list. Ill check it soon. Yeah these are meta differences to be sure. My games occassionally end turn 3-4 but turn 6-7 is far more common. Rarely will the table be shut down except if its by me getting a hand lock I am usually the guy trying to disrupt other decks who are going for an early combo. I am rarely getting slowed to a trickle by more than one player and usually that guy is getting some hate from the rest of the table. Worldly tutor is a bloom tender, archivist and notion thief fetcher. Its probably a card I will replace soon. GSZ is far too limited given my lack of good green creatures. I like snapcaster mage. It has gone in and out of my deck at different times.

Lilbrudder what about a Beastcaller Savant?

thedrawnpain tldr: That card is legit awful.

Beastcaller Savant Pros and Cons.

Pros:

1. Has incredibly marginal utility in allowing a T2 Leovold with a specifically crafted hand. (Not even sure this is true. Also not sure T2 Leovold is right in many scenarios.)

Cons:

1. Cost 2 mana

2. Produces 1 mana.

3. Can only cast creature spells in a deck with only 7-10 creatures with half of them being dorks.

4. Haste is a useless keyword that can be replaced by any 1 mana dork.

Also every edh list known to man runs as many fetches as possible. Not sure where you got the idea that fetchlands are bad in any format ever.

Fetches do not, EVER, thin your deck in any statistically significant way. But they color-fix when paired with Shocks and ABURs, which is why people play them.

Lilbrudder Thoughts on the new card Paradox Engine?

iamyoona: I think it will be fantastic in the right deck. It REALLY helps Azami (but still probably not enough to bring her back to tier 1) and any general with a good mana sink or activated ability. In my elfball leo deck it is essentially an autoinclude once I dust it off and update it. It also is worthy of testing in my Thrasios dramatic scepter artifact storm deck due to the high concentration of nonland permanent ramp I use. This deck is not a great fit since I run a mixture of ramp sources, Leo himself does nothing with infinite mana, and this is not an all in storm deck.

Lilbrudder take a look at Piracy this time Ibam pretty sure it's worth it.

Thats a cool card, but can't my opponents tap down thier lands in response to this spell to rob me of the effect? I suppose it would work as a pseudo silence if I do it during my first main phase then try to do my business in the second main phase. Either way I fear the sorcery speed double blue makes the card more of a casual trick.

Agreed. The potential table silence effect from it is pretty cool though. Making them tap all their lands in response, go to second main, do whatever you want. There's situations where that wins you the game. Not sure if it's worth putting in just for that though.

Lilbrudder the fact is, if me, or the friend that suggested me this card, am/is correct, that IF it resolves, it is YOU that have priority. Therefore you are allowed to tap lands before your opponents can tap them, since tapping for mana is not an action that goes on the stack, are you following what I am trying to saying? So in the case it resolves, you are allowed to take all the mana produced by your opponents' Lands that you can tap, for the fact that you have priority.

Well the real question is why would anyone let it resolve without tapping their own mana first. Basically, you're playing this card hoping that your opponents make a mistake in order to get main effect of the card. That's never a good starting point imo.

Second, I asked judges about the whole priority thing and they were in agreement that if you somehow manage to resolve Piracy with an opponent still having untapped land, you basically have access to all of it. The opponent cannot prevent you from tapping and gaining the mana.

Noctem You are right, but every opponent that is not tapping lands BEFORE the resolution of the card, and it's not doing this by mistake, is actually BETTING on someone to have a counter spell. Am I right? I think that's also something true. Because probably everyone that hasn't a counter spell is likely to wanting to do something with his/her untapped lands. Or at least it would be like wise from us to assume it. Two times out of three (perhaps even 3 if you consider that you are baiting a counterspell is good for you in a specific situation) you are getting something good for you: 1- getting a silence of everyone except you, 2-countered (worst thing), 3- loot all the mana. Just this, players can't ask before tapping or not "does someone have a counterspell?" it would be against the rules. Tell me what you think, I am liking this exchange of opinions :)

Far as I am aware there is no rule stating communication between players isn't allowed. Asking if someone is going to counter the spell is not against the rules afaik.

Yes, true again, but I guess this is a particolar kind of interaction: it's about information. It's like taking an action basing on informations you are not supposed to posses yet. I mean: imagine to be the dude that counters Piracy, perhaps it would be fine and ideal for you to have the others players getting tappedout before playing your counter spell. You could be the next player in the turns row and you just play your counter to break our strategy. And it could be let's say Azami, for example, ready to combo next, and you got all your enemies tappedout. This could be perfectly something you want. A man in my community got a warn because he bluffed about playing a Liliana that he hasn't in hand at a Pptq. I think you are legit to ask to all about deciding if tap or not only before they communicate about countering or not. Obtaining informations in a way such as this is like, to make a very exaggerated example, peeping the card you are about to draw before to officially concede or the middle card of your deck while shuffling.

Ok, i take my words back a bit: reflecting make me say that people talking is something usual, but not something that hapoens always anyway. But still I see a spell that baits a counter or make you have a huge advantage. What if I have a counter as well? Every case is different. You can assume that people have a counter for each spell you play. Still this Piracy will be more useful in some cases than let's say Cabal Ritual. This card is misunderstood while it's good AND making 2 things at the same time. As long as it will see low play due to it's not immediately understanding gameplay it will never be tried enough. And still this will be consided a bad suggestion because the counter reason. "This card is bad because somebody has a counter for it" Wow, impressive argument. There are only two case scenarios: You get countered or get a huge amount of mana # AND getting all your enemies tappedout.

Final thing: I don't want to fight anybody. I think just that it's wrong to call this card "situational", Carpet of Flowers is a card even more situational, in my humile opinion.Just... Piracy is a good card which does not base itself on others' error. I will playtest it for some times and then report back. I will try to provide an objective verdict on the value of it, and on which it will possibly be better analyzed, for the sake of our Leovold. I hope that I did not sound overall aggressive, and that you all do not impulsively analyze this card whitout trying it first. The process of trial and error is what, after all, leads innovation. And right now there isn't a single bad reason to mark this card as bad inside this deck.

The card certainly has potential. Autumn's Veil is a somewhat similar card that served me well in the past. Perhaps Piracy can do some work here. People make bad decisions in magic games all the time and the fact it requires opponents make an uncertain decision, kind of like Intuition. Worst case its a slightly more expensive and less conplete Silence, but the upside exists. Ill give it a try and let you know what I think.

On another note, I am still not happy with where the deck is. Leo is much worse than tasigur as a pure storm commander but he is too threatening to go all in with the early lock strategy without running alot of protection like Spellskite. The helm combo is great at times but too inconsistent for my liking.

I honestly think the "perfect" build for Leo needs one more build around me card like paradox engine (which will be great for thrasios and Tasigur). Hopefully the new set gives the deck a bit more direction

I tried using Aetherflux Reservoir as a sub to Tendrils of Agony in my helm combo and I think it is the one causing inconsistency. I am also finding it hard to get enough storm counts without Future Sight in play. It seems to rely too much on luck.

I like Paradox Engine. It seems to have a lot of potential when used alongside Future Sight and Reservoir but again, it will still rely on some luck and a deck with a low ave cmc to get the storm counts needed to win.

Megalomania: Thank you for the update. I have been testing paradox engine and dramatic scepter for thrasios and I have never been more excited about a build. Im not convinced this strategy fits with Leo but I think a dork and mana rock base like this would be the required starting point:

Paradox Scepter Thrasios

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

4 COMMENTS | 27 VIEWS

I would appreciate any feedback anyone is willing to provide me. I have hopes this may become the strongest Thrasios build. It plays like Leo on meth. It also feels stronger than other Thrasios archetypes I have tried (hermit druid; boonweaver; eggs)