Timetwister is the best wheel in the deck, but you could substitute it with Time Reversal, Time Spiral or Jace's Archivist without a dramatic decrease in power. The same goes for other super expensive cards like Imperial Seal. The $1000 version of this deck would be only slightly worse than this version to be honest.

What would the $1000 deck look like? Do you happen to have a link?

Yooniverse: Even though the price says $1600, when I entered this into tgcplayer for a mass entry it came out to $1200 ish dollars. Getting the cards over time from multiple buyers could maybe get you down to a $1000 if you are crafty.

Dirty cheap bastard

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

0 VIEWS

Essentially all the expensive cards are gone but the deck functions closely to the $4000+ version

I replaced my expensive mana rocks (ex. Mana Crypt) with extra land per turn cards Burgeoning and more lands.

I replaced my expensive tutors, counterspells, and wheels (ex. Imperial Seal; Timetwister; and Force of Will with vastly cheaper options. While the deck is weaker in many ways, not by that much. The only thing I didnt downgrade is the mana base. That is the essential factor in keeping the deck fast and consistent. I literally just threw this together so more refinememt would be necessary to optimize this version.

Ah thank you. From what I see, laboratory maniac is your sole win con. I mean yes you can lock them out and beat them with the mana dorks, but is there space for any other win cons? Anything you could cut to create more win cons? Or would the deck just be less powered then?

The only other win condition that fits easily in this particular deck at the moment is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to hard lock with puzzle box and Leo. Stax locks are a pretty viable win condition in my estimation. Its slow and and can be downright cruel, but if your playing Leo you are already are kind of a dick :-). locking people out of their hand the rest of the game is gg as long as you have a board advantage, which can be ensured with Cyclonic Rift. My friend Megalomania has an excellent staxish version that primarily wins via lockdown

The Lock

Commander / EDH Megalomania

SCORE: 3 | 15 COMMENTS | 787 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

One of Leo's weaknesses is that he doesn't actually support many win conditions besides Laboratory Maniac so people often choose between Hermit Druid and Doomsday. Some like sonnet666's excellent brew use both , but his focus is getting a hand lock asap.

Leovold, Because Everybody Else Is Doing It

Commander / EDH* sonnet666

SCORE: 2 | 1 COMMENT | 201 VIEWS

I feel BUG storm is strictly worse than grixis storm and slower at getting a hand lock than mana dorks and extra land per turn cards, but having Tendrils of Agony as a backup win condition is really nice. Storm builds also are great since they suppport other compact win conditions such as Candelabra of Tawnos + Capsize + High Tide and Future Sight + Helm of Awakening .

Wow, thanks for the explaination. Sorry, final question for now. There is a new card in kaladesh that is 1U instant called Dramatic Reversal. It untaps all nonland permanents. Could you see this being highly viable in this deck considering the mana dorks and rocks?

The card certainly has potential but probably not in this build. Most the time it would function like a Cabal Ritual, but its certainly worth testing. Thank you! I will definitely include it in my elfball storm/stax Leo prototype with a card like Opposition.

Ran across Dark Deal and added it to my list. Are you purposely not using it because you already have enough wheel effects? I don't have the budget for Timetwister so i'm glad I can substitute it with Dark Deal.

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of Dark Deal. Yes it hurts my opponents, but it also cost me two cards, whereas most the other wheels will either keep me where I'm at cardwise or allow me to completely replenish my hand. It's not a bad budget alternative and it may eventually prove to be worth a spot given it can cripple my opponents for 3 mana. Please let me know how it does for you.

Yooniverse: on second thought I may try out your suggestion. What do you all think of a possible alternative win condition of Dramatic reversal + Isochron Scepter ? There are a handful of playable cards I could win the game with infinite untaps and mana. I am using it in an elfball creature storm deck and its pretty nasty. Scepter is far from useless on its own and Dramatic reversal is at worst a Cabal Ritual most games. It also ups my artifact count and gives Tezzeret the Seeker and Transmute Artifact more good targets.

In other news, I have made some significant progress on an elfball version of Leo based on flluid's elf tribal brew.

Check it out:

Elf God

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

21 VIEWS

While it is worse in a lot of ways than my control build it actually has some pretty significant strengths as well. I'm pretty sure elfball can be strong tier 2 material with Leo at the helm. He's definitely a significant upgrade over Momir Vig, Simic Visionary. Comments and criticisms are most welcome.

Oh my god, I am so sorry for not responding to this. I haven't logged in tapped out for so long. Anyways, I like this. With this idea in play, wouldn't a card like exsanguinate or villanous wealth be good with it then?

Its all good man. My only issue with that is neither are great outside the combo. Ideally I would want a really compact win condition like what tasigur has in Reality Shift and Beast Within. I'm definitely feeling the need for a second cheap but effective win condition besides labman. He is literally such a hate magnet that I want to be able to bait people with him and then kill the table with scepter combo. If I add scepter I will probably have to add baby jace and jace's archivist. Maybe even freaking yisan, but I really hate him outside his own deck. That also necessitates adding worldly tutor to tie this game plan to the rest of the deck.

I am thinking jace for snapcaster is a slam dunk, but I am struggling with other cuts. Any ideas?

Sorry for the stagnation. I have been working on other projects and need to refresh this list to support new findings. I would appreciate any feedback from your experiences playing against Leo.

Then, what about psychosis crawler? Even if you do not have a lockdown, if you happen to get wheels or teferi's puzzle box. It just does some work.

Its a possibility. I have found people get out of Leo locks given enough time and I am hoping to kill them within a turn or two.

My stax build hasn't been working as well as I had hoped. I have decided to scrap it in favor of the storm combo I use in my Oona deck. The wheel effects allow me to keep momentum after strong openings and kind of help set up my enabler, Insidious Dreams. It has been winning a lot more games than my previous build.

I'm sorry to hear stax didnt work for you. It was a really cool idea. Storm is quite powerful. I am somewhat tempted myself to try out storm as it would be nice to have a second game ender. Please keep me posted and I'll creep on over to your deck and give you some unsolicited advice :-)

Thanks. I just couldn't find a consistent way of closing games despite maintaining board control over several turns. How is your build faring? Have you considered using cards like Read the Runes to keep momentum after good starts/fast locks? That seems to be the main issue I keep running into no matter what adjustments I make.

How does the Doomsday plan workout for you? I just ordered a few cards for it, and I'm a little skeptical about it, so I thought I would ask a pro :p

Megalomania: Read the Runes may be great in my Breya deck since I can use its sacrafice trigger for worldorger dragon combo. Thank you for informing me that this card exists. For this deck with DD I can usually win before people can revover from the hand lock. Running out of gas is rarely an issue as I can keep wheeling until I find what I need. The issue I have been facing is decks with lots of spot removal can eventually make Leo too expensive to recast and I have to play the game with my opponents having a hand. Its truly dreadful :-) I also badly need a secondary win condition besides labman, but I have yet to find one I like. Once I finish my Breya primer I plan to overhaul the deck with fresh eyes.

EnderPlaysCompetitiveMTG: Lol I am no pro but thank you anyways :-) The DD plan works great as long as I can use my go to pile. With a cantrip in hand and Leo in play DD essentially reads pay you win the game. Unfortunately sometimes I lose a piece of my pile to exile which makes it much more difficult to end the game in a turn. For that reason I am considering adding either Predict or Ideas Unbound back into the deck for backup pieces. The other issue is puzzlebox. It messes up DD piles considerably which can cause all kinds of headaches. Jace's Archivist and Whispering Madness is great with jumbled or poorly constructed piles so I will need to make some adjustmenta to my build to reflect these insights

If you are running a storm varient, you could do [ tendrils of agony ]. It can be recurres with yawgwill, remand and unsubstansiate on your combo turn and over all feels safer in a competitive meta imo. Is there a reason so many people like the aetherfulx more now that i am missing?

From what I can tell the Aetherflux Reservoir kills with a lower storm count and passively provides alot of extra life for the occassional huge Ad Nauseam and Necropotence. Tendrils is harder to cast and needs to be cast after everything else. Reservoir feels much better with yawgwin than tendrils. This is pure theorycrafting, but that is why I am testing it.

Provided that your life total stays above 31, Aetherflux Reservoir only requires a storm count of 15 to gain you 120 life, which is enough to dome a 4 player pod. Normally though you will want to gain more in order to avoid a burn spell or other forms of damage. That being said however, since Aetherflux Reservoir sticks on the field every turn you will have a passive life gain source.

Tendrils of Agony on the other hand does not care what our life total is starting at, and so a turn prior to comboing off we can take that huge Necropotence, or on the turn of comboing, Ad Nauseam. The big downside to Tendrils of Agony is the high storm count needed in order for it to win. Ignoring life gain decks, worst case scenario everyone is at 40 life. This means that we will need of a storm count of either 60 or 30 with Yawgmoth's Will. RandomGenesis brings up good points on the ability of recurring Tendrils of Agony which is definitely something to keep in mind due to it being much easier in your current build then recurring Aetherflux Reservoir in case of it's destruction.

I know that you have storm as more of a side option to win, but I'd think that with either of the two storm wincons that you decide to go with to think about adding in some kind of Eternal Witness/Regrowth effect. They will not only help in the case of easing a Tendrils of Agony/Aetherflux Reservoir win, but can get you back other important cards in the case of going for a Laboratory Maniac win.

Why are you running Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip? Isn't he just a slow Snapcaster Mage?

Yes and no. For this deck I prefer him to snapcaster since I can drop him early to draw fire away from Leo. Over the course of a game he can loot a couple times and then flashback for 0 as opposed to 1U for snapcaster. His looting ability can also assist getting my topdeck tutor targets into my hand.