Catgroove: I have Regrowth, but given the way this deck is constructed Eternal Witness is essentially an overcosted spell. At this juncture I am trying to get as low to the ground as possible. My primary recursion spell is Yawgmoth's Will.

Lilbrudder: Sorry about that, I completely missed Regrowth when I made my comment.

I don't know if it's just my luck or I'm prioritizing the wrong hands to keep, but while I have found it consistent to get a hand lock afterwards I'm just sitting around until I get more gas. This isn't a problem when I have Teferi's Puzzle Box, but on more then one occasion I've Timetwister/Windfall on turn 3 and then had nothing to do for so long that other people actually got to play Magic.

I know that it would be at the top of our curve, but how do you feel about Future Sight or Magus of the Future? You already have Helm of Awakening and Sensei's Divining Top for that combo. It acts as pseudo card draw. Personal favorite part is that if you have the combo out then you can win on your Doomsday turn with 4 counter spells added to the pile. I know that you plan to hand wipe before Doomsday so this won't be relevant that often but it's something to think about if you just have to for Doomsday.

Catgroove: Its all good man. I have to say I have experienced the unlucky draw 7 a few times myself. Its a difficult balance between draw effects and control elements and with all the recent changes to the deck I may have too few ways to keep the deck rolling. Future Sight is definitely on my radar, but so is Dark Petition. Being a combo piece helps, but I am wary of adding more expensive cards. I will test it and let you know.

If you're gonna use Future Sight, might as well use Insidious Dreams. :)

I haven't exactly figured out how your storm combo works but the Future Sight combo can sub for Doomsday while the LabMan can sub for Tendrils of Agony, assuming you'll be using the same combo I use in my deck.

Megalomania: How do you stack your dream piles?

Future Sight (top), Helm of Awakening (next), SDT (last). You can add more cards to the pile (countermagic after SDT, Mana Crypt after Future Sight, etc.) but you'll need more cards to pitch to Insidious Dreams.

Megalomania: This seems very strong as a backup win condition. I will try it out. Thank you (and thank you too Catgroove)! I was thinking of this combo when I suggested Labman for you. I think together they form the strongest 1-2 punch available to Leo. What do you think?

I think so too. My resolve is starting to falter so now I am seriously considering using DD/LabMan. I have a feeling we'll end up with almost identical decks. Lol

Megalomania; That is not a bad thing at all. It means we are making progress :-)

By the way, I verused the mirror match of Leovold and the guy was playing Liliana, the last hope. It was the reason he won the game.

Can you explain what to do with the dd card draws?Gush; Gitaxian Probe; Lion's Eye Diamond; Yawgmoth's Will; Laboratory Maniac

Krallion: The sequence offered by AsykoSkwrl is accurate. The last step involves casting Gush a second time. This requires 4 islands in play or (3 and a land drop). This is the primary reason for the high number of islands in the deck.

Yooniverse was this 1v1?

I don't understand, LED's ability states you must discard your hand, and YW is not an instant, and so I don't really see how this is playable without having Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery

You cast Gitaxian Probe and it goes on the stack. While it is on the stack you activate LED and discard your hand. Then probe resolves and you draw yawgmoth's will and use the LED mana to cast it.

Yea, so what happened was both of us had leovold out and there was tasigur on his field. So, no chance of me hitting him. Then, he slams down the Lili which I had no counterspell for. So yea, he ulted her and game.

Yooniverse: That makes sense. This deck is really only designed for multiplayer. Planeswalkers are pretty bad in a 4 person pod, but are great 1v1. So far the best 1v1 version of Leo I have seen is by z2aaa

Leovolds a$$hole control

What's your reason for running Candelabra and High Tide? I don't see any of the usual reasons for needing that much mana.

To allow me to get a higher storm count for Aetherflux Reservoir or to end the game with Doomsday. What are the usual reasons?

Using a blue sun's zenith type effect to draw yourself out with lab man to to draw your opponents to death.

Just wondering since I've tried testing this list in a real competitive meta, how do you function with 30 lands? In 20 games, I missed land drops constantly. Past the lands, the time required to set up Leovold + a windfall consistently is just too slow. At most I can get out Leovold T2 with MAYBE a windfall T3 but by T3 Leovold is gone. Trying to play this deck out a bit slower is impossible since you're staxxed out by T3. Just wondering how you deal with things like this? (Winter Orb T1, Mass Spot Removal at Leovold, Null Rod, Realm Razer, Worldgorger Combo T2)

Can't edit comments on here but I'm really curious why cEDH lists here always go for Doomsday. It's slow, gets completely ruined by any disruption and costs BBB. Aetherflux is also incredibly slow for cEDH list. When I was testing I almost always just got staxxed out before any of these win conditions were relevant and windfalling hands on T3-5 does nothing when their hand is empty by T3.

Im a bit confused by your experience. I almost never have land drop difficulties with any of my decks and I never go above 32 lands for any reason. Do you mulligan often? I maybe use my free mullighan about 50% of the time and go down to 6 about twice every 10 hands and unless I am extremely unlucky I dont go down to 5, and even then I am starting with a hand of 6. When I was at 32 lands I often got mana flooded after my first wheel or once a draw engine got going.

As for the difficulty with Leovold sticking that is an issue I faced and is why I converted the deck to storm and added Notion Thief.

Leo is such an obvious threat, I don't necessarily go for the turn 3 wheel plus Leo much anymore. I usually try to get a draw engine going early Sylvan Library, Mystic Remora and play more politically. I will also dump my hand asap and slam a wheel down on turn 2 with counterspell backup to replenish my hand and get way ahead on ramp. These early wheels and draw spells allow me to hit all my land drops on time. Then when I am ready I can get Leo+wheel down together as opposed to waiting a full turn cycle. It must be noted that while stax is not unknown to me, my metas have not been stax heavy. Instead I face alot of fast combo storm and midrange decks.

Perhaps that is one of the reasons for our differences in experience. What generals are staxxing you out by turn 3 consistently and what is stopping you from countering or removing thier pieces that allow them to break parity? There is several cheap removal spells in the deck and also board wipes. Also turn 3 seems very fast to be locked out of the game consistenty unless everyone is so focused on you they ignore the stax player.

A turn 1 Winters Orb is far from backbreaking since I use artifact, ritual, and dork based mana too. Same with Stony Silence and linvala and in some games those effects help me. I actually used to use Winters Orb because it slowed down the game without affecting me much.

I often will cast Leovold as bait these days to allow my Necropotence or Ad Nauseam to get through the following turn. People only run so much removal so I usually use alot of trickery to get my truly important combos through.

As for doomsday I totally agree it is overused and I am highly critical of builds that try to force it. However, Leovold is tailor built for Doomsday. Triple black is extremely easy to come by with urborg, cabal and dark ritual and I usually will only attempt it after I have nuked hands with Leo or Notion Thief. Moreover the storm build often allows me to win the turn I cast DD.

Aetherflux Reservoir is kind of slow but again, this is a very useful card for bigger Ad Nauseams and it can win the game fairly easily once I manage to get a wheel off. The lines of play are somewhat complex, but its been decent as a backup win condition and Leo has no other good win conditions besides Labman.

I just updated my description to reflect the changes I have recently made. I hope this helps and would like to continue a dialogue with you about this subject.

I just realized I didn't address your question about worldgorger. That combo is actually fairly easy to disrupt if you time his trigger correctly you can permanently exile all his or her permanents with instant speed spot removal. Ive never even seen realm razor and didn't even know that card existed before you mentioned it so I cant help you there

Let me try address these points as I think they're well written. I mulligan pretty aggressively for a turn 2 Leovold but I have not been playing this enough to know whether that should be my line of play. I normally play decks closer to 35 lands, especially if the deck has more mid-late game plays. I think one of my issues is that half the time, I'm locked out before I can wheel off a T2 Leovold or I just don't the wheel in time.

I think one part of this is the difference in our metas. My meta is heavily stax and control. Again a part of this may be that I shouldn't be going all in on Leovold so quickly and cycling more frequently.

One part of the cEDH community that I find very linear is that they focus heavily on general. In my meta, Derevi is one of the stax commanders but there's also Tana/Tymna stax combo, and Mono U control. Derevi stax focuses on all in stax with things like Thorn of Amethyst, Trinisphere, and weaker cards in addition to Winter Orb and the like while Tana/Tymna goes on the stronger pieces like Nether Void, Null Rod, Stony Silence, Winter Orb, Realm Razer. Both run things like Grand Abolisher and Conqueror's Flail. Mono U control is heavy CS with a infinite combo finisher that plays the weakest probably.

To the point of Doomsday, it feels very obvious in the sense that when people expect it, they can disrupt it fairly easily. Wheeling out opponent's hands is a form of protection but knowing that the deck only contains a single line to victory means opponent's can plan turns in advance to have some form of disruption ready for it.

I think I agree that Leovold currently does lack win conditions. In BUG, I generally think there is a lack of general win conditions since it's either going infinite with Palinchron or going for Doomsday. Thing's like stax can use beatdown in addition to having backup combos like Worldgorger. Derevi has generally actually been on the weaker side of the stax.

I'll try playing slower and seeing how this list fairs. I think I probably rushed a bit much on the Leovold plan in the previous games.

If you're more familiar with more lands I suggest going to 32. It will certainly help with exploration. Just out of curiosity what cards have underperformed for you?