Try Ogre Slumlord for more rats. I like a good rat deck so +1

I would consider adding more creatures but that's me personally. Look at Hellhole Rats if you want to deal damge while making them discard, orRavenous Rats and Lab Rats for more rats on the field. But this a good a deck overall

have you considered Rogue's Passage ?

Door of Destinies might make your rats pretty nasty little buggers, but it does cost a bit to cast.

Anyway +1 <3 me some rats.

WhiteDragon26 - thanks for the suggestions, they're all great rats - but this is at the moment a standard deck and they're not legal, I'll keep them in mind, if I choose to make it Modern / Legacy.

GabsLaguardia - yeah I've been thinking about Rogue's Passage , the deck is very early stages, and I can see it's usefulness with Master of Cruelties , I'm toying with the idea of possibly removing all non basic lands (apart from Blood Crypt and then playing Burning Earth ) - I should probably put Rogue's Passage in the maybe board. So far due to the discard and removal in the deck, I don't have a problem with getting the Master to hit home.

Skyl0rd I'll keep it in mind - then after playing this deck a little more, give it a try out.

Thanks for your suggestions guys, really appreciate the input.

My friend has been running a deck that looks kinda like this, and as for Rogue's Passage , It is really useful not only for Master of Cruelties , but also for game finishing blows! =) Also, putting at least one more Sire Of Insanity and Shrieking Affliction might be really interesting in here.

Have you considered Gray Merchant of Asphodel . All of your pack rat copies count towards devotion so it adds up really quickly.

Thanks GabsLaguardia, I'll put some Rogue's Passage in and give them a try.

I'm not sure on additional copies of Sire Of Insanity and Shrieking Affliction , I realise totally why you are suggesting them, but the mana is really quite low on the deck, I don't really want to be seeing all my higher cmc stuff too early.

Shrieking is really good as a 3 in my opinion, I should draw in to it, but it's only effective if I discard the opponents hand, so I've got to have a lot of cards dedicated to that, combine that with I need the removal to be sufficient to keep me in the game long enough to do it. It doesn't leave room for extra slots of those suggestions.

I'm certainly not against what you suggest, just explaining why the numbers are the way they are; and not knowing how to put them in, without disturbing the numbers of the cards that ultimately make the deck work.

warrior1155 yeah I've thought about Gray Merchant of Asphodel , I run him in my B/G devotion deck. In here whilst I'd like the life gaining effect, I'm not sure I can warrant the slots just for him, the deck works better with the cards types and functions at the numbers they are.

But I'll think on it more, it'll become more obvious if he's a viable option after I've played the deck a lot more. I've only had the deck for about a week, tapped out playtests shows it's reasonably strong and at my LGS it went undefeated. But I need to understand this build a bit better in real time play before knowing how to adjust it.

Thanks for the input.

Hows that underworld connection treating you? I think you should try out Read the Bones to get your draws right. The repeatable benifits of uc is great but when discarding cards to make rats you could always use another bump up. Not sure what to cut out but with added card draws you can cut down some stuff to 2 or 3s and still have good chance of digging into them.

Thanks for the input Felixlives

Read the Bones is something I'm looking at as a possibility; it would be a replacement for UC, if that doesn't work out.

The original build had no draw in it, UC came in and replaced 2x Doom Blade ; I tried the deck last week in it's original form and it went undefeated for the day.

I found that with such a low average CMC I emptied my hand and was top-decking in order to try and keep the pressure on.

Am yet to try UC for real (I have my doubts about the genuine consistency of tapped outs playtester); however on here UC seems to be working well.

With Liliana of the Dark Realms thinning my deck by pulling swamps; she can either get the swamp to play, which means the UC land is always open for use, or the swamp is used for Pack Rat .

That means UC - has ever increasing odds of pulling what I need each and every turn, without the scry that Read the Bones has. In conjunction with Liliana, then I can effectively draw at opponents EOT, then my upkeep draw; then if needed again on my turn. So I can dig for three each turn, which actually is as good as Bones.

That's the theory anyway - like I say I want to play it for real - maybe reducing my removal by 2 cards maybe a mistake, lack of draw maybe something I need to live with. If UC isn't worthwhile then I'll give "Bones" a try out.

My issue is; it would only be a replacement for UC - i genuinely feel that none of the other cards in the deck could be cut, without losing it's effectiveness. Low creatures means I have to run a decent amount of removal, less discard cards and then I lose out on what the deck is designed to do.

Thanks again for the input.

Yeah i run 2-3 UC in my golgari devo deck and it is pretty great at digging. I didnt really consider lilliana pulling out swamps when i was pondering this deck so that does greatly increase the valubility of UC the problem i was originally running into was needing the land to cast and not being able to devote it to draw card untill t5-6 but considering the low cmc you have you could be easily utilizing it by t4 and given that if its extra mana that you dont need to play your just gonna feed it to pack rat you may as well stick with uc. I do love uc i play it in a modern deck with sword of feast and famine so i get to really dig with it.

I too doubt tapped outs play tester the shuffle mechanic is weird and i usually end up with weird starting hands that should almost never occur if i physically shuffle my decks. Always end up pulling three copies of cards or all the same cmc cards which is just wonky. Anyways i like this deck alot it is a standard varsion of a modern rat deck i play countertop casual and we run quite a few of the same cards. I need to trade into some rakdos returns and turn it into rakdos instead of mono black. Mmm dreadbore.

Doom Blade over Dreadbore, especially with all the Hero's Downfall you're running, except maybe in the control match up.

Yeah Felixlives the UC with Liliana - means it probably works better, I chose to play the land pulled from Lili for mana or throw it for the rats. Usually means UC is open to do what its there for. (Low CMC's help a lot)

Thanks CitizenD but I can't see myself swapping the Doom Blade in instead of Dreadbore , I realise you make the suggestion bcoz of instant vs sorcery speed, but number of types of cards are really tight... by that I mean in order to have enough creatures to survive we need about 8-10 slots, this prolongs the game for the discard to work and kick in. That has to be consistent, when those 2 things are taken care of it leaves me 10 slots for removal.

Dreadbore albeit sorcery speed - deals with EVERYTHING, Hero's Downfall deals with Everything, then I chose Ultimate Price bcoz every man and his dog in my meta is running something with black in it.

I'm not knocking your suggestion, but I did have Doom Blade in the deck originally and it's just a pain to be holding it, and stuck with black creatures. There's no mana advantage for choosing it over Dreadbore , so i prefer my cards to be able to deal with anything.

Wainwright I am constantly having mana issues. Do you get mana screwed often?

Maybe one-two more lands could do the trick

+1 Thoughtseize -2 Mind Rot .

If you're running Master of Cruelties , I'd suggest 4x Magma Jet in case he hits, you can immediately end the game.

-1 Dreadbore +1 Hero's Downfall (instant speed makes it significantly better)

Do you reliably get two sources of red to cast Anger of the Gods from the SB in the matchups you need it? Having only 8 sources with a double red cost seems like too few to me. I love Slaughter Games , and would up the count to 4 for the control matchup. It wrecks loads of decks nowadays taking out their main wincons games 2 and 3 (No Aetherlings or Elspeths for control is often an instant gg). I like the idea of using the 2 Liliana's Reaver over Mind Rot in the MD, just b/c it adds additional hard threats to your deck. +1 from me though!

I would replace the 2 Mind Rot with 2 Blood Scrivener as it synergizes well with Pack Rat and Sire Of Insanity , and is a beat-stick in addition to being good in top-deck scenarios.

hi Fizzz; I'm a little confused on this - I'm beginning to have serious doubts about the randomness of Tapped Out's playtester, let me explain - when I test the deck on tapped out I have experienced some mana issues, either screw or flood.

Compare this to actual play and in around 30 matches (probably 50+games) I think I've only had mana issues in 4-6 games. 4-6 games in this total, I put down to just every now and again it's going to happen.

With an average CMC of 2 you shouldn't (or I haven't experienced) a lot of issues - but it's something I've got to look at - with more play then one more land could be needed. But I'm quickly realising info from actual gameplay is inherently more reliable than from tapped out's playtester.

GeminiSpartanX - yeah this is something I'm going back and forward on; I haven't had many instances where I've played Anger of the Gods ; sometimes when I've sided it in, I haven't seen it.

I've got to look at this carefully-I'm reluctant to cut down the swamps at the moment, but with 4 guildgates and 4 colorless (which are needed) - then it's a tough call.

I still need to play more games with Anger of the Gods, maybe some matches with it MB rather than SB will give me the answer.

Yeah I like Liliana's Reaver and I'm going to try it out properly, Mind Rot has been useful keeping the pressure on my opponents hand size.

Slaughter Games has worked well for me at a 3 of; but if I see an increase in Control decks, then I'd be upping it to a full playset.

Boomwizard thanks for the suggestion, I'd overlooked Blood Scrivener i'll have to try it out.

nice build. +1 from me. looks a lot like my deck Aggro Discard Control (Undefeated @ FNM) that people have been using with success at FNM. how's it working for you?

sharkudi; hey there - I remember seeing your deck a while back - really great stuff, I'd been wanting to try and put together a modern discard deck, but just not enough of the great cards, which swung me back to standard.

So far it's going well from a lot of matches (casually at my LGS) - it's a little slow in terms of how long it takes to win the game I've found, but it is effective and it does win, I'm hoping to make some changes then go to FNM over holidays with it.

Any recommendations man??? - you're deck is great.

Would you be able to maybe give me a few answers to some questions I'm thinking about.

Is 22 in the mana base right?? On tapped out people have said the get problems? But playing for real I've been mostly ok. (Also do I need to go more mountains?)

I cut some kill spells for added card draw - do you end up top-decking with your deck a lot?? Or should I just go with Discard and Removal??

Looking at your deck again, hopefully your experience of playing your deck longer - could help me when I go to FNM.

Winning conditions can be tricky. Had a game last night where I attacked an Esper deck for 14 turns or so with a Drainpipe Vermin ... so, i'm trying out Master of Cruelties in the next outing. Adding 1x Mizzium Mortars maindeck as well for Blood Baron. he and AEtherling are rough.

Top decking does happen, but usually find that i have the board empty by then and am pitching cards to Pack Rat those Underworld Connections is still an unknown for me, but is one of the top maybes for me. .

I've only had mana issues twice so far in play. Both were against a Mono Blue Devotion deck last night (usually a strong matchup for this deck) 21 has been working out for me, but with the addition of Master of Cruelties i've gone for 22. Liliana of the Dark Realms really help out here. DO add mountains with the amount of red you have. 2 should be fine.

Otherwise i suggest you simply make Pack Rat 's every turn if you're playing white weenies (or other removal free style decks) and can get one out turn 2. you win that race every time. In most situation though save the rats until you're sure to can make 2 in one turn. Hold the Shrieking Affliction until you know it's going to do 3 damage the next upkeep. works as a lightning bolt and Silence . not bad. and honestly i'd drop the Mind Rot for more removal, since removiing devotion creatures and nasty overpowered dudes is rather important. running 13+ removal spells breaks the current meta it seems.

Good luck, and let us know how you do with it!

That's possibly one of the best comments i've ever received on any of my decks sharkudi really helpful thanks so much.

Mind Rot is run here with the reason being it gives me 2 cards where Rakdos's Return would give me one in relation to the early game i mean. Cutting them i feel like i'd have to up Thoughtseize and return up to playsets. Where to find the space for the removal....as i'm running a couple more creatures than you as well. I definitely see your point though. Having more is good considering the meta at the moment in standard. Also makes sideboarding easy when you face control.

Really thanks a lot for the play advice too, I usually go with making the most of my mana available early game and would drop Shrieking Affliction if black is open and i'm not doing anything with it. Waiting makes sense. I do play Pack Rat exactly as youssaid it. All out on turn 2 + or holding until i can make 2 in a turn.

I may with those Play tips think about removal in and UC to sideboard for control matchups so i can live with their card draw a little. But with how i've been playing it the UC really gives a huge advantage. That draw power each turn keeps the pressure on even if it takes awhile to win it doesn't allow them to recover.

Thanks mate really.

sharkudi - Do you think the best change may be; trying to keep the Mind Rot (only for keeping discarding cards at 12 - I don't want to lessen that aspect of control)

So move the Underworld Connections to Side Board - to switch out with removal against control matchup's where card advantage would become more important. The idea being they have lots of card draw, so I can't afford to top-deck and lose the control, I need to draw more, allowing for digging faster for discard answers or greater Pack Rat token generating.

In it's place, based on an earlier comment you made Main Board 2x Mizzium Mortars deals with BBV as you said, and can build up to a board wipe.

I guess here I feel like I'm kind of stuck between how to set up the mainboard as a starting point. Do I play the deck as it's going to face more creatures in which case more removal is advantageous, or do I assume it's more than likely going to be control, in which case the card draw is important.

What do you think? Sorry to bother you with all this.... my local meta is probably 50-50 split currently.