Thanks sharkudi; I totally agree with you, it's great to have regular discussions with both you and Fizzz about the deck, play strategies etc, helps in developing it and finding an optimised method of play - which has been invaluable to me.

I'd like 3 of Liliana's Reaver but struggling were to make the cut; I'm really tight on the mana base now - I can only think of taking out a removal spell or discard, but I don't want to disrupt that part of the deck.

I didn't top deck once at FNM - but I have before without UC in there, due to the available slots I have - I think it's better than Read the Bones only because it's repetitive draw not a one time hit. I agree with Fizzz scry 2 dig 4 is much better as it avoids the lands when you don't need them. But when you have 4 mana out, we can do everything in our decks with 3 lands, the UC one left open allows 3 card draw - Opponent EOT - our own draw phase - then another UC if needed.

Fizzz admits he's paranoid about missing land drops, it's the same for me in relation to card draw. Games I didn't see UC I didn't top deck, by remembering some tips you gave me on how to play the deck... but the games I saw it - it was HUGE. That continual draw - whilst hitting our HP - just doesn't let the opponents back into the game - yes I hit the odd land (but that ain't bad if you don't have Lili out - you just pitch to make another Pack Rat ) - not a bad thing, or I hit removal or discard. Once I got control - UC meant I kept it.

The reaver combined with UC - makes Erebos, God of the Dead hugely important coming in from the SB.

I read on your deck too about Slaughter Games mainboard - I can definately see it's use, bcoz after a Duress or Thoughtseize , it's pretty easy to predict what to name. I was siding it in against a lot of decks not just control - but what to take out - if low on creatures then obviously removal - right? But if creature heavy I'm guessing Rakdos's Return . I like the idea of it MB - but can't see what I would want to take out regularly to find a home for it.

What do you and Fizzz think?

My Take and Revisions:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-hate-control-2/

After 40+ games on Untap.in, I found that the card draw was chewing away at my life too fast. The reaver never panned out too much for me, and the Crypt Ghast gave me mana to wreck with Rakdos's Return . THe extort with so many spells also gave free lifegain and damage.

The Read the Bones Really worked well for me and made my opponents struggle.

Crypt Incursion . This card man. Forcing so many discards makes this card a 2nd life. 3 Life per creature meant that I could heal up really easy. Mono Black couldn't abuse Whip of Erebos without creatures in the graveyard. Mono Blue lost way too many creatues with all the discard and card draw from Thassa and Bident that gave me enough life and damage to ruin them.

Thanks a lot UnknownPhate those suggestions have given me something to think about for possible mods to the deck.

I think that Read the Bones is a great card; I've run it before and because I don't have many slots available have just preferred Underworld Connections ; I like it for consistent draw - once one is on board I can use it when I need it.

Card draw is really important for the deck - but that's also dependant on the matchup - last week playing the deck the whole day I found myself siding it out, and not really ever having problems with top-decking.

Crypt Incursion is really interesting and I can say I haven't considered that before; I think that's a sideboard card for me - and only if my meta is really creature heavy. I'm running Erebos, God of the Dead and even Pithing Needle to shut down Whip of Erebos - but I like the suggestion so I will give it a go.

Crypt Ghast is another I hadn't thought about - but I can see how you'd use it. I'll play around with that. Really Liliana's Reaver didn't work out for you - it's been a brilliant addition to mine; that 4/3 body with built in discard and zombie generator - has sped up the deck considerably.

I appreciate the comments and suggestions - it's nice to be given something fresh to look at and consider, which I had forgotten about and hasn't been suggested before.

Yeah, it's rough when your deck craps out on you. At least you got your revenge on mono blue in the same tournament. Creature heavy decks like that DEGA deck are super rough to handle. At the very least, has to feel good only losing to the #1 and #2 players, and with a deck type no one has seen.

Born of the Gods here we come!!! .. I'm already thinking about a Master of Cruelties + Desecration Demon + Mogis, God of Slaughter kind of build with burn spells and (of course) removal.

Quite agree sharkudi; the problem has been i've been limited on time to play competitively, casually against competitive decks it's been awesome... so when you feel you have a competitive deck and then take it to a competition and it don't play out well; it's pretty disappointing.

I think the lack of competitive play also meant I probably didnt sideboard as well as I could have.

No disgrace losing to only #1 and #2 - that Dega deck was a total b%$& to play, the mono blue was decent match up just not to be.

I'll have to think about making some changes come BotG but probably just play more competition so that I actually SB and pilot the deck better.

I rebuilt my G/B in the meantime (as they use a lot of similar cards) and had fun running riot with that... a decent pick me up.

Look forward to evolving this deck with you after the next release.

If you're interested sharkudi and Fizzz, I'm giving the discard deck one final run in standard, with BNG and JOU additions.

I am! Im currently running a burn and dega control. Let me know how it goes :D

Any thoughts on the new additions Fizzz, so far it's been going well in casual play.

Mogis - Affliction is a real pain for most opponents of what's best to do.... The Maggot has been a reasonable addition, a body and additional discard (temporarily).

Yeah I just want to give it a final outing before rotation wrecks it. Could be rough with Bile Blight Drown in Sorrow Anger of the Gods etc, but hey thats why we run discard. I think it's going to need to be an even more thinkers deck with all the weenie sweepers running around.

I've been toying with BUG / Simic / and Grixis - but my mates said I should go back to this, they won't be saying that for much longer hopefully!! ;)

Excellent. I have a slightly different discard deck, that if I had some temple of malice I would have operated more closely to yours. Here's mine Brain Tap. Mine has the removal but also removes their own creatures for use on my own battlefield.

+1 I really like this!

I don't understand the pack rats here. When you play the rat you generally go balls to the wall and every card in your deck becomes a rat starting turn 3. This doesn't look like something this deck wants to do. Maybe some Magma Jet or Lifebane Zombie would be a better fit?

I also think 21 lands is extremely tight if packrat is in it.

I do agree with that. With all the discard going on you might want to try what I've been doing and give fatty Master of the Feast a try.

Yeah I see your point Dozing and Hidden Strings and I'll admit that on occasion the deck does play out ball to the wall Pack Rat multiplication, but for the majority of the time it isn't.

The best result of the deck come from, disrupt and remove right up to mid game, then dump rats from there on out - this combined with Shrieking Affliction is enough.

I've played the deck since Theros came out, and tight on lands is the best approach - because the deck really grinds out wins the majority of the time - so eventually you can keep ditching lands because you already have enough. 21 is enough to get my 3rd drop on time, and I slowly pick up from there. The decks definately got better with the temples when they came out.

Pack Rat allows you to really go low in creatures, and still get board presence and it adds up in the win cons.

Control is - disrupt the hand and removal, get them to where they begin to stall.

Then there's a decent variety of win cons: Shrieking Affliction / Rakdos's Return / Pack Rat / Mogis, God of Slaughter damage or creature. It's not finish the opponent fast, but it does do fairly well at finishing them (eventually).

Lifebane Zombie and Slaughter Games coming in from the side, really strengthen the deck too.

I like the fact of what Pack Rat offers, given that my meta appears to not be running many Bile Blight Drown in Sorrow or Anger of the Gods it seems pretty feasible to me.

If that changed drastically, then I'd be looking at a different creature base. But without Pack Rat it would require a substantially higher quantity of creatures, which would lessen the effectiveness of the deck. I've done it before and it doesn't work so well.

Liliana's Reaver is a card better then pack rat for discard deck i think

willkakashi101 I agree with you that Liliana's Reaver is a better card if you want it to create a discard, and originally before putting in Brain Maggot and Mogis, God of Slaughter I actually ran the reaver.

My concern is that with so much removal and alike, Pack Rat is actually harder to get rid of completely. If I play it correctly it's going to take more than one card to get rid of my board presence, once I have one or two put down, every card I draw can become another rat.

With the reaver if it gets taken out, I'm left myself digging for my win cons again.

I don't disagree with you at all, but I'm trying to keep creature counts down and discard and removal up, Pack Rat allows me to do that better than Reaver.

The way YOUR deck is built I do think the rats work. Any less discard and it could be a problem. All you really have to do is time the rats correctly. The deck has proved itself to you in its current construction?

I agree with u ur rats do better then reaver. The way i set u my discard reaver helps its a good combo with Master of the Feast u put out reaver first then fatty and the card draw is out. I dont main board underworld so the rats dont work for me. Have u thought bout gary in side board just for a lil life gain. With underworld and pack rat its pretty good life gain against burn. Plus idk ur meta at ur fnm but dredge is a thing so u have to put either rakdos charm or one of my fav from mill ,Crypt Incursion . Cause nighthowler is kinda a big deal.

And ever thought bout Mizzium Mortars in stead of bile cause 4 damage is so very much better then 3 in this format strombreath dragon, krufix, and so many more with 4 def and in late game overlaod for board wipe swing in win

how has the deck been performing for you recently? I haven't played mine in quite some time now. does the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ever create mana acceleration for you?

It is kind of an odd addition, but that's why there's only one. All you need is 4 devotion to get an extra mana after activating the second ability. There's a total 19 black devotion available in the entire mainboard. If it weren't for Underworld Connections I'd ask, "why?" But I rather offer, "why not?"

willkakashi101 - agree with you on Mizzium Mortars that's why it's in the sideboard - Bile Blight game 1, because it takes out more than one creature in the early game - if faced with tougher creatures I side in Mortars. Lifebane Zombie is a key sideboard card against Caryatid and Kruphix decks.

sharkudi - yeah I took time away from it for awhile - but I wanted to give it a final farewell, before some of the awesome Rakdos cards leave us. It's going really well, I've been busy so no chance for a write up, but it's playing better than before - Brain Maggot just increases the discard - which is great for pseudo tempo early on.

Pack Rat still the all star in my opinion - but making Mogis in to a creature off of it is awesome.

Mogis, God of Slaughter and Shrieking Affliction out at the same time has put people in a real 'fix' it's a huge clock.

I miss Liliana but Underworld Connections is really fueling the deck.

Like HiddenStrings said the Shrine is a why not case - late game with the rats it's just allows for that little bit more to do each turn, and doesn't tie up a UC land.

So far I've had a 4th and then a 2nd at my FNM's - it's becoming the unpopular deck again at my LGS - people hate playing against it, which is good for me.