Do you have any particular reason for running Time Stretch over a single turn taker like Time Warp and the like? I understand from your description that a principle purpose of Time Stretch is simply as a win con with deadeye + witness, which a single turn taker would be just as effective for. Also, a Time Warp would be a much more practical card to have in hand for those times when you don't have infinite/near infinite mana. You could even put in Walk the Aeons , which would have the additional benefit of going infinite with Azusa, Lost but Seeking + Crucible of Worlds /Life from the Loam . Just my two cents.

I'm not really sure how I feel about Time Stretch . It's more of a game-ender than the other extra turn cards, but the mana cost makes it difficult to get to while still leaving up countermagic (a Boseiju-shielded double Walk feels good, though). I feel like the alternatives (i.e. the one-turn spells) are sometimes little more than Explore s for 5+ mana.

Anyone else have thoughts on this? I'm certainly open to change, but I want to get a few other opinions before making the edit.

I've always found success with Time Stretch when it resolves. Being able to recur it again during the second turn, even if you don't have an infinite-turns combo, is enough to make some people scoop and should give a good deck more than enough time to combo out. I think it takes preparation though. If you know you can get it off without being countered 100% of the time its always going to be worth it. Otherwise its just another nice back-up to your main wincon.

This deck looks like it can't really get much better, I play test it vs my Jaya Ballard, Task Mage deck and its hard to beat. The only suggestion I have would be a Spell Crumple as a second counterspell to tuck peoples generals. Otherwise, really awesome deck.

I don't recall ever resolving a Time Stretch and then not winning that same game, but I don't often cast Time Stretch . The latter is what makes me wary of keeping it in the deck; I don't really know if I can continue to justify a 10-drop that isn't always relevant. However, it usually results in an auto-scoop if it hits, so I have some conflicting opinions. The dilemma boils down to speed and relevance versus power and additional win conditions (since I don't have very many outside of Palinchron combos; extra turn effects are one of my only other options).

@WarlordNeal: I've often thought about Spell Crumple , but the 3CMC is what makes me hesitate. I think I'd sooner go for a 2-drop counterspell like Memory Lapse . While I may not be able to really tuck generals with it, it still gives me low-cost countermagic, and this deck really needs affordability when it's dealing with multiple opponents playing multiple spells per turn cycle.

Do you have any idea what you would replace it with?

No Temple of the False God ? Too slow? Or is it just too hard to squeeze in with so many other special lands?

@alexsmith21: I'm not sure. I'm open to suggestions.

@mossflower: Temple of the False God is too slow, and it's rendered unnecessary by Ancient Tomb . I also don't want to crowd the deck with too many colorless lands. The reasoning is pretty much as you said.

I still think Walk the Aeons is the way to go. You sacrifice one extra turn for a easier casting cost and an infinite combo independent of both Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator , which makes it a much more consistent win con than Time Stretch . It is just to versatile to pass up.

Walk the Aeons is unfathomably inefficient, though. I can only buy it back if I have Crucible of Worlds and Azusa, Lost but Seeking in play. Even then, I need to protect those two cards to make sure I can replay all the Islands I sacrifice, and I need to also protect Walk the Aeons from being countered.

I agree, it is pretty inefficient as turn takers go. However, I still believe that one mana of inefficiency is a small price to pay for an additional combo. I mean, you do run Capsize , which has approximately the same principal of one mana of inefficiency for potential combo, albeit it has a much less punishing buyback. Regardless though, it is your deck, and you have a lot more experience than me, so whatever your decision is, you're probably going to be right.

Aside from that, I still think Time Stretch isn't the way to go. Time Warp would replace it well, but as you said, it is often just an Exploration . Maybe even leave the realm of turn-taking all together, and add an additional combo? The teferi pool lock is always fun, though Knowledge Pool is near useless by itself.

I'm not just talking about mana inefficiency. The buyback is absurd, and I could only ever pay it if I had both Crucible of Worlds and Azusa, Lost but Seeking in play.

I haven't included the TeferiPool combo for the exact reason you stated. In a list this tight, I can't really afford to run inflexible cards. That's why Time Stretch is on the chopping block.

Just playtested and decked all opponents on turn 4 with Deadeye Navigator Rune-Scarred Demon and card:Blue Sun's Zenith :D

I may be a little late on the Time Stretch conversation, but I would absolutely include it in your deck. I've won nearly every time I've cast the card, sometimes due to the opponent scooping.

-BuLLZ3Y3

I haven't yet lost a game during which I cast Time Stretch, but the card just sometimes feels irrelevant. It's too expensive to be practical during the first half of the game, but it does provide massive advantage when it resolves.

Dropped Mystic Snake for Memory Lapse. I'm looking for other ways to speed things up. Thoughts?

You have incorporated a number of land fetching spells for mana acceleration, so I suppose you could look at the value of Fabricate vs Worldly Tutor. Access to your list of artifacts is useful, but none of them are necessarily essential to your overall game plan of hitting your combo to end the match. Worldly Tutor lets you fetch one of your main combo pieces and is cheaper. A number of your other tutors can snag you one of your artifacts if you need them, so replacing Fabricate with Worldly Tutor seems like a good call to increase your chances of hitting you combo that such sooner. I don't know how much your play style depends on fetching up more artifact mana or Scroll Rack for card manipulation though, which is another factor to consider.

Fabricate is a great way to find Mana Crypt, Scroll Rack, and Crucible of Worlds. The latter is an all-star with nine fetches and several exploration effects.

Worldly Tutor is nice, but I don't know how it would perform in-game. Since the card doesn't go into my hand, it isn't really that useful as a response. It would be an EOT setup spell most of the time, and I'd probably be using it to find Azusa, Lost but Seeking more often than a combo piece. I normally use Tooth and Nail to search for combo creatures.

Given that information, what do you advise?

I certainly do see the value of Fabricate, so I think it comes down to what your preferred game plan values more. Worldly Tutor is an instant and since you have stated that you prefer to leave mana up for counters you can just wait to cast it either at the end of the opponent's turn or during your upkeep if need be, which basically makes it a card put right in hand and at worst a one mana sorcery speed tutor that guarantees you get either Deadeye Navigator, Palinchron, or Azusa, Lost but Seeking. It also helps you set up a safety net for your important plays by grabbing you Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or provides an early game general killer for generals like Edric, Spymaster of Trest by grabbing Phantasmal Image. The main downside is that it is a tutor that essentially costs you a draw/card in exchange for getting you a specific creature.

Fabricate costs three mana at sorcery speed, which infringes on mana you may want to leave up for counters. Not to dismiss the power of Crucible of Worlds or Scroll Rack (they are EDH staples for a reason), but in your deck they are cards that set up your board and plays as opposed to being definite game enders. Since you already have tutors like Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor that are able to grab one of your artifacts as need be, having a sorcery speed tutor just for artifacts that won't win you the game by themselves feels like an extra step in setting up that may slow your play down by as much as a turn.

So the choice comes down to play style. I mainly play 1v1 EDH, and the decks I play with and against frequently threaten to end games anywhere from the 4th-6th turn. Tapping out early for Fabricate hasn't worked out well for me, but it is still a good play if you can get six mana or more on the board. I see why you would prefer to ramp into Tooth and Nail as your ending strategy though, so I think that it may be a decision heavily influenced how fast your own meta is.

You bring up some good points. I might actually drop something like Bribery for Worldly Tutor. I never find myself wanting to cast Bribery because it's so expensive and slow.

If i was considering replacing Leyline of Anticipation i would consider Soothsaying. Its got the ability to give you what you need when you need to draw it.. for those rare moments when you either need answers to come up or you need a tutor.. would work well with infinite mana to stack your deck to a win.

Soothsaying isn't really that great. It's basically a more expensive version of Sensei's Divining Top. I'll rarely find myself in a position to activate its first ability at all or its second ability for any appreciable amount.

A few card choices seem subpar, maybe you can explain them: Jace, lotus cobra, chromatic lantern, blue sun's zenith, reliquary tower

Memory lapse over remand AND arcane denial seems odd.

Consider Grim Monolith or Mana Vault, they can help you make explosive plays or just pump out Damia, and seedborn muse untaps them. Then you'd also have access to a Power Artifact combo if you wanted.

I also think signets are pretty good, unless your meta is full of Meltdowns and Seeds of Innocence.

Dizzy Spell is interestingly useful here. It finds sol ring, exploration, remora, or top-of-library tutors, and it can also find Nature's Claim and Pongify which are solid removal spells. It might actually be better than trinket mage.

I assume no Imperial Seal or Grim Tutor because they cost stupid money?

Other random stuff: Burgeoning, Decree of Pain. The cycling on Decree is what makes it; lots of really important commanders are 2/2s. It can save you from a bunch of Edric weenies or Azami wizards and it's pretty much uncounterable. And the hardcast mode is bananas.

I'm following your deck since i signed in, you got the title right : the price crushes all my dreams !

Anyway we are planning on printing proxys with my playgroup , in order to play several of cards we'll never get our hands on , so as metalevolence i'm interrested on choice of cards you made , what do you usually do on your firsts turns ? Do you only win with infinite mana ?

Beside that thank you for List of EDH Staples and Power Cards i always look in here when i want to switch cards !