Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition

Commander / EDH Epochalyptik

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miracleHat says... #1

what are your thoughts on Realmwright? it would help with your dual lands be tri lands.

March 4, 2013 11:43 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #2

@metalevolence: Jace, the Mind Sculptor certainly isn't subpar. Although his impact on EDH games isn't as ridiculous as his impact on 60-card games, Jace still offers strong control abilities and serves as a great utility card.

Lotus Cobra, on the other hand, is an outright star. With nine fetches and several effects that increase the number of lands I can play, landfall abilities trigger multiple times per turn on average. Even when I'm getting only one trigger per turn, the extra mana is still helpful because it allows me to save a land for countermagic.

Chromatic Lantern is strong because it allows all of my lands to tap for blue. When it's on the field, I don't have to worry about budgeting my lands to keep blue open for countermagic. It would be nice if the card was cheaper to play, but it's still worthwhile in my opinion.

Blue Sun's Zenith is a win condition as well as a support spell. While it can be expensive to cast, an EOT Blue Sun's Zenith can reset my hand if Damia would have been too slow or risky to play.

Reliquary Tower is an EDH staple. It allows me to go nuts with Necropotence and Consecrated Sphinx as well as the other draw engines in the deck. While it doesn't necessarily work with Damia's ability, it does easily do enough with these other cards to justify its inclusion.

Memory Lapse is nice because it prevents an immediate recast (unlike counterspells that return cards to hand) and hoses my opponent's next-turn draw (because they'll just be drawing something they already had). I'll probably be adding Remand soon; I plan to cut Cryptic Command and Bribery. Arcane Denial is something about which I am less enthusiastic.

Grim Monolith and Mana Vault are considerations. This deck's codesigner uses Mana Vault, but I haven't yet included it because it just feels like a Dark Ritual effect; I'm not a fan of one-shot effects. I also won't include Power Artifact because it doesn't have enough applications. I may test Mana Vault, though.

I don't like the signets because they're worse than other mana rocks. I have to leave mana sources open to activate the signets, which means I can't use them as easily as something like Sol Ring.

Dizzy Spell is interesting. I didn't really think about it before, but it does have useful applications as a tutor spell. The problem is it's kind of worthless unless you transmute it. I may test it because I like the options it gives me.

Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor aren't prohibitively expensive for me, but they're the cards I won't add to the online decklist until they're in the paper deck first. It doesn't really behoove me to plan on acquiring cards that are so hard to find when I could be optimizing the existing list in the meantime.

I cut Burgeoning for Exploration because having the extra land on my turn is infinitely more useful than waiting for an opponent to play a land on his or her turn first.

Decree of Pain also used to be in the deck, but I cut it because it was too expensive and slow. Although it's certainly powerful, it wasn't practical.


@switch: My first turns are invariably spent on ramping and setting up draw engines. This is something I explain in depth on my MTGS thread. I will leave countermagic up at this time if I perceive my opponent to be holding threats in hand, but I generally cast ramp spells that leave lands open anyway (e.g. Skyshroud Claim).

The next few turns are spent capitalizing on draw engines and controlling the game. I also tutor for combo pieces when I can afford to do so.

The deck doesn't win only with infinite mana; there are a few recursion loops I can transition into if Palinchron gets exiled or something. One of the primary loops involves recurring Time Stretch.


@m12fox: Realmwright won't make it into this list for two reasons. First, it doesn't tap for mana. Second, it doesn't cause my lands to produce additional mana. It needs to be able to do one of those two things to justify inclusion. As it is, the card is just a color fixer like Prismatic Omen. Chromatic Lantern is a better Realmwright that taps for mana, even though it's a bit more expensive to cast.

March 4, 2013 1:23 p.m.

metalevolence says... #3

Of course I wasn't saying any of the cards in this list aren't great, I just think you could use slots better. Jace for example will probably just brainstorm or bounce something and then get attacked.

I think reliquary tower is win-more; if you have a crazy draw engine unanswered, you've probably got the game in the bag. Its inability to make colored mana could really screw you on some draws.

Your argument against signets doesn't really make sense, if you can't even produce one colorless mana, what spell are you going to be casting? I think all 3 signets in your colors are better than, for example, chromatic lantern, just for being able to come down a turn faster.

Dizzy spell is a tutor, the fact that there's other useless text on it shouldn't inhibit you from using it...

I just thought burgeoning looked like it would be really strong here, if I was going to cut something for it it definitely wouldn't be exploration! I'd run both.

Also, if my comments have helped you any, you should critique some of my EDH decks, if you're so inclined c:

March 4, 2013 2:09 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #4

The argument against the signets isn't that I can't produce the mana to pay for their abilities' activation costs, it's that it's inconvenient to have to pay mana to get mana. I used to run them in an early prototype of this deck, and I never found them to be great.

Reliquary Tower hasn't yet screwed me. The static ability is so good that the lack of a mana ability that produces colored mana is not really an issue. There are enough duals and tris in this deck that I can work around it effectively.

Burgeoning is a good card, but I need to determine whether it's worth running. I have a lot of extra land enablers, and I benefit most when I'm able to play lands on my own turn. I might reconsider, though.

The three cards I'm likely to cut next are Bribery, Cryptic Command, and Leyline of Anticipation. I'm cutting the latter for Remand, which leaves me two spots. I'm not sure if I should include Arcane Denial, but I'd be willing to try it. What might I use as the third card?

March 4, 2013 2:19 p.m.

metalevolence says... #5

I wouldn't cut cryptic unless there's something specific you want to make a slot for.

March 4, 2013 2:40 p.m.

switch says... #6

thanks for le link ! I really liked the whole explaination

I'm not sure i read all the comments in that section but has Vendilion Clique been mentionned somewhere ? looks great with Deadeye Navigator allows to control an ennemy's hand at EOT and works even with Riptide Laboratory !

March 4, 2013 2:48 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #7

I'm not sure how I feel about Vendilion Clique. It could potentially be useful, but I think I might rather have a counterspell.

March 4, 2013 3:06 p.m.

I guess i should give you the counter argument for Soothsaying. The cards first ability is really not important unless opponents target the top of your library when you are about to win, and when you need Blue Sun's Zenith to take the win you can always put it at the top for multiple draws or even just an outright mill, Sensei's Divining Top does not possess this synergy with your deck, and as such is a dead card in comparison. The top 3 cards are still only the top 3.. Soothsaying's ability is far greater in this case acting as a mega tutor instead of a single card tutor.

March 4, 2013 4:45 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #9

That's a very limited application, especially since I have tutors in the deck to just find Blue Sun's Zenith outright. In all scenarios outside of an active infinite mana combo, especially scenarios early in the game, Soothsaying is completely outclassed by Sensei's Divining Top; the latter is certainly not a dead card.

First, Sensei's Divining Top costs one colorless mana. Soothsaying requires blue. While this may not be a huge difference, it does matter.

Second, Sensei's Divining Top always looks at the top three cards of my library. It does this for one mana; Soothsaying needs three to even get the same basic effect.

Third, the shuffle ability of Soothsaying is rendered redundant by the heavy presence of fetches and tutors, which cause me to shuffle my library anyway.

Fourth, Sensei's Divining Top allows me to actually draw a card. Soothsaying only plays with the order of X cards.

March 4, 2013 4:58 p.m.

Additionally, the draw ability of Sensei's Divining Top allows it to dodge removal.

March 4, 2013 4:59 p.m.

metalevolence says... #11

@Armored_Anthrax Soothsaying should only be played in decks with top-of library manipulation as a major theme. Like Lurking Predators and stuff.

Otherwise it's just too inefficient even compared to straight card-drawing spells.

March 4, 2013 5:06 p.m.

You are both absolutely right which is why i didn't suggest the removal of Sensei's Divining Top. You can always use Soothsaying to find Blue Sun's Zenith or Sensei's Divining Top activate one or the other to draw either and cycle that turn to even draw Capsize clear the field and mill out one opponent.

March 4, 2013 5:21 p.m.

Fair. I don't think it's worth including, though. It's just another tutor, but it almost needs infinite mana to be useful. It's also outdone in its basic functions, so the redundancy argument is less appealing.

That said, the discussion is constructive, and I do enjoy debating suggestions.

March 4, 2013 8:10 p.m.

I will definitely debate more with you if i can think of any ideas that might help your decks, thanks for the consideration.

March 4, 2013 9:05 p.m.

I need to make this deck a faster. Although it's strong as-is, there are some dead cards that I can drop for more ramp and low-cost answers.

March 9, 2013 9:54 p.m.

miracleHat says... #16

March 9, 2013 9:58 p.m.

Phyrexian Arena is just too slow. Although it's a good card, it just doesn't do enough for its cost.

Deathrite Shaman is a strong ramp card in a fetch-heavy meta. It exiles other players' fetch lands and turns off Crucible of Worlds as a result. It's not ideal if I need to exile my own fetches, but that option exists as well.

March 9, 2013 10:04 p.m.

miracleHat says... #18

okay then, now looking deeper into the update, why dropping Thran Dynamo and adding Brainstorm (all of the sudden)

March 9, 2013 10:07 p.m.

Thran Dynamo is similarly slow, but I'm giving Brainstorm a shot to impress me. I suppose I have a bit of a reputation for telling players Brainstorm isn't great in EDH, but it's contextual. I play 9 fetches and several tutors, so it has potential; most other decks don't use as many shuffle effects.

March 9, 2013 10:22 p.m.

sylvannos says... #20

What other ramp spells have you considered? Cards like Into the North or even Farseek are cheap two-drops. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach have awesome synergy with Explore and Azusa, Lost but Seeking.

Also, have you tried Forbid? It does stupid things with Damia, Sage of Stone and will lock someone down as another win condition.

I also play BUG, but I'm still looking for fetches and revised duals. I play it more like reanimator. Dropping Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur on turn one or two is a very scary thing for my opponent(s) to deal with.

March 10, 2013 1:33 a.m.

mossflower says... #21

Since you're running so many fetches/other land ramp spells, Khalni Heart Expedition seems good here: 2 mana to put out 2 lands, and the landfall triggers could very easily all happen on the same turn that you play it.

March 10, 2013 3 a.m.

I'm adding Burgeoning once again because I have space.

I thought about Farseek, but I don't like that it forces the land to come in tapped. I suppose it doesn't matter if I find a shock with it, but it's still not as good as Nature's Lore. I'm debating whether another 2-drop ramp spell is worth it.

Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are certainly good cards in EDH, but they're just a bit expensive for this deck. They only find basics, and the one that goes to the field has to come in tapped.

Forbid seems to get suggested often, and I never see enough reason to include it. The mana cost is a bit problematic (I don't like running 3-drop counterspells, but I have to make exceptions for Hinder and Voidslime because of their power), and the buyback is expensive. Although Damia does work to reduce the impact of the discard, I still don't think I'll ever be in a position where I'd want to pitch two cards.

BUG does very well in a reanimator role. The shock/fetch/dual lineup is obviously the ideal land base for a tri-color deck, but you can sometimes make due without them.

I never considered Khalni Heart Expedition. It may have some serious potential. I wish the lands came in untapped or that it only required two quest counters, but fetching two lands just from landfall is strong and reasonably doable. I might test this out.

March 10, 2013 5:39 a.m.

miracleHat says... #23

i actually think that Forbid will be very good in this deck, helping you drop excess lands you don't need.i think that Khalni Heart Expedition will be explosive with Azusa, Lost but Seeking.

March 10, 2013 12:22 p.m.

Is there any reason you have not considered Black Sun's Zenith?

March 10, 2013 5:56 p.m.

Forbid is just too slow and costly. I rarely find myself with extra cards of any kind; even multiple lands can be useful because of cards like Azusa, Lost but Seeking.

I was bouncing the idea of Khalni Heart Expedition off this deck's codesigner, and he feels that the three quest counters, slower speed, and "onto the battlefield tapped" clause are marks against this card. I may still try it, but he has reconfirmed the potential weaknesses of Khalni Heart Expedition.

Black Sun's Zenith is, like Forbid, too slow. X would need to be equal to at least 2 or 3 for Black Sun's Zenith to kill most important support creatures, and the mana cost at that point would be prohibitive. Additionally, the sorcery speed further limits it.

Great comments so far - keep posting, everyone!

March 10, 2013 6:49 p.m.

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