Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition

Commander / EDH Epochalyptik

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Epochalyptik says... #1

My experience with Search for Tomorrow leads me the other way, although I do see your logic. Search for Tomorrow is a strong ramp spell because it allows a turn one play that nets you any untapped basic on turn three. Even if I draw into it with Damia, I can spend the one mana to suspend it and open up space in my hand for another card the next time Damia's ability resolves.

Grim Tutor is very strong, though. I have few tutors that actually put the card into my hand, so another such effect would be welcome.

Other thoughts?

Also, I'm considering dropping Chromatic Lantern , which sometimes seems unnecessary and expensive, for Grim Monolith , which is a bit faster.

April 2, 2013 4:40 p.m.

alexsmith21 says... #2

I can understand your reasoning for that. I think its a matter of preference. If you feel it can be viable both early and late game then go for it. My only concern is that I always had ways to get lands, but not always ways to get cards I need. If you feel the same way, I'd argue Grim Tutor is a great replacement since it still fits on the mana curve and this won't ever be a dead draw. Fertile Ground could be useful as well, as it operates on the same line as Utopia Sprawl , but costs 1 more.

Chromatic Lantern is good, but in playtesting I've never had a problem with getting colored mana or not having the right mana available for a card. The fetches do a good job of that. Grim Monolith would be a good replacement. It's explosive and you only have to play it when you're about ready to combo if you really want to.

April 2, 2013 4:52 p.m.

miracleHat says... #3

i don't like dropping Chromatic Lantern it is just so good. it is just like an oversized Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and if you get it on turn 1, that is always really cool. with Grim Monolith , you can really only use it once, paying 4 to untap for 3 doesn't seem that good.

April 2, 2013 4:57 p.m.

alexsmith21 says... #4

the thing is Chromatic Lantern is only necessary if its hard to mana fix. I've never had a problem with fixing mana in this deck, so it has potential to be a less stellar Darksteel Ingot .

Typically, combo players use Grim Monolith for a one time use of explosive mana and then worry about it later, kinda like Mana Vault .

April 2, 2013 5:03 p.m.

maiden77 says... #5

I think with 12 lands to fetch using your infinite fetch lands you will always have the coloured mana you need pretty much, I think dropping the lantern is a good idea for the monolith. the new fast dreamcrusher is all about cheap and fast and this would fit the bill. what does your partner in crime play epoch?

April 2, 2013 5:44 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #6

Chromatic Lantern is only really relevant because of the prevalence of lands that don't tap for colored mana. My friend plays Grim Monolith instead, and he also plays fewer counterspells, no Mystical Teachings , and a few more extra turn cards.

April 2, 2013 9:01 p.m.

maiden77 says... #7

I must say when I did a gold fish I had loads of counterspells in hand, do you find you always need as many as you have? I would think with teachings giving you essentially two more countersells you might be able to afford to drop one to add in grim monolith and keep the lantern for colour fixing or add in Coalition Relic for that added extra pre combat mana it can give which may be crucial, this is slightly better ramp than the lantern but obviously not as good for colour fixing... I think it may be worth play testing though

April 3, 2013 5:43 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #8

Mystical Teachings normally finds Vampiric Tutor or Mystical Tutor .

I don't often find my hand full of counterspells. I play enough to see them mostly consistently, but not every draw. Probability only goes so far, but the count has been fair to me.

April 3, 2013 8:35 a.m.

maiden77 says... #9

If you are happy with the counterspell count then all is well. I am just winging ideas at you for food for thought lol. Now you have so much early and fast ramp, would it be worth exploring Mana Reflection ? I am thinking this because it would be dropped way earlier thanks to your fast mana rocks and this will in turn allow you to afford to untap them with your double lands. if you sometimes suffer with colour this will help, it would also mean you could drop the reflection as earlier as turn 3 so after that you will have the mana to just do what you want and I think combo out early? just thinking out loud again. I know when I get double mana in my karrthus deck the game ends. I can only imagine what this sick deck would do with double mana. And I think it wouldn't be 'win more' as usual if you dropped it so early in the game as you now have the potential to.

April 3, 2013 8:53 a.m.

I explored mana doublers in the earlier stages of this deck's development, but I determined they weren't worth including. They represent such an investment of resources that they become liabilities. Casting Mana Reflection can leave me without mana open for control, and it needs to survive until my next turn. Usually, the ramp in this deck accelerates me into a turn 3 Damia, and then into a turn 4 or 5 Tooth and Nail . Mana Reflection wouldn't really save me anything, unfortunately. The card would be powerful in this deck if it weren't for the meta in which I am playing.

April 3, 2013 10:25 a.m.

maiden77 says... #11

yeah, I was just thinking with your newly added super speed, it may now be viable as you can get it down whilst others are ramping and therefore not need to worry about protecting it, much like casting damia so early, but I think you will always want to cast damia 1st I suppose. and the two green is slightly more prohibitive I thought it was 1 green when I suggested it sorry fella.

April 3, 2013 11:47 a.m.

SaberTech says... #12

I don't know if this is just my usual horrid luck with the Playtest program, but despite all the mana ramp in this deck I'm still rarely seeing a 3rd turn Damia. I'm also finding that if the opponents have an answer for an early Damia then the deck quickly finds itself falling behind in card advantage unless it manages to grab an early Necropotence or Blue Sun's Zenith . Without strong card draw the numerous mana ramp spells start to become unwelcome draws in the mid game when I am hoping for something to keep me from falling behind in my board set-up. I am frequently stuck questioning if tapping out to cast Damia to restock my hand is worth the risk or if I should sit back and wait until I have the mana for a counter as well.

Since this deck has a habit of burning through its hand quickly by playing ramp spells and dropping extra lands, how do you decide when it is worth casting Damia? When you only have two or three cards left in hand in the early game and then drop Damia, how do you keep her from looking like a juicy target for removal? It's pretty obvious that dealing with an early Damia is an excellent way for your opponents to set you back considering that you have so few plays left to make and almost no progressive board presence beyond your mana.

April 5, 2013 2:25 a.m.

The decision to cast Damia is situational. There's no hard rule for when you should cast her in every game, but ASAP is usually decent. Unless you're playing against open blue, it's usually fairly safe. I rarely have problems with kill spells, although Damia does sometimes die. I'll typically have the ramp to recast her, though. If you know you're up against control or a kill-heavy deck, you can make the call to wait until you have countermagic available. I'll try to keep something in hand to cover my plays, but it isn't a luxury I always have.

April 5, 2013 3:03 a.m.

Tat says... #14

Library of Alexandria for post-Damia draw?

April 6, 2013 4:50 a.m.

Library of Alexandria is banned in EDH.

April 6, 2013 6:45 p.m.

Traveler247 says... #16

I've been playing around with Deserted Temple and Scorched Ruins , and so far it seems strong. While neither card is ridiculous on it's own, both offer some nice options, and together they generate 7 mana.

April 7, 2013 12:43 a.m.

MTG_Player says... #17

Expedition Map is a great colorless ramp / utility outlet, because of your diverse land-base.

April 7, 2013 12:50 a.m.

Deserted Temple used to be played in this deck when Primeval Titan was legal, but I cut it after the ban because Cabal Coffers was no longer viable. I don't need to untap any of these lands at the cost of paying 1 and tapping another land.

Scorched Ruins isn't good, either. Playing that card is asking to get Time Stretch ed by a Strip Mine or a Wasteland . On top of that, I would need to sacrifice two untapped lands, likely dual lands, to get colorless mana.

Expedition Map isn't actually ramp, and there aren't any lands that are so worth tutoring that I would include Expedition Map .

April 7, 2013 2:22 a.m.

After playtesting, I found that Dryad Arbor , Arbor Elf , Search for Tomorrow , and Nature's Lore didn't really help you out. At many points, they were all dead draws. I have been playtesting this deck for a long time and have commented in the past so I think I know what could be added to fill these spots. I think: Phyrexian Tower , Farseek , Gleeful Sabotage , and Trinket Mage . I hope this helped!

April 7, 2013 10:21 a.m.

Dryad Arbor is a bit slow at times, but Green Sun's Zenith makes it playable in my opinion. I think of it as another ramp option.
Arbor Elf is decent because it can untap dual lands. It's not as good as Birds of Paradise , but it's still alright.
Search for Tomorrow is iffy. It has a low cost, but its usefulness declines as the game progresses.Nature's Lore is infinitely better than Farseek . It brings in dual and shock lands untapped, which is worth not being able to find Underground Sea or Watery Grave .

I don't really play enough creatures for Phyrexian Tower to be useful.
Farseek is kind of limited in that it always brings the land in tapped.
Gleeful Sabotage is effectively worse than Naturalize , which I already don't run.
Trinket Mage is slow, and I don't run it because the cost:effect ratio is not great.

April 7, 2013 5:01 p.m.

Dreno33 says... #21

are you allowed to play Bloodstained Mire ???? isn't its color identity B/R

April 8, 2013 8:34 p.m.

Color identity is determined by color indicators, mana symbols in the mana cost or non-rules text, and characteristic-defining abilities.

Bloodstained Mire doesn't include any of those things, so it has a colorless identity.

April 8, 2013 8:39 p.m.

As far as i know and have seen all lands are considered colorless. I have had this debate many times, its important to make this distinction when using abilities like Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle vs Circle of Protection: Red . As you can see Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle has no mana symbols so its color identity is colorless and so Circle of Protection: Red could never protect you from it. however if you compaire Koth of the Hammer to Circle of Protection: Red the Circle of Protection: Red would clearly protect you from Koth of the Hammer 's red elemental Mountain but not his ultimate ability. also it is clearly stated that card containg a mana symbol anywhere on it thats not one of your commanders colors, cant be included in that deck. And while playing the game, if you would add mana to your mana pool thats a color not shared by your commander, you get colorless mana instead.

April 8, 2013 10:15 p.m.

Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle has a red identity because it has a red mana symbol. However, it is colorless as far as card color (not color identity) is concerned.

Also, reminder text doesn't count for identity, so extort cards can be included in mono-white or mono-black decks.

April 8, 2013 10:19 p.m.

Thank you, i tried to edit my comment but it was too late to edit it. You are correct it has a red color identity however due to the fact that its CMC has no identity it is equal to 0, and is also considered colorless.

April 8, 2013 10:24 p.m.

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