Interesting note while we are on the topic of color identity. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth has no color identity either and can thus be ran with any commander. You can't USE any of the B mana that your lands can now produce unless you have a corresponding commander but you can turn everything into swamps. (Mana Web or anything that has Swampwalk not already in the B colors. Zodiac Ox for example.)

i hope you know Dryad Arbor is in here twice. under land and creature. why is that?

The system counts Dryad Arbor as both of its types, so it appears under both listings. It's a bit strange because other dual-type permanents (e.g. artifact creatures) aren't necessarily cross-listed.

o ok gotcha.

Epochalyptik,

My friends and I are going to play each other with a proxy edh deck, following all competitive rules and make a tournament with a cash prize for first place. So i ended up finding this deck of yours seeing as I look up to you as a great suggester and rule advisor. I was considering using your deck (if you don't mind) for my little tournament. if you ever get the time out of your day. would you mind either commenting here or on my wall how you would play out this deck in detail. I know I am fairly new to magic (since january), but I've been winning quite often now (against all types of deck and against very experienced players) and playing a lot smarter. In looking at this deck, before I would attempt to play it, how would you? Like when searching for cards in early game and everything, what would you go for?

I know this is a VERY broad question, but it is only because the answer I am seeking is to be a broad scope of answers and a variety of how to work this deck's magic.

Thanks in advance if you take the time to respond to this,Dreno33

I would appreciate it if you did proxy this deck. It's always nice to have playtesting data coming in, especially because other users can sometimes spot issues I didn't.

I go into more detail on the MTGS Thread for this deck (the decklist is currently a bit different, but the information is mostly accurate).

I can explain the nuances of the deck via Skype if you would like a more personal explanation, but broadly, you should be ramping as much as possible in the early game. Control and tutors should play secondary roles at this time. Turn two or turn three Damia is ideal, and you should be launching into the combo by turn four to turn six.

Don't worry about spending a tutor to grab a ramp card. I do it all the time; casting Damia earlier and drawing a ton of cards is better than holding a combo card in your hand on turn two when it's useless.

Some of the interactions and play choices are somewhat complex, and usually only experienced control players will see and understand them.

Honestly I find Ghave, Guru of Spores to be a more complex combo. Your combos here Epochalyptik are fairly straightforward. Get infinite mana by using a 2 card combo, find Blue Sun's Zenith , make them draw 100, win.

Ghave, Guru of Spores on the other hand...

Speaking of finding Blue Sun's Zenith have you ever considered Dimir Machinations ? You play in a highly control/combo meta so having a tutor for 3cmc that is uncounterable in B (not using your U mana) seems pretty good. I would hardly ever cast it, I would use it strictly for it's Transmute. Same for Muddle the Mixture and 2 cmc. Thoughts?

thank you Epochalyptik. I'm going to read into that tonight when I get the time to play test a lot while reading it. See, I like to play fun decks a lot and gets laughs. my grand arbiter deck last week (while be ganged up on from all 5 opponents) took them 57 turns to kill me. I had my Azor's Elocutors hexproofed and indestructible (with Darksteel Plate ). Then they could only untap one land per turn and having Rule of Law was also annoying them. All of my cost less artifacts made spells like Iridescent Angel only cost 2. I was hated and only lost b/c someone happened to get a few flyer tokens out after my Iridescent Angel was Damnation ed. They weren't too pissed by the end of killing me.

But now I was looking into a really nice competitive deck to start winning edh games (since I usually ONLY win in regular 60-card decks, not edh). i thought maybe I could run a colorless edh deck since none of them run B/W decks for Merciless Eviction . its a work in progress: They said it couldn't be done...

thanks man!

I don't really think the transmute spells are very viable. They aren't good except for the tutor effect, and I would sooner run Grim Tutor .

Have you ever considered Dash Hopes ? I am not totally sure if it would fit well, but I know that the life-loss from the card can be nice if your ok with that sort of thing.

Dash Hopes is bad in EDH; any player would sooner pay the 5 life to counter Dash Hopes than allow their spell to be countered.

Hhhmm. Interesting. I actually play a Damia deck with Dash Hopes and it seems to be very effective. Then again, it might be the kind of EDH's I face too because I find that the people I face would sooner let it pass then actually pay the 5 life. I play a variety of EDH decks and I face a wide variety of EDH decks too and it helps me, at least, it did the games I got it. Maybe take a look at my deck if you have a minute. There is no land base because I am currently fixing it. Thanks! Link: The End of the World (Effective Immediately)

That seems quite strange. Life is one of the most fluid and flexible resources in Magic, and I can't think of any situation where I would not pay life to counter Dash Hopes (except for those in which I had 5 or less life). Maybe your opponents are just not attuned to how to capitalize on their life totals, especially in a format with 40-life starts.

That is totally possible. I assume that's probably how it is. I would rather take pay the life too.

I see you have not put an Alchemist's Refuge in your deck. Did you feel this cards cost also outweighed the benefits?

He had it in the deck before Cavern of Souls made an appearance. I personally like it too, but for this kind of deck it was probably too slow.

I cut Alchemist's Refuge for Cavern of Souls because I didn't often find myself using Alchemist's Refuge . It has the potential to be good, but it basically costs you three mana to give your cards flash. That means I'd be investing a fair amount of resources just to activate an ability that is only useful if I can cast something after the effect is created.

Thoughts on Stifle ? It's a strong card, but I'm skeptical that it's worth including.

It would be great to use against an Avacyn, Angel of Hope / Worldslayer combo attack, buying you that one more round you might need.

Truth is i think most of the time Stifle will be a dead card. When you need it you will already have another answer in your hand that works just as well, in my opinion .. its lack of flexibility doesn't seem to suit this deck very well. in fact id rather run an Archaeomancer before i would run Stifle even if CmC says otherwise. Unless its a planeswalker it doesn't seem like the right card to play.

IMO Stifle too limited but it depends. What are the usual generals that you face in your pods?

I have a very small playgroup here, unfortunately. Most (read: all) of my "competition" comes from the mirror match, a Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord combo deck, and maybe an Ertai, the Corrupted build (played by the same player who has the mirror deck.

In competitive pods, I'm not sure how often I'll find it worthwhile to counter an activated ability. I can screw fetches and some combo abilities, but most abilities are either static or not worth countering.

It doesn't seem worth it to me unless someone relies on Triskelion + Mikaeus + Tooth and Nail /Defense of the Heart for nearly 99% of their wins. Or something like it.

What about Dispel ? It seems potentially useful, especially against other control decks. A 1-mana counterspell is often a critical advantage.

Are you concerned with anticounterspells? If you are Dispel seems like a fine choice but it does miss all sorceries. Personally I like Turn Aside for combo protection.

I know it's kinda janky and expensive but have you ever thought about Knowledge Pool as a way to effectively Stasis the board? (With Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir of course.) As I said, I know it's janky but if you respond to Knowledge Pool with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir you can resolve both and lock everyone out of the game. Against most decks there's nothing anyone can do.