@merrowMania: Fastbond is banned in EDH.

:..(

I really love this deck. It, along with some of your articles, has slowly made B/U/G my favorite color combo, and convinced me how fun/interesting EDH is.

I'm curious, do you think any cards from theros could be relevant here? all 3 of the gods in your color pie have some good abilities, particularly Thassa, God of the Sea , and Erebos, God of the Dead . It also kind of seems that Sylvan Caryatid could be better than Arbor Elf / Birds of Paradise . Though I guess i'd rather have them kill my mana dorks than my bombs. I'm also curious if you think they work in casual/ less serious EDH too.

@Grimgrinner:

Thassa, God of the Sea is a decent card, but it isn't really that relevant here. The unblockable ability is not useful in a deck that barely ever swings, and the scry 1 is not very helpful when you consider I'd have to pay 2U.

Erebos, God of the Dead is also decent, but somewhat irrelevant. Lifegain is not a threat to this deck, and the draw ability is kind of clunky compared to the other options BUG has.

Sylvan Caryatid was discussed earlier (although I don't expect you to have read all the comments). Basically, it isn't as useful as Birds of Paradise , which costs 1 less, and Arbor Elf , which costs 1 less and can work with Utopia Sprawl .

In terms of Theros, the only really relevant card that came out was Swan Song . A one mana counter spell that hits most of the relevant things is too good especially in this deck. Beyond that, most of the cards from Theros aren't powerful or efficient enough to make the cut. We'll just have to see about the other sets.

Hey Epochalyptik, sweet deck, it's pretty close to what I'm playing right now. Why don't you use Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion ?

Err... sorry for the double post. Do you actually own an Imperial Seal ? I remember when they were like 75 bucks lol.

@HammafistRoob: Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion are not good enough for this build. They're each pretty expensive, and they have no relevant applications outside of their combo. They don't interact well with the other cards in the deck, so they'd only be useful in conjunction.

And I do indeed own an Imperial Seal .

Well the point of them is to Tooth and Nail them out. Mikaeus is also great with Glen Elendra.

I'm aware that the idea is to use Tooth and Nail to fetch them; Tooth and Nail is only in the deck because it's such a strong combo enabler. However, neither Mikaeus, the Unhallowed or Triskelion is very good on its own. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed does have the benefit of giving most of my other creatures undying, but it costs too much to be playable outside of a combo, and its effect can't apply to the Humans in the deck (all of which are very strong).

Well Palinchron is also terrible on his own, and even if he gets you infinite mana you still might not be able to win. The point is to have a 9 mana "I win" button that doesn't rely on the rest of your hand/board.

Palinchron fuels a great many combos through infinite mana, and the mana production also allows me to set myself up with all of my options (by casting Blue Sun's Zenith on myself, for example). Although it isn't good except as a combo creature, it does a great deal for the deck.

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion don't mesh with the deck. They'd take up two slots, and they're both expensive, clunky creatures.

Also, Tooth and Nail doesn't have to find Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator all the time. Often, I find Palinchron and Rune-Scarred Demon , then use Rune-Scarred Demon to find Deadeye Navigator and Palinchron to cast it. This also allows me to produce infinite mana, then tutor my whole deck into my hand. My Tooth and Nail options are quite flexible.

Oh I got you now. I somehow didn't notice the Demon in the list. Makes alot more sense now.

You should consider Harrow . It allows you to thin your deck, ramps, and can color fix. Just sacrifice one of the tapped lands and bring out 2 untapped, it's essentially an extra land for 1.

Another card worth considering is Rings of Brighthearth . It interacts with a lot of your lands, allowing you to fetch 2 for 1, and a few others like Cephalid Coliseum , Riptide Laboratory , Strip Mine , Wasteland , and Volrath's Stronghold . It also enables infinite mana if you were to add Basalt Monolith as another ramp card.

One question I have is why you run Dispel over Flusterstorm ? Often enough it is a hard counter, and it also hits sorceries (they have to pay at least 2, it also deals with "free" counters like Force of Will quite nicely if you get into a counter war).

As for what to cut for them, my first choices would be: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir , Time Stretch , and Tooth and Nail .

Time Stretch - This just seems like a win more card to me. It doesn't help your deck as much as a 10 cost card should.

Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - It's a fairly overpriced creature to be able to flash in some of your creatures. If you play him for the control element of his ability, figure out if you can justify cutting him or not.

Tooth and Nail - Yes, this is an epic card if you can resolve it, but more often than not, someone will counter it if entwined, and if it isn't entwined, it's just an overpriced tutor.

I feel it's up in the air between Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Tooth and Nail as to which to cut. It would be up to you if you think Harrow , Rings of Brighthearth , or Basalt Monolith were worth it anyway. I do feel that Flusterstorm is almost strictly better than Dispel though, you should probably make that switch.

One other thing, since I just read through some comments... If you were to play Tainted Pact You'd definitely want Living Wish in the deck. You'd obviously cut your 2-of snow lands for their normal counterparts, but I personally still don't think that Tainted Pact would be worth it, just because this is a combo build. You'd end up having to pay 2 more for something you really need because you had to exile it.

Just my opinion, might be worth considering though.

I do realize that Harrow is especially vulnerable to counterspells due to its cost, but if it's played early enough, it usually doesn't get countered. I see that if it is countered, it will usually be very detrimental, but you could possibly consider making a spot for it OR Carpet of Flowers depending on the amount of blue your opponents are playing.

@nbarry223:

Harrow is too much of a gamble. If it gets countered in the early turns, I'm at an extreme disadvantage. Additionally, it only finds basic lands. I'd probably be sacrificing a dual or shock to cast Harrow unless I played something else specifically to sacrifice.

Rings of Brighthearth is a good card in some EDH decks, but not this one. It's expensive to use when you have to hold countermagic up for every turn cycle. The benefits aren't great enough to warrant that risk, in my opinion.

Dispel is always a hard counter whereas Flusterstorm is not. Although there will be many situations in which Flusterstorm amounts to a hard counter, I like the security. You raise an interesting point, though, and I'm willing to consider looking into Flusterstorm some more (especially because it's nice in counter wars).

Time Stretch is kind of a win-more card, but it has won me games I would not have otherwise won. A friend of mine runs multiple extra turn effects in his variation of this deck, but I haven't tested that approach yet.

Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir isn't in the deck to give my creatures flash. It's in the deck because it locks my opponents out of my turn and allows me to perform my combo effectively uninterrupted.

Tooth and Nail will never leave this deck unless it is banned from the format. It's the single strongest combo enabler in the deck (and arguably in the format). Tooth and Nail wins the game if it resolves.

• I can find Palinchron and either Deadeye Navigator or Phantasmal Image if I have the win in my hand.
• I can find Palinchron and Rune-Scarred Demon , then find Deadeye Navigator .
• I can find a combo piece and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir if I have another combo piece in my hand.

There are more options, of course, but those are the most common.

I don't really want to play Tainted Pact because it puts me in a very awkward spot if I come across a combo piece before something I need more at the time.

Living Wish is under consideration, and I will probably test it.

Carpet of Flowers is also under consideration.

The cards in my sideboard are the "might add" ones.

Harrow is pretty good but I'm not sure that it's any better than the ramp already in the list.

Flusterstorm is actually really bad in EDH, and Dispel is arguably the strongest counter in the format, except Mana Drain .

Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is most likely a meta call as he is insane against decks that rely on countermagic to stop broken things. He also nullifies any hope your opponents have of interacting with the combos.

Tooth and Nail is probably the most broken card in EDH, as it reads 7GG, win target game. If you're letting it get countered, there's something wrong with your build or play.

Have you tested Muddle the Mixture ? I'm sure you have and I'd be interested in your reasoning for excluding it. I find it's flexibility to be quite invaluable.

@HammafistRoob: I wouldn't jump to say Flusterstorm is bad in EDH. It's very strong in counterspell wars, where the copies capitalize on storm count and on lack of mana. It's just geared toward more competitive metas, where the situations likely to make Flusterstorm shine are most prevalent.

Muddle the Mixture has been in the back of my mind for a while. I do really like that every aspect of it is useful, but I don't know that it's more useful than what I'd have to cut. It's a bit limited in scope for a UU counterspell, and I don't know that the transmute ability really makes up for it. The most likely tutor candidates are Grim Monolith , Snapcaster Mage , and Demonic Tutor . Many of the 2 CMC cards in this deck, while good, are not necessarily worth tutoring for with 1UU at sorcery speed.

Well, I see why you want Tooth and Nail and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir they are very much dependent on your meta, and I see yours warrants them. However, Flusterstorm is probably worthy of Time Stretch 's spot simply because it can force through something far better than any counterspell. If they try to counter something of yours, you counter with it and they have to either pay one or counter every single copy. A counter that splits into a bunch of little ones definitely has its uses.

@HammafistRoob - Muddle the Mixture is usually played for its transmute, which is basically a more expensive tutor card. Yes, it can counter an instant or sorcery, but for anything else, there's Counterspell which is strictly better if you aren't considering it for the transmute ability.

@nbarry223: Tooth and Nail isn't really even meta-dependent. It's just good.

I don't where exactly I stand on extra turn effects in general, though. They're very powerful, but I fear cards like Temporal Manipulation will often end up being expensive Explore s with an untap clause.

Is the meta you play in really counter heavy or something? If so, have you ever considered Mindbreak Trap . In addition to it's alternate cost, it is a way to counter things that aren't counterable if you just hard cast it (although 4 might seem like a fairly expensive counter). It functions much like a Time Stop as far as countering things that aren't able to be countered. Figured I'd just through it out there in case.

Well, extra turn cards can be useful if you manipulate them well enough...

Just think about Mystical Tutor (or any of the top of library cards) + Temporal Mastery with Riftsweeper for recursion in the right deck...

They can be very powerful effects, but you need to use them properly, I just don't think it works in your deck.

I shouldn't have said Flusterstorm was bad. But the card is very narrow in that it's only really good in counter wars. Most EDH decks don't run that many counterspells and if they do, you just grind them out with Damia. Outside of a counterwar, Flusterstorm gets very weak very fast with all the ramp in the format. If you really are in a competitive environment than it probably warrants a sideboard slot.

Muddle the Mixture is decent protection for your combo and it only gets better as the game progresses. I find myself using the transmute side more than the counter side, but it definitely has its merits due to the flexibility of it.

One last question before I go, is Deathrite Shaman in there for the graveyard hate, or do you try to use it to ramp?

Looking at the list more, it looks like Time Stretch /Chromatic Lantern should be up for the chopping block first, followed by Glen Elendra Archmage . I'm not totally sure what you should replace them with, but they seem to have the least amount of synergy/need in this deck.

Worldly Tutor since you seem to rely on a lot of creature based combos? Garruk Wildspeaker to ramp a bit (his +2 mostly)? Kira, Great Glass-Spinner / Erayo, Soratami Ascendant for some pre-general protection maybe?

I don't know, that's about all I can come up with, good luck with the deck.