@djskype: Try ChiefBell's suggestions. The filters and check lands are in the second tier of EDH color fixing (with ABUR duals, shocks, and fetches being the first).

I recommend against taplands because you don't want to sacrifice your tempo for color fixing if you can help it. Also, be aware that cutting the ABUR duals and fetches will impact other elements of the build. For example, Crucible of Worlds becomes near useless, and you may have trouble paying for saturated costs on a regular basis.

I know they come in tapped but for $.15 each you can use the mirage fetches. Flood Plain and the rest. Good for budget and if you have, turns around to look at the EDH box, 10 EDH decks that you don't want to get ABURs and Zen fetches for.

Also, Adarkar Wastes pain lands are a good place to look.

what about Bojuka Bog or Tormod's Crypt to add a bit more grave hate? why not run Vendilion Clique for hand control, draw power, blocker, and potential combo to eternally control all players hands. also, no Tamiyo, the Moon Sage due to the high CMC?

@Atsuma: Bojuka Bog is too slow, and Tormod's Crypt takes up a spot that would be better spent on another card. I like the idea of graveyard hate, but the choice ultimately comes down to graveyard hate or something else, and the something else invariably wins. I just don't have need for heavy graveyard hate in this deck.

Vendilion Clique is something I'd have to test to evaluate.

Tamiyo, the Moon Sage is pointless in this deck. Its only relevant ability is the last one, and it costs 3UU and five more turns to even get there. The +1 is alright, but in no way justifies the investment of time, mana, and deck space necessary to support the card itself.

Epoch you don't have enough tricks in the deck to get the most from Vendilion Clique . It's actually a card I really hate, unless you can a) play multiples or b) can bounce.

Also a lot of players use tutors which renders it somewhat useless.

it is a wizard allowing Riptide Laboratory to bounce it and is something you could bind to Deadeye Navigator , recur with any of the numerous recursion, or bounce with Venser, the Sojourner in radically niche situations such as someone just tutored for a combo piece. I agree with you chiefbell that it is overplayed and people treat it a tad goodstuffy when it isn't, but i think this deck runs the synergy to make it work.

Epochalyptik is there any reason you're using Time Stretch over Capture of Jingzhou or Temporal Manipulation ?

Why Blue Sun's Zenith over Stroke of Genius ? Stroke of Genius seems to be a much better card, because you're able to recur it, as well as only needing one blue to be able to play it.

BSZ is the primary wincon when a Tooth and Nail resolves for infinite mana and tutor power. It also functions as a re-playable draw spell when not in the combo. It can be tutored directly without needing a recursion piece.

Aside from Blue Sun's Zenith shuffling back into the library, they're the same card, and going back into the library was the reason he chose Hinder over Spell Crumple , so I'm curious why in this instance the opposite logic is the choice?

Hinder is something you want to be available when you need it as opposed to BSZ, which is useful when it presents itself. Hinder is marginally better than Spell Crumple because if you crumple someone's commander, you don't have the option to crumple the next player's commander, should they decide to cast it. You can recur Hinder over a turn cycle easily before it gets back to your turn.

@supercaptainpow: I haven't decided yet on Time Stretch . I haven't actually playtested this deck in a long time, so there are some scheduled updates that just haven't gone through yet.

@tuckchuck33: Blue Sun's Zenith is better than Stroke of Genius because it shuffles back into my library. While this reasoning is inconsistent with my Hinder vs. Spell Crumple reasoning, there is logic to the difference.

Hinder is better than Spell Crumple because it's easier to access with Snapcaster Mage and Eternal Witness should I need it. Blue Sun's Zenith is better off remaining in my library instead of in my graveyard because I depend on it as a win condition. The graveyard is much, much easier to disrupt than my library is, and I'd rather keep my win conditions where they are most protected.

Normally what I do is cast Blue Sun's Zenith on myself to draw exactly my library total, then blink Rune-Scarred Demon to pick it up again. Each time I cast it, I recur it so I can kill another player.

Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Turnabout ? I've been running it for a while now and have been really happy with it as a card. 4 out of 5 times I treat it like an Early Harvest however having the ability to tap down my opponent's creatures or alnds at instant speed is really cool. Not to mention, it provides an infintie mana combo that doesn't revolve around palinchron. I find it most useful (other than when I'm comboing off) when I want to play my general and still have counterspell mana open. Thoughts?

Thanks for a awesome deck Epochalyptik. I've been piloting a tweeked version (minus the most expensive and the off color fetches. I love the consistency as long as Palinchron doesn't get Extract ed lol. My primary win con is Vela the Night-Clad which let's me run cheaper tutors Worldly Tutor and kills the whole table at once.

@enpc: Turnabout is not ideal. It's an expensive spell to use on yourself, and it only hits a single opponent if you use it to shut someone down. There are better cards to include.

@Shawn_ozz: Glad you're enjoying it. I would personally advise against Vela the Night-Clad because its only real function is as a combo piece. In general, I try to make sure the combo pieces are all able to function well as regular cards if necessary.

Epochalyptik Well if you were more creature oriented Vela the Night-Clad could be pretty nasty. From what I know of you, you don't acknowledge your combat step. Shawn_ozz might be creature based enough that it could be pulling double duty.

Yep she's a dead card outside of the win. I've kept the rest of the win-cons as well. What I was trying was an easier win. Decking and bouncing all permanents seems like a lot of work. Mostly bc it's hard to get my play group to scoop. If I can make everyone's life total 0 at the same time it's a definitive win. Do u have any other cards you've considered that might do it. She's also a wizard for Cavern of Souls

@Shawn_ozz: If you're running the deck very similar to this build, I always find Massacre Wurm is good for a laugh. Its not as powerful as an Exsanguinate however it is good against weenie / creature sac loops. you get infinite mana from Forbidden Orchard and then play this guy.

@Epochalyptik: Fair enough. Its tricky trying to find cards that are both versatile and then that arent unplayable due to mana cost/other restrictions. Currently I am still running Turnabout as a combo piece, but i would interested to get your feedback if you don't mind. I've had Damia Morgendorffer for a while and run it through quite a few archtypes until I found one that worked, so I've taken a lot of inspiriation from your deck.

enpc Massacre Wurm seem fun. I'm play less mana dorks and more utility Phyrexian Ingester is fun since it exiles. I'm in the process of getting a list posted.

The list I'm running is up Damia -- Little Crusher

@Shawn_ozz & enpc: I don't agree with Massacre Wurm . It's not a win condition, and it's ineffective as a board wipe. It's not a good fit for the deck.

In terms of replacements for Vela the Night-Clad , you should run something that gives you a definitive win, but also functions well as a stand-alone card. What's wrong with the Blue Sun's Zenith win con?

Blue Sun's Zenith is a valid win. Just seems like there's to many ways to mess it up. Lol. Having to deck one person at a time vs killing everyone at the same time. Just my preference

By the time you're casting Blue Sun's Zenith , you should have your library in your hand, and every counterspell you could possibly ever need. Not that you need any; you'll have Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir on the board.

Victory with this list is complete victory.

Nothing is wrong with Blue Sun's Zenith . I very much agree that it's a really solid card. Its more of an underlying thing with the deck.

Let me liken it to a metaphor about the Apache helicopter. So, when Boeing designed the Apache, the said "we want it to be fast". As such it has two stupidly powerful motors on each side. and it shows, the top speed of the helicopter is just under 300km/h (~180mph for our imperial friends out there). The only problem is that with the military application of the helicopter, the engines are a dead giveaway on location. And RPGs are just faster. So to compensate for the volume of noise, they build acousitc attenuation into the engine housing. WHich meant that the enines were running hot. So then they designed a custom exhause system to compensate. And the result, moderately quiet, thermally quiet and fast helicopter. Awesome. Regardless on your inclination to military endevours or not, there is a lot of really beautiful engineering that has gone on here.

So if I could reel it back in. Your deck is very similar. Its a competetive deck, so the key defining point is that it's faster than most. Becasue in competetive magic, better generally means faster. Things like Mana Vault , Grim Monolith , Mana Crypt are all really fast cards, but with drawbacks. I'm presuming that a lot of the games, you don't ever untap monolith after you've used it once. Its the same as running Dark Ritual . So the deck is fast, but usually leaves you with no cards in hand very quickly. And from playing Damia myself, I know that sometimes you can have a situation where your opening hand ramp alone only gets you to 5 or 6 mana. So to compensate you put things like Mystic Remora and Necropotence in.

But becasue the deck is fast it means that it will draw hate, and you've spent a lot of card spaces (I count 19 for your deck) on mana ramp. An the deck is running black and blue, giving you access to a lof of tutors. Once you look at hte remaining cards spaces there aren't really enough to go for a fast creature beats strategy, especially in 4 player. and not only that but one well timed field wipe and you're left floundering. Beats are fragile. Not to mention combos usually require less cards. But combos are also fragile and so you've packed your deck with counterspells (again, I counted 13, with 2 instant speed ways of getting more to hand as well as Misdirection and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to help win counter wars). And the idea is to have combos with more control.

But realistically speaking, your deck runs one win combo. Sure, you can venser + deadeye lots of stuff, but thats not winning. And without infinite mana its ok, but more annoying than anything else. For everybody involved. there are realistically two cards in your deck which the deck hinges on, Blue Sun's Zenith and Palinchron .

The other path to take is to make the deck more robust, with more fallback combos. I'm not saying make the whole deck combotasic and have no control, but have options. And thats not a "you should modify your deck" because if it works as is (which it seems to) then great!

It also comes down to your meta. And sometimes I would rather my opponent have the big creature on the battlefield and me with a kill spell in my hand over countering it to begin with. Because why not. The attention is on them, and if they don't attack me / isn't disrupting my plays then realistically, who cares.

TL;DR - Less combos and more control is nice, but strictly speaking worst case scenario a bit of combo flexibility is also important.

Despite that wall of text, I don't want it to sound like me yelling "Dies to removal" or "build a better deck IMO" because I have a lot of respect for your deck. It IS very well built. I just think that metas also have a lot to do with deck construction.