@enpc: Chord of Calling is pretty risky, I feel. Yes, I can use convoke to slightly reduce its cost, but most of the creatures I'm likely to have out early have tap abilities. Several of the non-tap creatures don't come out until my endgame. In that light, convoke really doesn't promise a whole lot.

I generally don't suffer. Nobody plays Mind Twist and Thoughtseize at the competitive multiplayer level. They're just too narrow in effect; you expend resources to stop a single player, and you end up making yourself a target for vendettas and setting yourself back on resources. Even if someone attempts to kill Necropotence immediately, I can respond by refilling or overfilling my hand to keep my options open.

@imarockyou: Stifle has actually been in the paper list for a while, and it seems to be proving its worth. Plus, this particular Stifle is a foil German one.

I have a question about the nature of the competitive Birthing Pod s you play in: do players deliberately make card choices to stop others from having fun in order to win? Examples of this may include playing Iona, Shield of Emeria to potentially shut out a mono-color player, or playing Blazing Archon when you are expecting lots of creatures. Any effort to inhibit the fun of other players just for the sake of winning the game?

@thispersonisagenius: Your question is very difficult to answer because you're using a definition of fun that doesn't necessarily apply to the mindsets common in competitive circles.

I'll explain. I take (perhaps masochistic) pleasure in high-stakes, high-tension, cutthroat games. It's exhilarating to think that a single misplay even at the mulligan stage can determine your game. Every play is very strategic, and victory is supremely satisfying when you reflect on all you had to do correctly to achieve it.

Now, it seems like you're trying to apply the traditional Timmy definition of fun to competitive EDH, and that doesn't really work in any direct sense. Yes, people like to make plays, but to play in the highest level of competition in any format, you need to accept that plays like Iona, Shield of Emeria or counterspells are distinct and real possibilities and even probabilities. getting shut down isn't necessarily unfun at this point because significant emphasis is placed on the pure thrill of facing an opponent who's as determined to win as you are.

It's kind of like playing paintball or airsoft. You get an adrenaline rush when you realize the only thing stopping you from losing to your opponents is everything. Every decision -- every minute detail -- affects what happens over the course of the game, and it's the acute awareness of that fact, combined with the drive to win, that makes playing the game such a fun experience. Winning is fun, but losing isn't not fun (double negatives be damned).

That's part of the reason I play this deck only in competitive pods. Games are only mutually fun if players have mutual definitions of fun. I don't take this deck to a casual pod because I know this isn't the kind of experience they value, and I don't have fun if I'm depriving others of the kind of experience they want.

Just my opinion, but what about Lotus Petal ? Not too much user later in the game, but for start it can be used for countering or destroying something with your Nature's Claim IF you happen to not have the correct starting mana.

Fair enough. I would've thought things like Thoughtseize would get some play, if not just for an excuse to look at an oponent's hand. But I appreciate outside of that its pretty lackluster and usually you need to see their hand to know if you should cast it in the first place. Good ol' catch 22. I guess you would be better off just running Gitaxian Probe . One thing that I've always noticed about your deck (and I know this is entirely meta dependent) is that you run little to no after-the-fact control. Technically speaking you only run one creature kill spell and one non-creature kill spell. I know you can venser something back to hand and then counter it on the replay but as removal goes it seems like a bit of a waste, the whole 2 for 1 thing. Is it just because the meta isn't very permanent based? At top tier I'm guessing a fair chunk of the decks are U/G/x decks so that they have access to things like Deadeye Navigator and Tooth and Nail and all of the good counterspells. but how do you go against things like Vexing Shusher (his ilk may not be played) and Boseiju, Who Shelters All ? I appreciate things like Strip Mine help but with every deck running their own one and presumably their own Crucible of Worlds too do you run into times where a trusty Doom Blade (O.N.O.) would be a better move than a counterspell? The reason I ask is because I come from a fairly permanent based meta where combat damage is 75% of the victory condition. Thoughts?

Epochalyptik your previous comment begs the question: What do you take to more casual pods?

@Flornhale: Lotus Petal is only really good if I start with it in my opening hand. If I draw it after turn one or two, it's basically a worse land because I lose it after I use it. The marginal advantage isn't really worth the risk.

@enpc: That's one of the ongoing and deeply theoretical debates about this deck. Usually, it's a debate about the balance between counterspells and permanent removal. While permanent removal is certainly valuable, counterspells allow me to react to the most critical permanent spells (assuming they aren't cheated in) and to other counterspells. They're both offense and defense. Permanent removal has the advantage of allowing me to deal with threats that make it to the field, but it's simultaneously limited by that application because it can only be used against permanents (assuming they aren't indestructible or otherwise impervious to removal spells).

I suppose it's different for you. Combat doesn't really exist at the competitive multiplayer level unless we're talking about infinite token attacks or something of that nature. It's just not an effective way to end games against multiple combo players. I'll use combat if I have the opportunity to poke an opponent down a few less Necropotence activations or something similar, but creatures are used largely for their abilities, not their brawn.

@Ohthenoises: I suppose several people want to ask that question at various points. I don't really have a dedicated casual deck. I have a budget Rafiq deck, but even though it's under $50, it kinds of cleans up house. I generally don't play it, though.

I'm slowly designing a few casual options, but I play so little that it doesn't really make sense for me to spend resources building them right now. Part of the problem is that I get really into an idea, but just in theory. I start building the deck and it's either overpowering (surprisingly not because of monetary value; I just tend to build powerful decks with what I have available) or doesn't come out as I had envisioned.

I might try experimenting some more.

For less tuned variants I find my greatest success comes from finding a pre-existing, and solid, archetype, and then expanding it along that theme. My Kruphix, God of Horizons , and it's predecessor Omnath, Locus of Mana regularly cleans up my shop. (So much so that I have to put myself on a self imposed losing streak to not make myself a huge target.) The deck is based on elfball and feels like one when you play it. I have a few others that are like that as well and I'm helping a friend build soul sisters Oloro.

I just enjoy the deckbuilding process for EDH, the play is secondary.

Why not Contamination ? This card give you at least one turn, is almost a black Time Walk .

Why not Omniscience , Enter the Infinite and Laboratory Maniac combo, the best is win, not only kill opponents one by one.

Great deck anyway :)

Because people actually play black in EDH and so Contamination is sometimes a massive waste of a slot? Furthermore it would only last for a turn (most likely) making it fairly inconsequential.

The combo you suggested requires several cards that cost a great deal of mana, are easy to counter, are easy to destroy and do nothing useful outside of the combo itself. Remember that this deck is aiming for durability - no card should be a dead card.

@DarkHamlet: ChiefBell pretty much nailed it. If you look closely at the decklist as it currently is, the winning combos use interchangeable pieces. This helps improve the deck's resilience. If one of my combos is disabled or interrupted, I can transition into a secondary combo pretty easily.

Additionally, it is not important that I have a single spell or strategy kill every opponent simultaneously. Blue Sun's Zenith is extremely effective at killing players right after one another in the same step. True global instakills are almost always awful as utility spells because they sacrifice efficiency and utility in exchange for being able to hit all opponents or do something that affects all opponents.

Therefore, the Omniscience + Enter the Infinite + Laboratory Maniac combo is not worth including. It's far too expensive, the pieces are only mediocre on their own, and they don't really interact with anything else in the deck. I suppose Omniscience technically supports the infinite mana combo, but it's also a 10-drop.

Also, Contamination shuts down all of my control, and it's a slow 3-drop that doesn't really do anything but stall everyone by a turn.

Hall of Gemstone Practically does the same thing.

Hall of Gemstone is good only in very specific decks. This is not one of them; I need access to my colors. It's possible, I suppose, to combo out using only blue, but it's much, much harder.

Testing of Carpet of Flowers has deemed it more than good enough to warrant a spot.

I've got a question about mulligan decisions with this deck. Does your opener need to have a mana accelerant, counterspell/other control piece, draw engine, etc.? What metrics do you follow when making mulligans?

Mulligan conditions are, well, conditional. I try never to start with fewer than three lands in my hand, or more than four. I like to see either a land per turn accelerator, a ramp spell, or a ramp rock (multiple accelerators are fine). Generally, I also like a counterspell or tutor and something else. Again, it's situational. I'm never guaranteed an optimal opener, even after mulls.

Mulls themselves are one of the largely intuitive things in Magic; it's extraordinarily difficult to teach mulligan technique beyond a few basic principles.

This deck is ridiculous! I LOVE it! I really hope you don't think of this as a "spam" comment, I just really want to say how much I love this deck!

I just have one question: What exactly do you fetch with Green Sun's Zenith ? Im not at all questioning its ability for I run it in my EDH deck, im just wondering what exactly you fetch with it... Is it turn one green sun for 0 and fetch Dryad Arbor ? Is it to get out Azusa, Lost but Seeking as fast as possible and ramp like crazy? Just curious.

Again, love the deck. If I havent already +1'd it, I will soon.

@TheGamer: I appreciate the comment.

Green Sun's Zenith can fetch a number of different creatures. Typical choices include Dryad Arbor , Deathrite Shaman , and Lotus Cobra .

I typically don't get Azusa, Lost but Seeking unless I have Crucible of Worlds . Azusa, Lost but Seeking is certainly a good card, but the ability is often less relevant by the time I get enough mana to Green Sun's Zenith for it.

Epo, I got a question and I know how silly this may sound, but what are your thoughts on signets? I have neither a lotus cobra or three visits and sometimes really miss a turn 2 accelerator, so that got me thinking about signets or rampant growth.

If you're going for a budget version of this deck, then signets are passable. I'm personally ambivalent about them. I don't like mana producers that only make mana if you pay mana. That said, they're nice filters, and they do technically ramp.

Would you say Talismans are better since they don't need mana to make mana?

It's mostly up to you. I like that the talismans don't require mana input to function, and the 1 damage per tap (assuming you tap for color) is pretty irrelevant in EDH.

True, sad thing though is that you only have one talisman that taps for the mana we use. I'll try it this weekend if I have the chance.

Greetings from Germany. I have been testing your deck recently and I thought Restore would be pretty decent in this deck. You get the ability to play your lands from your graveyard, which are always full because of fetchlands, the land enters the battlefield untapped and you even get the possibility to steal lands from other players. A stolen Gaea's Cradle due to Strip Mine seems nice.

I hope my english is unterstandable.

Gohrin