its so hard to suggest cards for your deck! lol

Thats weird, I thought I wrote another comment. Well anyway, it went something like:

I only suggested Argothian Elder because its pretty much a one card combo (as it is usually pretty easy to swap out a single land). I like the build though, very solid.

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is of debatable usefulness. I find it too vulnerable, inconsistent, and unnecessary just by comparison to the other cards in the deck.

Argothian Elder also requires a mana doubler of some kind to go infinite and it doesn't do anything else. I kind of wish Palinchron itself had additional utility, but I guess the ability to bounce itself kind of counts/makes up for that.

I've temporarily replaced Burgeoning with Exploration because it's more consistent and immediate. I'm wondering if I should run both, as I like the idea of being able to dump lands onto the field quickly (especially when my general is out).

I would think card:Praetor's Grasp would just be simply better in here then Bribery , your thoughts?

+1 man. This looks freakin devastating. I have never seen such a deticated edh player. Any time me and some friends have tried it out all our decks were purely fun. Since your into this sort of format would you mind checking out The "Roulette" Format? You might like it. If you do, tell your friends please!

@Internet_the_Explorer: Although card:Praetor's Grasp costs less and can find any card, the fact that Bribery puts the selected card directly onto the battlefield makes it more effective in this deck. Being able to find an Eldrazi or a control creature and not require another payment to get that card into play makes it extremely strong.

@UGplayerWillie: Roulette looks interesting. I can see the appeal of the format, but I don't think it is much like the kind of EDH I play.

Cards to Consider

Wasteland

Exsanguinate

Mana Reflection

Stroke of Genius

Recurring Insight

Future Sight / Magus of the Future

Vampiric Tutor

Realms Uncharted

Tezzeret the Seeker

Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith (Rings works with 19)

Decree of Pain

Spell Crumple

Mnemonic Wall

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

Fierce Empath

Sphinx of Uthuun

Equilibrium

Omniscience

Turnabout

Knowledge Exploitation

Muddle the Mixture

Perplex

card:Praetor's Counsel

Rite of Replication

Mirari

Solemn Simulacrum

Wood Elves

Regrowth

Cloudstone Curio

Animate Dead

Diabolic Servitude

You currently have 7 card draw mechanisms and 9 mana accelerators. I believe your mana acceleration count should increase slightly and there are several points in the deck that require optimizing. Think you have a few too many fetch lands, drop it to three-or-four. And some additional recursion would be good as well. Might even consider running The Mimeoplasm in the deck!

First and foremost, you do not have enough basic lands. Ruination is a thing in Tier1 EDH play, you need to plan for it. Basic lands are a good thing, they're the most stable, functional, and easy to work with lands on the planet - they literally have no downside. I would recommend at least 3 forests, 3 islands, and 2 swamps. You're running Urborg, so swamps are less essential.

Now... your description indicates that this wants to be a ComboDeck, yet you only have one legitimate combo piece. If you're going to combo, might as well friggin' COMBO LIKE A BOSS! Palinchron alone won't keep you warm at night, a clever player would find a way around it. Plus you're running so few mana-dumps, infinite mana won't actually get you that much. Add some burn like Exsanguinate or any of the other awesome possibilities and see your win ratio spike.

Wasteland is like a worse Strip Mine . A friend of mine plays both in his deck, but I'm not sure I want to tax the land base with any more colorless lands.

I recently cut Exsanguinate because it didn't do anything besides serve as a wincon with infinite mana. It wasn't good enough as a utilitarian spell.

Mana Reflection seems unnecessary. My friend recently cut it from his own list for this reason. If it cost less or did more it would be more likely to make the cut.

Stroke of Genius is like a worse card:Blue Sun's Zenith. I prefer the reshuffle and reuse capability to the low color intensity.

I'm not sure what I would drop for Recurring Insight . It's a decent draw card, but I'm not sure its necessary.

Future Sight and Magus of the Future were cut from the deck because they didn't offer enough advantage.

Vampiric Tutor is in the deck already.

Realms Uncharted doesn't seem to offer much, especially since the lands don't go onto the battlefield.

Tezzeret the Seeker is a bit slow and kind of unnecessary. If it cost less, it might make the cut.

Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith seem below par on their own. Together they work but they aren't as easy to tutor/set up.

Decree of Pain got cut because it was too expensive. Tapping out for a boardwipe at sorcery speed just wasn't worth it.

Spell Crumple is like a worse Hinder and I feel it isn't as necessary as the other counterspells.

Mnemonic Wall isn't great. The mana cost is a bit prohibitive. I'd sooner run Regrowth .

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant was recently suggested. I feel it doesn't offer that much to the deck considering how hard it is to flip and how easy it is to kill.

Fierce Empath doesn't really serve much of a purpose in this deck.

Sphinx of Uthuun is underwhelming. Paying 7 for a sorcery speed Fact or Fiction isn't exactly a great move.

Equilibrium isn't as helpful as first impressions might lead you to believe. I don't often cast creature spells. I also don't usually play against decks where the bounce effect would win me the game (I mostly face off against other combo/control decks).

Omniscience is underwhelming. It's a 10-drop and I can easily win the game before I would even cast it let alone assemble the rest of the cards to make it work.

Turnabout seems unnecessary.

Knowledge Exploitation is a bit expensive. Although it's nice, I don't play any rogues, never attack, and can probably win another way when I would be able to cast it anyway.

Muddle the Mixture is an alright card in this deck, but the 2-drop slot is not the most ideal one to transmute for and it's a bit limited in what it can counter. I'll think about this one over the next few games.

Perplex transmutes for 3-drops (better than transmuting for 2-drops), but feels lacking as a counterspell. I suppose it's not bad, but a hard counter would be better.

card:Praetor's Counsel seems unnecessary given that card:Yawgmoth's Will basically does the same thing for less mana (which is important because I like to win the turn I cast something like this).

Rite of Replication is unnecessary. There aren't many creatures worth copying at sorcery speed for that much mana and none of them will win me the game.

Mirari is just too expensive to cast and use.

Considering there are only 3 basics in the deck, Solemn Simulacrum is a bit underwhelming. If I'm spending 4 to ramp, I want to be finding duals and putting them in untapped.

Wood Elves is in a similar position. It's just outclassed by card:Nature's Lore and Skyshroud Claim .

Regrowth is something I've been considering, but I'm not convinced it's worth it.

Cloudstone Curio is unnecessary. This deck can't really abuse this card the way it needs to.

Animate Dead seems unnecessary. I don't often find a situation in game where I could cast it and even less frequently find times when it would be beneficial to cast. Same with Diabolic Servitude .

The high fetch count makes this deck work beautifully. It allows me to always have access to the colors I need when I need them. I much prefer them to pain or core lands.

The Mimeoplasm is unnecessary. Given how seldom I ever want reanimator spells it seems even less viable.

Basic lands do have a downside - they're basics. They don't offer additional utility and they don't tap for more than one color. Given the color saturation of the deck, I really don't want to rely on them at all. I would replace them if there were other fetchable duals.

I'm not sure you read the description. There are many legitimate combos in the deck, not all of which revolve around Palinchron . While a clever player can find a way around Palinchron , a cleverer one will be one step ahead of that player anyway. I focus on heavy control and I have failsafe options should Palinchron get exiled or something.

Infinite mana does plenty for me. There are four primary wincons with infinite mana up and I've never had one fail. Exsanguinate was cut earlier for being too one-dimensional in application.

The win ratio of this deck is already extremely high. When I choose cards, I make the decisions based on how powerful and effective they are. I don't want to run something if there are better alternatives. I also think everything needs to serve a purpose. I don't want 7-drops that don't win me the game immediately.

what turn do you normally win on and at what mana? i know every game is inherently different but with a combo deck i would imagine they usually play out in a similar reliable way most games? hell most of my decks work very reliably and get me wins reliably only difference I have 10 cards that are missing making my deck closer to $400 ish rather than $2000 haha :-) and obviously slightly less reliable and therefore competetive aka some original dual lands missing and of course the money counters are missing along with the Pernicious Deed . i ask because surely getting a Omniscience into play = win? although i suppose when i cast that card my Arcanis the Omnipotent can draw me alot of cards quickly and easily and cheaply to give me stuff to cast...i may rejig either my arcanis or sen triplets to be more competetive...i digress...how about Vedalken Orrery ? that card wins game alone just like the leyline and is invaluable to a control player and isn't too expensive IMO but then again you may think differently! i agree that Exploration would work better than Burgeoning but both should probably be included because your general will fill your hand with land alot, also maybe add Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur obviously really expensive but the flash avoids this problem as you can just bide your time possibly? and that thing can end games if you can back it up like a boss or cheat it out somehow

I generally win when I get to 9-12 mana, depending on the counterspell protection I have. The turn number depends on the ramp that game.

Though Omniscience is certainly a decent card, it is too expensive and limited to be of great usefulness.

Vedalken Orrery was cut because it wasn't as good as it needed to be. Leyline of Anticipation does everything Orrery does, but has the advantage of being a turn-0 play.

Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is too expensive to be as applicable as it needs to be. At 10 mana, I should be winning as soon as I tap. My general serves the same purpose for less. If Jin was a 6-drop, it'd be a more likely candidate for inclusion.

Yes, but the thing here is that I proxied this deck and have been playing with it at my local gamestore. And I DONT win when i tap 9-12... so... i think that you do need more wincons.

With all due respect, you may not be playing the deck in the most optimal fashion. With any EDH deck, half of your victory/loss comes from the deck and half from you as a player. If you aren't familiar with the deck and all the interactions or even with playing control in general, you should expect to have some difficulty.

I can only recall a few times (literal few, maybe 3 tops) where I tapped 9-12 and didn't win. The deck is consistent and the cards are all there. How are you playing it? What do you typically do/play on each turn?

i counter their stuff, and tutor up my lands for the infinate... with protection, usually with prime time. Then, i get palinchron and I can go infinite with enchantment/artifact/land protection but from there, i dont have much options beyond blue suns zenith...

i would strongly suggest adding the rings of brighthearth+mana reflection+basalt monolith

Rings of Brighthearth , Mana Reflection , and Basalt Monolith are not good enough on their own and are only average in the deck. I cannot justify adding them.

There are plenty of options besides card:Blue Sun's Zenith. Venser, Shaper Savant pairs with the Palinchron you used to get infinite mana. Capsize works with infinite mana alone. Other win-cons are available depending on board state.

I don't see how tutoring lands is necessary. The deck can go infinite just fine without ever doing that. Unless you mean ramping.

I've been playtesting it and it consistenly gets a win around turn 7-turn 10, so i don't see a problem with how its operating.

Does it ever get boring though? My playgroup and I have some strong decks but my friend and I easily stick out as the power players in the group. I used to run combo decks like this (see my deck:riddle-of-the-sphinx sharuum edh) and it just got boring. Like I was always playing by myself building my combos while the other players politicized away. Do you ever get that feeling ever? Or do you usually play competitively.

Competitive play is where I feel most at home. I can see how this kind of deck would get boring (or even shunned) in a casual environment, but I typically play purely to win. Often I'm playing for some kind of prize. There's a dark beauty about watching a list like this perform consistently and dominantly in high pressure games where something is actually on the line.

Its definitely still a fun style to play. Its kinda like building an unstoppable nuclear device that is going to detonate regardless if anybody wants it to or not.

But this type of deck would definitely get me shunned for a while, at least until I came up with something more casual. Which is now why I run a Norin EDH haha

not sure if someone has mentioned this but how about Birthing Pod can help find some creatures to enable combos and how about GraveTitan/Massacre Wurm ? infinite mana+navigator=infinite zombies or clears everyones board and deals damage. Acidic Slime can be useful.

There aren't enough creatures for Birthing Pod to be effective. The progression would be awkward as well, since I play utility creatures as I draw/afford them and lack a large base of low-drop creatures worthy of being podded into others.

Grave Titan and Massacre Wurm are too dependent and one-dimensional. The former requires me to attack with creatures that lack haste and the latter is rarely relevant at the high level of competitive play. I normally face off against other combo/control decks that only have one or two creatures out at once. Neither of these two is really utilitarian and they don't really help me achieve my goals on their own.

Acidic Slime was cut a while ago. I found it to be too slow/expensive. Although it's decent removal and it can hit a number of relevant targets, it just doesn't offer enough to justify its price.

Well anyway +1 for the marketing (http://tappedout.net/help-desk/) that was sneaky.

Haha when I was redesigning the help desk, I needed a deck that could be linked as an example, had a straightforward slug name, and wasn't likely to change in slug name anytime soon.

hahaha, BIG fan of limduls vault... I would seriously suggest acidic slime, as it can take out HUGE creatures, along with anything else that is preventing combos for going off...

also, as someone with a budget, how would you suggest reworking the mana base?

The thing is, I rarely attack or get attacked and Acidic Slime doesn't shoot creatures on ETB. It's like a 5-drop Vindicate with less targeting options and I don't really need it for anything other than its ETB effect. I prefer a heavily counterspell based approach because it's more flexible in dealing with threats and tends to be less mana intensive (although it does demand constant access to blue mana).

The pain lands and core lands (in this case, Underground River , Yavimaya Coast , Llanowar Wastes , Drowned Catacomb , Hinterland Harbor , and Woodland Cemetery ) offer some cheap alternatives to the fetch/dual/shock setup I have. The tricky thing will be finding the right balance of lands. Due to this deck's heavy color saturation it kind of needs the extreme consistency of the FDS landbase in its 9:3:3 ratio. You'll have to be careful about what cards you include, since heavily saturated mana costs can lead to slower gameplay and even defeat.

City of Brass , Dimir Aqueduct , Simic Growth Chamber , Golgari Rot Farm , Deserted Temple , Exotic Orchard , and Rupture Spire are some other cheap alternatives. Obviously the ETB tapped effects of some of these lands make them a bit slow, but they're still decent.

ok, what about basics, are they better then the pain lands?also, you do know that phantasmal image + pally is infinate, also, have you considered Guided Passage instead of Intuition . You get one more card, and yes, you dont get to choose them but really, the opponent is doing the choosing anyways and nothing goes to your graveyard, AND to be honest, theres not really any cards you wouldnt want in your hand, or that couldnt help your towards your goal? what u think bout that