Also, and I really hate double posting, but I have to ask. Why damia? Is it strictly for the card advantage or just the colors? If for colors then wouldn't mineoplasm work slightly better? His ability to pick combo pieces out of graveyard seems decent enough.

There's a section in the primer about why I chose Damia.

Any suggestions for a Less competitive meta? By that I mean decks less combocentric (If that's even a word,) more focused on a slower game with incidental combos and larger creatures.

You probably don't want to play this deck in a meta that doesn't focus on combos. This deck only wins through combos.

If you're determined to mix the two, you'll probably end up where this deck started: BUG goodstuff with combo finishers "just in case." This isn't a very efficient model because it requires that you split your attention and resources between two different strategies, and there will always be the temptation to combo out and secure the win (and the corresponding criticism that this will draw from your opponents).

I really liked the thought challenge. Please consider adding additional ones.

Have you thought of running abrupt decay? I understand it sometimes loses value in the late game but can be an uncounterable boon early on.

what do you think of Reality Shift?

@goon1993: Abrupt Decay is a good card, but it's expensive and limited for its role. I know CMC 2 is pretty standard for permanent removal, but the restriction means that it can't hit a wide range of relevant permanents (especially combo permanents), and the uncounterability doesn't really compensate for that.

@Weirdhat: See comments #67-74 for a more detailed discussion of Reality Shift. The tl;dr version is basically this: there are cheaper removal spells that I'd sooner run. The manifest ability is a bit of a wildcard, and it can't definitively be said to be good or bad (I don't like the inherent risk of it).

If you were to build this deck without an infinite combo, what might you use to win?

@sph0nz: This deck's only purpose is to combo. I wouldn't build it without those combos.

I think the question you really mean to ask is "What other options does BUG have?" The answer to that question is "many." You could go with reanimator, a la mimeoplasm, but I personally don't like that route. BUG goodstuff is very viable because you get access to a lot of independently strong creatures and utility engines. You could go for a more control/stax approach (although stax is normally a Grixis thing).

Could Bazaar of Baghdad have a place here?

@klone13: I'm not really sold on it. You could choose to include it in your own variant of this deck, but I don't like the fact that it doesn't tap for mana. Its applications are therefore limited.

Right, I get that it's a combo deck and maybe I should have rephrased it to mean a non infinite combo deck. I'm just curious as to what options there would be for damia since I am building this deck, but I only play combo decks as it is, and my playgroup gets tired of facing any combo deck I play, and I'm the first target at my LGS because I play combo.

So I was just wondering what your thoughts are on if incremental advantage is viable rather than just suddenly comboing out and winning for a change of pace.

@sph0nz: It's viable, yes, but I think the deck would end up looking more like goodstuff than how it currently looks. You might cut a bit of the control and all of the combo-oriented cards and replace them with other advantage generators.

If you wanted to, you could go the reanimator route, but The Mimeoplasm would probably be your go-to for that. Or Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Those decks are generally built with a different shell, but I suppose you could use this one to reasonable effect.

I guess part of the problem I'm having here is that I don't quite understand where you want to take the deck. "Incremental advantage" can mean a lot of things. Are you actually looking to play goodstuff?

Hello Epochalyptik.

How can i ask you some questions in private about this deck ?

I'm new and i have "noob" questions. I dont want to pollute this page with my questions.

Than you !

@Sethtes: Ask away. Any and all relevant questions are welcomed on this page, even if you think they're basic or may have already been answered. This discussion is as much for the general public as it is for me.

Oh well. I was asking how to "try" your deck ?

I really love the concept and your decklist but even if i put sideboard and maybeboard away, i count 102 cards. I would like to "try" with proxy, to feel the thing cause i think you can be an inspiration for my first edh deck building.

Then, what cards can i put away to try a basical list of your deck ?

And scuse my bad english, i m french. :)

Thank you by advance.

Epochalyptik,

I agree completely that there are better generals for reanimator and I don't want to go that route. I already run a jarad ooze combo deck and a nin combo deck, which used to be based on reset/turnabout/reiterate but is now an artifact combo deck utilizing welder.

So I'm just trying to figure out a way to differentiate this deck from nin more because the wincon in nin was also blue sun with infinite mana, which is great.

I'm just having a hard time thinking of any finishers without infinite combos involved because incremental blue sun draw for opponents (for example, nin could have been built that way rather than going infinite) would be far less effective.

I'm also not seeing the benefit of playing goodstuff because trying to close the game out with say vorinclex and Jin gitaxis or some other control finisher big dude doesn't seem that good to win in multiplayer and they don't really synergiize with the gameplan to keep the cmc low in order to empty your hand often so it can be refilled. What sort of strong synergies are available without going infinite that can still win the game? It seems an impossible question to answer.

On incremental advantages and strong synergies, For instance, voltaic key combos with monoliths and the like but doesn't go infinite. That is strong synergy that gives you incremental advantage.

@Sethtes: The deck itself is the legal 100 cards, including commander. It's just that some cards appear in multiple categories.

The "On a budget?" section of the primer explains which cards you can replace if you want to run a less expensive version of the deck (I think that may be what you're asking).

Whatever modifications you make, the core of the deck should be preserved. The cards listed under "Wincon" are the driving force. You're free to add combo cards or change up the rest of the list, but I suggest keeping the seven cards that are critical to the combo.

@sph0nz: Unfortunately, combo happens to be the most effective and reliable win condition in multiplayer EDH. It's hard to emulate the effectiveness of a combo strategy without actually using any infinite combos or hard locks.

Some cards that fit your definition of "incremental advantage":

• Tezzeret the Seeker

  Pseudo-ramp that finds and untaps ramp rocks (and helps you get around the pay-to-untap clauses on Mana Vault and Grim Monolith).

• Prime Speaker Zegana

  Interacts with Deadeye Navigator without going infinite, and it provides draw security in case Damia dies.

• Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix

  These aren't in my deck because they're too slow, but they could easily have a home in a slower and less combo-oriented version of this build.

Is there a more good stuff list of this? I can't seem to find the original deck list...

The original deck list is long gone. Are you looking for specific suggestions?

My meta is a bit less competitive most often deck still have combos but are more of midrange/control untill combo. There are a few non combo a fast Edric deck and 2 reanimator decks. I was wondering what card should go in for a slower and less combo meta?

You could try for cards like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, which don't have to be played only during the combo turn. You could also make use of Seedborn Muse, and Prophet of Kruphix, and you could incorporate some non-combo interactions with Deadeye Navigator (e.g., Mystic Snake, Voidmage Husher). Gilded Drake is also decent in a slower, tuned meta.

In general, go for more goodstuff control; you don't have to prioritize combos in order to use this shell.

Gotcha any suggestions for what to take out? And is Glen Elendra Archmage go enough for this?

Glen Elendra Archmage was in older versions, she was cut because she doesn't fit the plan of the current version(if I remember right). If you're playing a goodstuff build she's very good.