You mentioned in the Spoiler thread the Forest finders you run. Does this make the BG check at all tempting?

Not really. The Forest finders are in the deck because they get lands untapped. The fetchable checks are almost guaranteed to never enter untapped in this deck except as a late-game play when I've exhausted all other fetch options and gotten my basics out (and even then, I'd probably have to be dropping basics to even include them because the other lands are too important).

The only reason I'm even considering the one (again, assuming it's on WOTC's list for the next set) is to provide slightly more padding for that color pair.

I view the and tentative/speculative fetchable checks as fancier tap lands that don't really fit with the deck's tempo. They aren't necessary for the color fixing; the ABURs and shocks, along with the non-land fixing, are sufficient in that regard.

First i have to say i love your deck. i am crafting my own damia deck using yours for inspiration. I am curious what made you consider Arbor Elf as part of the deck? i am considering it for mine but i cant figure out what to cut. any suggestions would be awesome http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-08-15-damia-sage-of-stone-help/

Arbor Elf can untap dual lands, which means I can typically produce another mana of whatever color I need. It's like a second Birds of Paradise, and the ramp and color fixing are both invaluable at that cost.

I also used to run Utopia Sprawl, and Arbor Elf was quite useful in conjunction with the enchanted land.

the real question is, and slap me if you heard this before, how would you build a budget/multiplayer oriented BUG?

also, you already went over Kiora's Follower, correct?

This deck is multiplayer oriented.

As for budget, it's hard to translate this deck to a budget list without giving some things up. The combo pieces themselves are fairly inexpensive, so it's really about the shell you build for them.

Imperial Seal is the first cut for a budget list.

The land base will have to become worse; that much is inevitable. If you cut the ABUR duals and the six off-color fetches, then you can save a significant amount of money. The downside is that you lose a lot of consistency and speed, and some of the saturated costs like that of Necropotence become more troublesome.

You could also cut Mana Crypt and Mana Drain if you really needed to save money.

Kiora's Follower is covered here.

That link 404s

Fixed.

fair enough. i asked because i always thought this was a 1v1 BUG deck. i failed at my attempt at a mimeoplasm so ive hit a rough patch for deck ideas.

Sylvan Scrying used to be in the deck, no? or was it too restrictive and slow for what you were doing?

This deck doesn't do as well in competitive 1v1 matchups, which tend to be faster.

Sylvan Scrying was not in the deck. It's covered here.

must be old age then. thank you

For budget, one could still run the five KTK fetches which are somewhat inexpensive right now. It would still grant a decent landbase, even without Crucible. And the new latelands (is that what we're calling them?) should make three color budget lists more accessible still.

*tangolands

https://m.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH had a competitive edh tournament. The winning deck was identical to yours with three exceptions. Dig Through Time, Diabolic Intent, and Pongify replaced Voidslime, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Venser, Shaper Savant. Venser would seem to be a glaring ommission. The other two by your own designation are close to being cut. What is your opinion of the changes?

I agree with dropping Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Voidslime; they've been on the chopping block for a while. Pongify and Diabolic Intent are logical substitutions. What I don't agree with, as you anticipated, is cutting Venser, Shaper Savant for Dig Through Time.

Venser, Shaper Savant is a functional component of the deck, and it's a combo finisher. I suppose that, once the combo goes off, I could use Cyclonic Rift to deal with anything that might prevent me from targeting an opponent with Blue Sun's Zenith, and, in that sense, Venser, Shaper Savant could theoretically be considered extraneous. But that seems like an unnecessary move. I'd need to test the deck before I felt comfortable making that change.

I also would need to test Dig Through Time. I dismissed it when it was first spoiled, but I wonder whether the card advantage could be worthwhile. I still think I would play something like Ghostly Flicker over it, though, just for security for the combo.

Dig Through Time is pretty solid. It's rare that you'll get to delve all 6 however generally you'll pay 3-5 mana total. On the whole, I've been impressed by it as a card. The other card worth mention is Jace's Ingenuity. While it's a fixed 5 mana, drawing 3 cards at instant speed is solid. And there is a surprisingly noticable difference in tempo between drawing 2 cards and drawing 3, much more than you'd expect.

My issue with Jace's Ingenuity is the cost. It's staggering for a deck that prides itself on efficient budgeting. I think Treasure Cruise would be preferable, even at sorcery speed.

How's this for a revelation? I initially dismissed both Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, but it seems that they may be worth testing after all.

I'm thinking about dropping Dryad Arbor. The Green Sun's Zenith fetch is alright, but I think there's an issue with the summoning sickness and vulnerability to sweepers. It's also not a good land to have to play if you don't have an Exploration effect and a second land.

I'd like to test Toxic Deluge over Damnation for the lower and less saturated cost.

I run Dryad Arbor in my Saffi Eriksdotter deck. While a T1 GSZ is good, I find that its the most relevant with Crucible of Worlds/Skullclamp or cards like Gaea's Cradle.

Toxic Deluge is good. Its nice that you can scale it to miss Damia however it does get expensive life wise when you need to kill something big. The fact that its not double black is a big selling point though.

Also, I wouldn't cut Venser, Shaper Savant. He's too good. Not only does it provide your deck with after the fact creature removal (albeit temporary) but since you don't run Mindbreak Trap, he's the only thing you run that can deal with uncounterable spells. And while you have Strip Mine / Wasteland for cards like Boseiju, Who Shelters All, things like Dragonlord Dromoka / Counterflux which are inherently uncounterable will mean you're going to have a bad time.

Dryad Arbor will be replaced by what?

Dryad Arbor could be replaced by a / tango land, should one ever be printed. If it isn't, I'd look for other necessary utilities before slotting in a basic.

This deck doesn't run Skullclamp, so one of the main selling points of a creature/land hybrid is irrelevant here. I notice often in testing that Dryad Arbor is an issue for tempo or is otherwise inconvenient, despite looking good on paper. It's sort of the same problem that Homeward Path had, but with color and not tempo.

Clearly the solution is to make room in the deck for Skullclamp.

Have you considered Gaea's Cradle? Do you consistently get enough creatures to warrant it? Also, with Green Sun's Zenith, what value of x are you generally happy to go up to?

I am playing Diabolic Intent and Pongify in the place of Imperial Seal (do not own) and Voidslime. Would you slot Dig Through Time, or substitute another mana producer Frontier Siege in for Dryad Arbor? I am assuming Worldly Tutor is out for being slow and costing a draw.

I own a Grim Tutor but know you consider it too costly. I do not like either Mental Misstep or Muddle the Mixture. Muddle is viable if it gets a combo piece. It works in Sharuum getting the extra turn artifacts. Is it worth it to have a tutor for Demonic Tutor?

@enpc: This deck doesn't want to play Skullclamp, though. Dryad Arbor + Crucible of Worlds would be the only way to "abuse" it; otherwise, it's just ", Sacrifice one of a few utility cards: draw two cards," and it's not consistent enough in that capacity to ensure reliability.

Gaea's Cradle has probably become more viable, though. I play more cheap utility creatures than I used to, and it could very well be worthy. I would need to test it. The only sticking point there really is that it's not useful until I get at least one utility creature out, and it can't be used to cast that first creature. But I think I could justify that if I could produce 2-4 mana on average in the mid and late game.

Green Sun's Zenith is good for X=1 or 2. X=3 is doable in some situations. I usually like to find Deathrite Shaman, Birds of Paradise, or Lotus Cobra (Dryad Arbor aside for now). Azusa, Lost but Seeking is a situational pick, and Eternal Witness is good in the mid to late game.

@Frank_Glascock: Muddle the Mixture also finds Phantasmal Image, which is a combo piece, or Snapcaster Mage or Cyclonic Rift. Not the most flexible tutor, to be sure, but not useless. And finding Demonic Tutor is not always unforgivable; I've sometimes used Vampiric Tutor or Mystical Tutor to find Diabolic Tutor.

As for Dryad Arbor, your options are pretty open. I bumped the land count up to 37 a while ago, so you could theoretically go back down to 36 and just be where the deck started in that respect. 36 is functional. Because the shell is so stable, you're free to leave the slot as a flex based on your meta or your anticipated opposition. I can't speak to Dig Through Time's effectiveness in the deck because I haven't tested it, but, if it's good, it could be the best general purpose spell for that slot.

The Skullclamp thing was a joke :P

As for replacing Dryad Arbor with a nonland card - I would recommend against it. 36 lands is the absolute minimum that should be run for a 3 colour deck (from my personal experience at least) and with the amount of ramp that requires you having multiple lands in hand, it would just be shooting yourself in the foot. You could consider Mana Confluence as a replacement. For a creature light deck, you might find yourself runnining into the catch 22 situation that you can get from Gaea's Cradle, though I still think it's good enough to warrant testing (if you feel like dropping $160+ just for testing).