Jordares If your looking for a deck for Fevered Visions may I suggest this deck Izzet Machine Gun. It isn't my build but I find it to be very fast and a perfect build for Fevered Visions.

Jordares Disregard the previous comment with the link to Izzet Machine Gun. It goes to the wrong deck I was thinking of. It is the same name, but the link takes you to a legacy version.

DarkAngel367 Congrats on yet another solid finish! Emrakul/Ramp decks are usually not an easy matchup. I used to have 2 copies of Summary against them because that's easily the best card to have and completely destroys them. I recently cut one copie to try some other sideboard tools against other decks but if they make an important comeback, more Dismissal it will be.

Jordares VS Brisela control, you CAN'T have them summon Brisela because after that your only hope is Noxious Gearhulk so you want to do everything you can prior with Transgress the Mind or Summary Dismissal the Bruna Trigger. It can be a tricky matchup but I believe we are supposed to be in favor. You usually also want to pack in all the PW hate you can bring.

Jordares Fevered Visions is a very tricky tool to work with. I personnaly myself never been a Howling Mine type player but I could perhaps see an argument for it. The main thing is though that this deck's goal is trying to exhaust the opponent's ressources and then land and ride a soft-lock to victory...if we keep filling their hands helping them find answers, I dont see how that would help our game plan!...maybe a different version of Grixis with more burn could try that but that's not the type of control I'm aiming for.

I see, excellent answer, thanks mate

Your mana base probably needs some work. You should be looking at 16 R/15 U/19-20 B. Assuming you are counting evolving wilds as 2 sources of each colour and aether hub the same, then you are currently at 14 R/13 U/17B, so you probably need to cut some basics, and run more aether hubs and that kind of thing.

Source: Frank Karsten

Hey, I was wondering if there was a budget option to replace the lili's. I'm building a lot of decks right now so I can't really buy any

I also need to replace one kalitas. I'm thinking I could just add a gonti or another torrential. Maybe even a noxious to the mainboard.

@UnspokenSaints The mana base actually works perfectly fine, at least it does for me. I think out of about 40-50 games so far I've lost one to the mana base.

@warthog177 I actually replaced one of the Kalitas for a Gonti and it works just fine, I found kalitas dead in a bunch of games but he's always good as a one of at least. To replace the lili's I'd say more removal, maybe even a second gonti.

How many did you lose to mulligans because of not having the right colours?

I trust Frank Karsten's analysis pretty closely, there's a lot of maths behind it, and if you use it you can keep more hands which is a nice little edge. Also, the thing about running Aether hubs is it doesn't slow down your mana base at all. Cutting 2 mountains for 2 aether hubs would get you very close to there, and you'd still be able to find all your colours off of evolving wilds. Like, you have a lot of energy sources and only a couple of sinks. And you're still running 11 basics, which is more than enough for battle lands (13 arguably because evolving wilds).

Also if I was being really picky personally I'd cut Saheeli Rai for the more consistent power of the fourth Gearhulk, but I'm pretty sure that's personal preference tbh. The deck does look sweet, though as control players we all worry about how aggro the format is rn. Also, I don't see what dispel or negate is useful for in the sb? Other than the mirror, when do you care about non-creature spells? I'd rather have 2 extra summary dismissal- still deals with those, and nicely you still have a scry 2 draw 2 if your opponent doesn't do anything in their turn, and importantly it deals with top deck Emrakul, which I imagine isn't great for you.

@unspokensaints The counterspells are for all the planeswalkers in the format. They are all strong and you really don't want to let them do anything. They are so important in most decks. Like, I'm over here running 5c walkers in standard.

Hi UnspokenSaints, thx for bringing a few more topics for discussion.

Manabase: Although I think like DarkAngel367 that the mana is pretty smooth and that I can't really remember the last game I lost because of mana, I am willing to revisit a little bit, if just because I also value Frank's input so much. The problem with running more ''Ather Hubs and that kind of thing'' as you put it is because there is only Aether Hub that would fit the multicolor untapped clause (unless we can get away with more tangolands, but I'm not sure). The problem with 4 Aether Hub you see is that dropping 2 in early-game is already stretching it - unluckily drawing a 3rd for your 5th or 6th land would be pretty clunky. Now I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, more testing is in order, but what I am saying is why fix something that ain't broke - I know I know the math the math, but even Frank's math doesn't take into account things like the Energy that Hub requires, or my personal favorite: the moment in the game when you want to be casting a certain color i.e. in our deck you never need blue before at least the 4th turn for Glimmer, and then possibly the 6th for an on-curve Gearhulk, but other than that we always develop our mana-base with the flow, based on what we have in hand and what we draw. To answer your question: How many did you lose to mulligans because of not having the right colours? I'm not sure but I wouldn't have to ask myself this question: ''How many times couldn't you cast your spells because your Hubs were depleted and you were just staring at your hand with not enough colored mana to cast them''. In conclusion: I invite you to test with more Hubs and let us know, because although the theory might support you, the practice has its reserves.

Saheeli Rai: I started off with 4 Blue Hulks but that was too much so I very recently cut the 4th for Saheeli. Im not sure if she'll stick but she has definitely over-performed so far. Worst case scenario she usally gets 3 scrys and soaks up 4-5 points of damages, which is kind of mediocre but really not so bad for 3 mana. So yeah the floor is pretty low, but everyone recognizes the high ceiling since all the creatures I run have awesome ETB effects (save Kali). Copy one dude, and you got a lot more than your investment! Its not so hard to get it out of her, she often becomes a 3-mana clone and lives to tell the tale which is pretty decent.

Dispel/Negate: First off correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you Fused Summary Dismissal and Glimmer of Genius in your comment: ''summary dismissal- still deals with those, and nicely you still have a scry 2 draw 2''!...I'll wait for your clarification but what I can say is this: Negate is awesome VS a bunch of cards hard to deal with for us; while PWs is a good place to start, Grixis traditionally SUCKS at killing enchantments...and although they aren't very powerful atm, stopping a Fevered Visions or a Quarantine Field is often game-saving for us - Negate also gets current bonus points for stopping Vehicles, which is a thing. As of Dispel well for one thing, against any heavy-removal deck, it lets us drop and protect our threats for just one extra mana. I definitely board it in more times than I thought I would, it saved my ass more times than I ever expected!! Just a great any-format blue card to have.

warthog177 Cards like Lili and Kalitas are very awkward to replace because their mix of abilities is so unique. Sometime Lili shines because she kills dudes or stalls like a champ, but sometimes it's because she returns me a creature I need in a Grindy matchup. Sometimes Kali shines because of the lifegain, sometime it's the token making, and sometimes I'm really just after exiling those F***ing Scrapheap Scroungers!!

With that said I think the most important thing to replace those would be to to keep it low CMC because of their very affordable manacosts. Sure, you can run a Noxious Gearhulk but make sure the two other cards are mana-light(ish). If I had to make replacements, personally I would probably mainboard the 4th Flames. And then sure maybe a Gonti could be cool, I have yet to test with him but he sure looks great - the best part about him is that even if he gets spawn-killed, you still get virtual-card-advantage out of him and that is very powerful.

Ah yeah, I did, the point I was trying to make is when leaving up summary dismissal you can always do glimmer of genius whereas if your opponent sees a negate coming early and plays a different spell instead, I don't see anything else you'd cast. So in order to really punish your opponent you have to leave 4 mana open anyway.

regards testing, I'm playing Mardu atm (for 8 fastlands and 8 good manlands, Nahiri, and the black gearhulk) with no energy and planning to test that. I might end up somewhere similar later in the format, who knows. I am surprised aether hub isn't a tri- land for you given you're playing live fast and glimmer of genius. That's a lot of energy generation. If you're not getting enough energy to run 4 aether hubs you should definitely play Painful Truths over live fast.

Wth are removal heavy decks keeping in that gets dispelled?! You have 8 creatures, that sounds like an awful strategy for your opponent that will likely lead to a planeswalker-ultimate induced death. If they really have to keep in a load of instant speed removal, you're very likely winning that game.

I see your point about enchantments though. In that case, I'd cut dispel for negate. I generally play jund mardu or esper control, so I never struggle with enchantment destruction. There are definitely some rogue decks that do go for that, and fevered visions seems to pop up surprisingly often. I just don't see what instants really ever threaten you, and if you're facing a removal heavy deck and really need to stick a kalitas then they're v likely slow enough you can wait another turn.

Also yeah, I was trying to fit your untapped clause, that's why I said 2 aether hub for 2 mountains. In a technical sense that doesn't solve all of your problems, but it does improve things, again providing you can keep them supplied, as you say. If you're really concerned about drawing 2 early, general Magic consensus is play 3, so you could go there. I'm sure your mana base is around 80% on casting your spells on time, anyway, I just always like Frank Karsten's 90% threshold. After all, we all hate losing to colour mulligans/land screw.

So I got this deck together just in time for my local fnm. I feel so dirty. Torrential gearhulk is just so scumbaggy like oh my god.

Lol great warthog177 let us know it goes!

Good deck. Been playtest against those vehicles. Well played. Im also looking for control deck to be used for my upcoming gp and grixis control looks cool. Might change my BW control into this. And little bit of changes maybe. +1

Hey thx NinjaGunung, I would be interested to know with which variations you opted.

been testing against RW Dwarves Vehicles... wish to playtested more, but quite busy this week. Still decent decks. Planning to build our deck and maybe mix a bit, tune a bit with Shota Yasooka Grixis control as references also.

Cool, when I heard that Shota was running Grixis, I was so hyped to see if his deck looked like mine - according to the MTGOgoldfish estimation, it couldn't be more different lol!!...he's all about blue and leaving mana up, classic control style. Cool still! I wish him a good run today!

Yeah. But the most hyped for me is that he's using thing in the ice. Cool dude. Yeah. His deck got lot of control. Seen his match against temur aetherworks. Still, undefeated.

Well, maybe for my version: 4 anticipate4 harnessed lightning3 grasp/3 bombardmennt3 negate3 radiant flames2 glimmer2 unlicensed/2 murder2 essence of extraction2 summary dismissal 3 rejection 3 thing in ice 2 torrential gearhulk2 kalitasFor the PW... Maybe Lili on sb. Not sure yet. But 2 old Chandra, yes please. Lot of people forgotten on how good the old Chandra used to be.

If I can get my hands on these I'm going to test thing in the ice, dynavolt tower, and more gearhulks for a stronger mid game.

I think tower more suitable for deck like UR burn, something like that...