lords2001 As it stands, we deal with indestructible creatures mainly with To The Slaughter or Grasp the Gods that have 4 toughness, we can also obviously Counter them or strip them out of their hand with Transgress. One of the last addition to the deck was the copy of Final Reward, explicitly to deal with those. However what I have come to realized in the last few weeks is that 1) Gods are not enough of a problem to justify a slot to them 2) If opponent is resolving Ulamogs, there's a 95% chance that we will lose the game anyway. SO, as of yesterday I swapped Final Reward with Dispossess; instead of having a shot in the dark to exile one Ulamog, now we have a shot in the dark to take out all Marvels prior to them resolving Ulamogs...Not ideal, but Marvel + Ula is just that broken really. White is for sure better equipped than us VS indestructuble stuff but we just don't fucks with white, remember? haha... BOLAS!

Magma was put in explicitly VS zombies and is doing a great job. However it is pretty dead after they start resolving lords or the Lili anthem, so I'm happy with 2 copies. A few weeks ago I was having a harder time VS Zombies then Marvel but now it's the opposite because I know how to take the Zombie deck better (one of the keys is to keep counters vs that Lili anthem, you can't treat that matchup like you treat any other aggro matchup), whereas Marvel got way more wide with creatures and more deep with counter magic and versatile threats (Chandra, Sphinx...)

viperfang4 I do think that the discussion is in order so thx for mentioning this, I did ponder over them but even though the cycling is appealing, what we really want from our lands is to come in untapped and as it stands we just have 4 lands that are a definite come-in tapped. Considering the greedyness of our deck requirements, having more tap-lands would make the mana-base more clunky than it already is. We have a very delicate balance to keep. Another thing is that in this meta with our current configuration I still want to be dropping lands turn 9-10!! Dropping Chandra/Hulk and keeping 3-4 up is very important. One more thing: generic cycling will never come close to edge Anticipate! Anticipate is really MVP in getting us out of shit when we need a particular card to get out of it! For us 3-color decks it's really hard to justify these cycle lands I think, a more dedicated control full of counters with 27 lands could use them though, probably like an Esper build.

Slight SB change: -1 Kefnet, -1 Final Reward, +1 Summary Dismissal, +1 Dispossess

Description updated. TLDR; this is helping a little bit VS Marvel and Ulamog.

It is kind of funny you name esper, as I run esper control. I also run 4 color turbofog. Both cases, the cycle lands created no need for anticipate. The tap downside never really felt bad with them because of their versatility and waiting on the opponent for the first few turns. I also was running a higher land count than I was, but was never mad at flood and could still hit those 9th and 10th land drops if needed. Those lands also have 2 land types for the show lands and you are inclined to run a higher density of each, where running a higher density of the have lands is risky. This overall even makes it feel like you have mroe untap lands as you just hold up cycle lands and play show lands potentially, or whatever you can get away with tapped on curve. Esper can fudge things a bit more than grixis can, since it has things like Blessed Alliance that can gain life and remove threats, and you aren't gaining life. Grixis' effective life is 20, Esper's is 25-30. Your description for Anticipate says: "This little jewel is still fantastic to make sure we make those important land drops, for color fixing, filtering, digging, etc... It seems like there's always a way to cast this at time that our mana was just going to be wasted by being open anyway. Great deck smootherer, often allows us to keep hands that we would have otherwise mulliganed and/or helps us stay (or get into) games that we would have lost to tempo. Love it - please never leave Standard." The first 4 things the cycle lands do, important land drops, color fixing, filtering, and digging. Open mana can cycle these as you purposely build a few more in, maybe 1-2 more lands, which actually lets you add in a few more answers cause you cut slots. The are a great deck smoother, and having mostly land hands with this allow us to keep hands we otherwise couldn't. If we need the mana they are mana, if not, another card. They basically match the description you have for anticipate and I think they're better. Running 4 Aether Hub is also nice, glimmer alone can keep it going. The cycle lands could let you run 4 Glimmer of Genius and/or 1-2 Pull from Tomorrow for the lategame hand refill (it is usually just over after that).

viperfang4 You do make a good case for them but I'm still not sure haha! Boys Noctem, MadLuckKingg, Illuminate21 - what yall think about the cycle lands for our shell?

In a controlled amount they can be good. It's important imo to make sure that we don't overcommit to tap lands in a format where turns 2-4 are extremely important. Marvel is on 4, if you fend off the initial wave from Mardu and other aggro decks they usually run out of steam..

I'm also not convinced that cycle lands are required for this deck. Testing required there. Does the cycle ability represent that much of a benefit when you think that they also come into play tapped no matter what. Do we not have enough card draw in the deck already? The top 8 of the pro tour had a total of 2 cycle lands, divided between 2 Marvel decks. I think this format is too aggressive for decks like this to really invest into always enters tapped lands. If you were using Kefnet and wanted to bounce lands later in the game for card advantage that could be acceptable though gimmicky.

I mean, fast decks do not want the cycle lands, control decks do. The top 8 had no control decks. I think they're the best lands for control in standard and the fast lands are the best for aggro. All you really need is a negate to hold off marvel turn 4, if you uave 3 land drops, you're ok. I guess a bit of a downside is that you are grixis and the cycle lands will be centered in black while that is the color you have the least of. They will make show lands easier to run. You may not need evolving wilds anymore though. The cycle part cannot be countered either. I am curious how you deal with blue heavy control decks, Sphinx of the Final Word breaks other control decks post sideboard.

Sphinx is usually either stripped out of their hands or sacrificed to To The Slaughter. A few times I also managed to -2 Chandra in tandem with a Sweltering Suns. I must have seen Sphinx in about 20 games but lost to him no more than twice.

I meant maybe for your side against blue heavy control. Izzet control has no cards that can deal with it. Other control decks will have issues as well since about 10 cards can deal with him, most of which are not viable.

You're right, I haven't faced much Izzet Control though, but I'll add him back to the Maybeboard list, he is definitely legit.

Do you run this mainly at fnm at your lgs, cocktrice, mtgo, gp's, or what? And if you play and test on cockatrice i will gladly help test anytime.

You need to weigh the difference between how good the Bicycle lands are in the best situation, and how bad they are in the worst. It also depends on the deck. If you want mana open early to disrupt the opponent then they are not so good, although they power up the Shadow Lands, if you don't disrupt, its just a duel land that enters tapped.

When it comes to Kefnet, I prefer to return Aether Hub to replay and get more energy, usually just to mana pix tho. I'll also point out that this fuels delirium along with Evolving Wilds, making To the Slaughter and Pick the Brain a bit better.

Overall, if you are going to run the Bicycle lands, you should probably run only a few, maybe 2-4. And try use them to their full potential with the Shadows Lands.

In the current meta I think they are bad for this deck. Running the cycle lands does increase the effectiveness of the shadow lands, but running more nonbasic lands reduces the effectiveness of the battle lands which IMO, are the superior land cycle in standard ATM. We also want to be fast in this meta, we need to be able to stop aggro early, and have counter magic and/or an extraction spell to get rid of Aetherworks Marvel. Both of these happen between turns 2-4 making them extremely important, like Noctem said.

Just thought I'd ask, how good are the Thing in the Ice  ^Flip's doing? I haven't done much sideboard testing. Another thing, I think sideboarding Sphinx of the Final Word is more of a personal meta call, really depends on your local game store. (Unless you play online, then put it in sideboard if you are running into a lot of other control decks, you can also put kefnet back in instead)

viperfang4 I usually spend about 2-3 weeks on Cockatrice when the set just spoils but I then update the deck on MTGO and play there.

Cycle lands discussion: It seems like we all agree that they are not ''bad'' per day but early-game is so critical in this meta that they are not ideal for us atm. I do keep them in mind though, who knows what the environment will be like after rotation, I'm willing to bet that midrange will be due for a comeback.

MadLuckKingg TITI has been doing AMAZING work! It's one of our strongest sideboard slots and I'm shocked at how I didn't run it for the longest time. Thanks again to the ones of you who sold me on it during last format! I tried Kefnet but didn't like it. If I do decide to reinsert a mirror breaker, it will most likely be Sphinx - and I'm pretty sure I'll pull the trigger soon cause I HAVE been facing more UR control in the last few days.

......and I pulled the trigger lolll

SB: -1 Transgress the Mind +1 BIG BAD SPHINX

Justification: Having some very potent dedicated hate-slots towards the current top decks, I found myself running all 3 Transgress not as much as I used too. Against control Sphinx is definitely better than the 3rd Transgress.

Well, let's not say to take out anticipate for the cycle lands, let's look at the have lands. For your early game reasoning, these do nothing and will not activate until turn 3 at earliest, which is usually unlikely and will likely be on turn 4 or 5. Cycle lands hold up better later, and turn 1 especially u can drop on tapped with no downside, turn 2 usually not mattering as well, but you have other lands for turn 2. If you ever want to play on cockatrice, just message me on here.

viper, the next time I will be on Cocka will be as soon as HOU gets fully spoiled, I'll add you then for sure.

Your thoughts on Flaying Tendrils vs. Sweltering Suns? I feel like with the prominance of zombies it is at least good in the Sb, maybe 1 Flaying Tendrils over 1 Sweltering Suns would be fine, your mana seems good enough and that card can completely mess up a broken zombies hand, counter/kill a lord then kill/exile their creatures with Flaying Tendrils and then no more Dread Wanderer or Diregraf Colossus shenanigans, just a thought.

Hi MTGsoccer13, thx for your input! Definitely it could be a good idea to replace the 4th Suns with Tendrils but it couldn't take out Lords by itself, it could however take out Wanderers, Rest Dead and Breaker, but then again only in early game when they are low toughness. The big problem about zombies this time around is that they consistently don't stay small for many turns! Most zombie players achieve their first Lili anthem by turn 5 (which is so important to counter btw). I definitely see the case for it man, but all in all, I think I personally give the advantage to Suns which hits for one more + the ability to cycle it in late game is fantastic. Nevertheless, I'll put it up the Maybeboard so that I can still ponder over it some more while fighting through more hordes of zombies!!

Can I ask why you aren't playing fatal push? It seems like it would be really good and it kills cards from every deck in the format

Sure, I tried it but not reliably being able to turn on Revolt for more than 10% of the time, It just became a less good Magma Spray...There is no threats at 2CMC or less that Spray doesn't take out better (the exception is Heart but I don't see much of those currently).

EPIPHANY!!! I'm maindecking both copies of TITI! (MadLuckKingg this should furthermore answer your last question!) It took a game-win where I was still on 3 lands on turn 7 to realize that there is absolutely no matchups where I don't want TITI! GREAT for stalling and bouncing zombies and very solid to put some pressure on the Marvel deck. I will take out one copy of Transgress and one copy of Slaugther since there are a good handfull of matchups where they are pretty lackluster to say the least.

Jesus Christ, the deck's been killing tonight! YALL GOTTA mainboard TITI, I've won like half of my games because of it, so great in this meta and in our shell! Opponents play so badly when facing it and then outta blue BOOM Hulk > transform > wipe board > return Hulk to hand > cast something (often Glimmer) > dig 2 / draw 2. Then our turn comes, BOOM Chandra, take 13!...

We're back to like two years ago in the first iteration of this deck when we used to drop Silumgar, the Drifting Death > pass the turn > and then drop dash hasty Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury, -2/-2 the board > take 11!! haha good stuff :D

How do you try to play TITI? Do ya maybe play on turn 2 and hope they don't play something u would normally counter, like Heart of Kiran? Or play turn 4/5 leaving up counter/removal?

Went 4-0 today at FNM -- Link to Decklist Here.

2-0 vs Temur Marvel2-1 vs White/Black tokens2-0 vs Black/Green Counters2-1 vs Black/Red Fling deck (This deck was fvcking nuts, he played Consulate Dreadnought's and Lupine Prototype's hit me with them, and whenever I tried to remove one he flung it at me, I was on edge the whole match)

I'll be going to Saturday and Sunday game day's at my LGS, hopefully I keep the win streak going. :P