@Eastsiderock the transform card won't turn on revolt for fatal push, they just flip over when their reqs are met.

Hi everyone! I've been looking at the new cards and was wondering what you thought about building the deck as more of a tempo/control deck than pure control? Using a lot of cheap cards rather than top-end bombs and the like. For example, you might play:

4x Fatal Push

4x Magma Spray

4x Abrade

2x Spell Pierce

3x Duress

2x Harsh Scrutiny

4x Abrade

4x Glimmer

4x Gearhulk

1x Bolas

2x Opt

Or something along those lines? It would put a lot of strain on the mana base because of all the early drops, but I feel like it might keep up with aggro decks better. You would need to tweak the numbers though because I am not a good deck builder and you would need ways to deal with Hazoret and the dino...What do you guys think?

With a list like that you'll lose to any non aggro deck.

If you want to go tempo you aren't going to want to run stuff like Bolas, maybe even not gearhulk.Your also gunna need some early creatures to beat down with, otherwise you're not really playing tempo .

Any of yall been running Yahenni's Expertise lately?? I'm thinking that if the fucking Tyrant sees too much play we won't have a choice but to consider going Expertise into Suns....because disruption + the 7-mana wrath are not going to be reliable enough on their own...a few sac effect will probably go a long way too.

Set not fully spoiled yet though...let's see...

We grind control players can only hope that the control hate of this set stops.

lol...and now yard-hate is like more available than vanilla 2/2s....

Certainly a strange time for standard players. This is my first real rotation, and losing half the cards and getting half again of those back is strange

Would you pay 5-mana for a counterspell? Typically no....but for this one, I'm pretty sure I will!!

I still wouldn't unless you're trying to go for the win condition that requires the treasures, I forget the name of the card. Between all the counterspells you have access to, even post rotation, this is just awful.

I'll be running four of that sucker. And Contraband Kingpin

Awful? Dude, this is Mana Drain for Standard...I think you grossly underestimate the power of countering a 5-6 mana threat and then having twice the mana available to answer other threats!! This will definitely see Standard play in control decks! All the treasures then even work to turn on other powerful cards such as Summonings and Fatal Push.

Might not be a 4-of, but a definite 1-2 of! ;)

dthoreson813 Shit! Forgot about my friend Kingpin!

How could you?!? :-)

Ummm... Btw. Torrential Gearhulk

*Can't wait to Swindle and then use that mana to immediately Gearhulk into another spell or use it to immediately restock with Glimmer, kill something else etc...Welcome to Valueville: population: Swindle players :D

EastsideRock This list is remarkable! But yeah, losing GDD is gonna hurt. What were you going to swap for your rotatoes?

I think you're overestimating the average CMC of the new meta and how casting a 5CMC counterspell is not going to be productive when you're countering a 2-3 CMC spell only to have them play another spell right after anyway. Not to mention that there's multiple low CMC counterspells running around as well. I don't know, I just think it's not going to be what you want to have in your hand.

Hmm...With all the enrage and ramp I foresee running more Unlicensed Disintegration over Harnessed Lightning. It's going to be interesting balancing our decks for both the super aggro red decks and the big ramp decks. Red is definitely going to be dangerous with Lightning Strike too!

Although I can agree that Spell Swindle can sometimes be a dead card when it comes to countering stuff, but I personally think if you counter something with cmc 4 or more, u have probs gotten the most value from it.

Something janky I have seen is ppl using treasure tokens with Marionette Master. While this can seem an unlikely win, I wanna see how legitimately it can actually win games, possible turn 6 win in control :o

-8Acolyte_Of_Bolas8- Not sure what'll ''replace'' GDD, but I foresee us running less creatures in the next meta, probably just bank on Hulk and Scarab in a 3-3 or 4-2 split. Sure gonna miss him! :(

Noctem Definitely a dead card VS supper aggro decks, but definitely an insane play VS the ramp decks. I foresee starting testing with 1 main and 1 in the side. Might end up with 1-2 in the side only though. Can't wait to try it out, mana drain being one of my ultimate fav cards of all time :D!

Facebeater We will definitely have to split our removal spells like we always do! I really really hope we get to run Fatal Push this time around...let us see how many treasures we can crack per game...

-8Acolyte_Of_Bolas8- I guess Gonti would be the best possible replacement for GDD, but although he pissed me off many of times when facing him, I never tried him because I would just hate to spend 4-mana and have him brick...+ with access to GDD and Kali, he was just no match.

EastsideRock Gonti wouldn't be bad, but you'd just have to be lucky on what your opponent top decks. lol I'd rather put him on the sideboard since he could really shine in the control mirror. Definitely something to play around with, though.

Has anyone considered trying to run wildfire eternal? Decent toughness at 4 so it can survive Yahenni's Expertise and Sweltering Suns. If they block they take 4 damage from afflict. If they don't you can play any instant and sorcery from your hand for free. Seems a pretty huge value to me

Something to try for sure! I've got a couple Gonti to play around with also....