Yeah, I would rework to say the following:

1. Overpowered Tier. These commanders can dominate games unless teamed up on and are immediately perceived as a threat by all who see them. Commanders in this catagory are capable of either outright winning or creating nearly unwinnable matches consistently by turn 4 if left unchecked. They're strong, fast, and incredibly resilient to hate.

2. Strong Tier. Only slightly weaker than the decks in Tier 1, these commanders are still quite capable of holding their own in any match, though they usually have more problems with speed and / or consistency than the tier 1 commanders. They can usually close out matches or set up unbeatable board states by turn 5 in a vacuum.

3. Average Tier. These commanders still do quite well in casual kitchen table matches, but they suffer from noticeable problems in higher levels of play. These decks rarely manage to win before turn 6, or can often be shut down by a single well-placed counterspell. They can still compete against tier 1 and 2 decks, but they require very favorable politics to win.

4. Weak Tier. Commanders in this category, while still playable, suffer from one or more severe issues. They often they will be run in casual good-stuff decks, where the Commander has little or nothing to do with the deck, and only serves as a backup body if deck runs out of steam. These are the decks that often take 10 or more turns to win. When brought to competitive tables, they have to essentially be left completely alone in the corner to have any hope of winning.

5. Unplayable Tier. Incredibly weak commanders that essentially serve as a placeholder for the command zone. Often these commanders are only used for their color identity. They bring nothing to the table on their own.

@NarejED

I like this way of referencing the politics. I think it could be an interesting way of dividing generals into tiers of a sort.

I think the only things this might miss are:
the dependency on and resilience of board states (possibly implicit in the interaction with politics)
consistency (possibly implicit in the number of turns to win)

Also, some generals literally make a play on political dynamics like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Marchesa, the Black Rose.

I think what you have is still interesting and the interaction with table politics might be the best defining feature of commander's in multiplayer. This is good enough to be interesting and meaningful without needing to be perfect.

NarejED I really like your descriptions, I think I will use them for my list if you don't mind!

Go for it! Feel free to edit it, too. I wrote that in a bit of a rush and didn't proof read it nearly as well as I should have.

Here is a link to my list! I have been able to copy it with the custom categories, so less boring work to do! Woot woot! Move your discussion and ideas of change over there for me to apply them!

[List] EDH Generals by Tier

Commander / EDH* thegigibeast

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Do look at the ban list and make an S tier. The thing is things like Zur the Enchanter and Erayo, Soratami Ascendant and Oloro, Ageless Ascetic are banned in competitive play. They belong in a separate tier so people know what to use in competitive. Also your tier one is terrible. Niv Mizzet and Melek are not that powerful. They are probably more like tier 3. Your tiers should also consider cost to play. Sure it is EDH but mana cost is very relavent. The higher costs like Jin Gitaxius will never be played because he simply costs too much and is a target like you say so will be stuck in the command zone costing 20 to cast again. Aka you will never get to use him making a deck around a high cost rather pointless. The point is the commander is a theme setter for the rest of your deck, not just a giant beat stick with a secondary effect that you will never be able to cast because everyone will make sure you never have the fun of casting it.

You should be posting it on the new post thread not on this one..

eyes2sky. lookit

Gattison check out gigi's post a couple up. New one that is active was posted.

Griselbrand is banned, why is he on the list at all?

Psst, queuecifer, check out the new list. It covers that, and fixes many of the other placement problems. New EDH Tier List

I'd like to make an argument for Mishra. Sure, he's a build around me, but so are Scion and Jhoira. Mishra can be a force to be reckoned with when built right. Nether Void, Possibility Storm, and Praetor's Grasp can shut opponents down while Mishra uses his ability to make every artifact a 2 for 1, stealing people's artifacts while grabbing your own, and making Nether Void (and the like) one sided. Mishra can then use his convenient colors to put out Arcum Dagsson and assemble game-winning combos without being interrupted. Mishra also excels at being an exceptional stax general, locking down opponents by turn 3, and killing someone by turn 4-5 with his 1 on 1 storm variant.

Am I the only one that thinks Selvala, Explorer Returned should be in teir 3. She has a cool mechanic that provides mana, life, and card draw. I won my first official edh contest with a Sevala deck. She's also fun for the table, because even though your gaining life and ramping, everyone is drawing cards. Pair her with a card that let's you untap and she provides alot of nice effects. I will say she is very lack luster in 1v1, but even then she is reliable card advantage.

Psst, CollinJ21. This is the outdated, archived list. There's a new version that's being kept up to date. If you want to recommend changes, better to do it there. [List] EDH Generals by Tier

Shouldn't Gisela be in Tier one? That card is ridiculous to play against. All outgoing damage is doubled and all receiving damage is prevented by half rounded up. It can end a game in three attacks because of commander damage.

@commander_beef:

1. She's an 7-drop, meaning that she rarely hits field before turn 3, with turn 5 being the average post mulligan rule.

2. For her cost, her abilities aren't all that great. Commanders that cost that much should be winning the game the turn they hit the field (see Maelstrom Wanderer, Narset, Enlightened Master, etc). Instead, she's immensely slow, taking an average of 3 turns after casting to win, meaning she rarely goldfished wins before turn 8. In actual multiplayer matches, she rarely wins at all.

3. She's in an awful color combination. Boros is actually the 3rd worst color archetype in EDH (4th if you cound ). It has very little access to several key components that make resilient decks.

She's rightfully placed in Tier 3 in the updated list: [List] EDH Generals by Tier

@@commander_beef

Gisela's a great card, but not a great commander. She costs 7 to drop in (Which is a lot), dies to just about any form of removal unless you tutored up something like Lightning Greaves beforehand, and frankly, her ability is quite basic and can easily be replicated to a certain extent with things like Wound Reflection, Gratuitous Violence, Curse of Bloodletting etc.

True Tier-1 are commanders that have downright overpowered abilities like what he says in the description. Something like Sharuum the Hegemon have several infinite combos built around them and often win the turn they come out, whereas something like Narset, Enlightened Master usually wins as soon as she attacks. Hell, I have a Narset, Enlightened Master EDH I've played against a few friends once. Got her out on Turn 3 with Haste thanks to Mass Hysteria and some mana rocks, threw on an Aqueous Form, swung at one guy and flipped Time Stretch, Howl of the Horde, Reverberate, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and I had a Twincast in my hand. Wound up killing everyone sitting at the table after the first swing, and now I'm forever banned from playing Narset when I'm with them :(

Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper is definitely not tier four. Its probably tier 2 at minimum tier 3

Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper is max tier 3 I feel. He is ok. A lesser Talrand, but has access to white. He might be borderline 3-4. I think 4 is a fair assessment.

He costs a little much, and makes lands vulnerable when competitive metas are full of removal.

Didgeridooda the reason I say he is not tier 4 is because he has interesting interactions you can build combos with him with Contested War Zone + Mirrorweave + Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper this combo can come seemingly out of nowhere because the combo pieces assemble in your hand not on the battlefield. With access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer, Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll, Expedition Map, Tolaria West this combo is easily tutored out and its devastating when its utilized. Trade Routes itself is a powerful draw card engine and even more so when combined with Crucible of Worlds. Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper + View from Above is also a great card interaction that quickly becomes a problem. In addition to the board wipes that won't hit your board Tragic Arrogance, Planar Outburst, Planar Cleansing, Cyclonic Rift, Devastation Tide, Wash Out the array of counter spells available, removal spells available, spell recursion with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip, Call to Mind, Snapcaster Mage, Relearn, Spelltwine cards like Bribery and become even bigger threats than they normally are. Yes you can play these cards with other blue and white decks but a lot of others I've seen like Brago, King Eternal cater to creatures more heavily. Additionally there is a second deck you can build with him based around cantrips and the combo Eye of the Storm + Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper + To Arms! Noyan Dar creates a powerful spell deck that is a very aggressive controller in one-on-one match up and begins as an unassuming deck that becomes a monster in multiplayer. I've come back in multiplayer matches from being completely mana starved the entire game to winning. My point is, Noyan Dar is not tier 4

Also I understand he is vulnerable to removal but how you play him is you dump counters on a single land making a large beater, unless you're about to use the Contested War Zone + Mirrorweave + Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper combo. If all your counters are on one land then that land getting removed is not that big of a deal. I've played a lot of games with him and I've never had an issue with my lands getting screwed up. Crucible of Worlds, Sacred Ground, and Terra Eternal are there to offer some protection on this front. I've found in playing him that these are sufficient in dealing with this issue

I strongly disagree with Selvala at tier 5

Psst, wrong tier list. This one is irrelevant now. The Tier list being actively updated can be found over here. link

Selvala is rightly placed in Tier 2 over there.

I run Dragonlord Ojutai in my playgroup and consistently do well against both an Animar deck and a Karador deck both of which are build rather well. Im not saying it should be tier one but at bare minimum it should be tier 3.

Sigh. No one seems able to listen on this thread. I may simply have to unsubscribe and leave the lost to wander.