Teysaforever says... #2
Bonehoard. It can attack on its own, gives you something to equip, and makes any other creature massive. If you play with two or more people it is wonderful. Staff of Nin, Seer's Sundial, or Mask of Memory may also help. The deck looks like it needs some draw.
November 17, 2014 12:54 p.m.
Kusari-Gama can force decisions; block and lose all their creatures, or take it and lose from commander damage. Even more fun with Godsend attached!
November 17, 2014 5:33 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #4
I don't like Bonehoard in non-graveyard decks and if there's no graveyard deck at the table it's not going to be very effective when I want it to be. My own graveyard tends to be creature-light with recursion and my Rest in Peace completely blanks it.
Staff of Nin was in the deck before. I dropped it to lower my curve. Seer's Sundial is too inefficient. I don't want to spend 4 mana for something that does nothing until I start playing land and paying more mana. Mask of Memory doesn't pump 8.5 and I don't like the forced discard.
For card draw, I have Sword of Fire and Ice, Puresteel Paladin, Trading Post, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Land Tax + Scroll Rack , Sensei's Divining Top, Solemn Simulacrum, Secluded Steppe, Drifting Meadow, and Oblation (if I'm desperate). Do I need any more?
I used to run Kusari-Gama a long time ago. I dropped it because spending 6 mana total for no immediate P/T buff or helpful keywords wan't what I wanted to be using. Also, Kusari-Gama and Godsend have no interactions whatsoever. Not sure what you're talking about.
November 17, 2014 9:06 p.m.
Teysaforever says... #5
Honestly, you probably do not NEED more draw. You can most often find something to do with the mana because of your commander and equipment, I'll bet. On a side note, do not underestimate Bonehoard. Having played with and against it, it most often will be a 6/6 or higher without graveyard shenanigans. A friend of mine, using the precon got her Bonehoard to be a 31/31. Things just die in four player edh.
November 18, 2014 9:43 a.m.
griffstick says... #6
Yep just about every time in edh some one plays a cards with graveyard streangh its huge..
November 18, 2014 12:59 p.m.
I play in the same meta as Nensou here and I can say without a doubt that unless you play a graveyard-focused deck, Bonehoard is not good. There's just too much cheap grave-hate in peoples' decks, and decks with a low creature count.
November 18, 2014 2:51 p.m.
griffstick says... #8
I mean thats what it always comes down to. Who you play with and how there decks work.
November 18, 2014 4:41 p.m.
JamesAzimuthPHD says... #9
I like this Deck a lot! +1 Only one question, why All Is Dust? Is it because it deals with all permanents rather than just Creatures? Would something like Rout be useful? Yeah, the cost is a bit steep for a Wrath, but the option to cast at Instant speed is always nice.
November 20, 2014 9:10 a.m.
NensouHiebara says... #10
Pretty much that. All Is Dust is a board nuke. Creatures? Enchantments? Planeswalkers? Gods? All dead. It spares my Equipment, so I only have to play a creature/replay 8.5 to rebuild. 8.5 can make it hit colourless permanents with his second ability, which is handy for taking out artifacts and troublesome utility lands.
Don't really like Rout in this deck. I don't often have 7 mana open when I end my turn and I don't want to add another sweeper that just removes creatures.
November 20, 2014 9:44 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #11
In multiplayer commander, I've found that some of the best keywords to have on your commander are vigilance and haste. Although Sword of Vengeance's equip cost is a little higher than that of the other swords, I've found it's abilities to be very helpful in multiplayer commander games. I've even found myself tutoring for it before other popular equips. If you haven't tried it out yet, you may be surprised.
November 20, 2014 10:17 a.m.
NensouHiebara says... #12
I've used Sword of Vengeance before. It's good, but it got cut for other Equipment a while back and I haven't found a spot for it again yet.
November 20, 2014 12:07 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #14
Deathrender doesn't work in this deck. A lone +2/+2 boost is inefficient for its costs, the deck barely has anything worth cheating into play, and it doesn't trigger off of 8.5 if he's put back into the Command Zone.
November 20, 2014 1:11 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #15
Rest in Peace kind of works against your Buried Ruin and Remember the Fallen. If what Skyfolk says is true about your playgroup, then it might not be missed if you switched it out for the Sword of Vengeance.
November 20, 2014 1:29 p.m.
JamesAzimuthPHD says... #16
You have a point, the only thing that would really be worth cheating into play is Avacyn, Angel of Hope. While I'm throwing out random suggestions, have you considered Nahiri, the Lithomancer's +1 and it's synergy with Skullclamp?
November 20, 2014 1:33 p.m.
Scorched Ruins. It is an awesome mono-colored land. And with Thespian's Stage? Also if you wanted to go snow, with a Extraplanar Lens perhaps, Scrying Sheets is awesome.
November 20, 2014 4:03 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #18
I've thought about it. I have been against using Skullclamp for the past while due to its poor +1/-1 pump and a general lack of cards that can feed it. If I fell the deck needs another draw engine, I'll look at Skullclamp first.
@ Whoever posted
Scorched Ruins is massive Strip Mine bait. I don't want my mana base to get 3-for-1'd by a land destruction effect.
This deck used snow basics a long time ago. Took them out, along with Extraplanar Lens, sometime after I dropped all of the utility snow lands and went down to 20 basics. I ended up having issues with not having enough basics consistently for Extraplanar Lens to function properly, especially early game. I'm currently only thinking of using Extraplanar Lens again, because of the additions of Burnished Hart from last year, Knight of the White Orchid and the new Myriad Landscape adding to the deck's ramp capabilities. Not sure if I would use Scrying Sheets again. I use a lot of quality nonbasics and making cuts for them is a massive pain to figure out.
November 20, 2014 5:56 p.m.
How do you feel about Norn's Annex you've got some decent life gain with equips so it might as well be a 3 drop. Against other white decks, it is a tossup. Sometimes it is worse than Ghostly Prison/Windborn Muse since it takes less mana to attack, other times it can be great if they're mana screwed on white or running several lands that produce colorless, forcing them to use a more valuable type of mana to pay. Highly discourages token based decks or things like Derevi. Pairs wonderfully with Kor Haven. Make them pay 2 life to attack you then negate the attack entirely.
November 27, 2014 6:40 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #20
Life is too abundant in Commander for Norn's Annex to work properly.
November 27, 2014 9 p.m.
celestite4 says... #21
You might want to try Endless Horizons. It helps a lot with ensuring you have a lot of mana.
November 30, 2014 11:23 a.m.
NensouHiebara says... #22
Endless Horizons was in my deck and was dropped long time ago. More efficient cards exist and having a chunk of my basics getting permanently exiled by enchantment removal isn't fun.
November 30, 2014 9:54 p.m.
Traveler247 says... #23
I was play testing against this deck, and I found it extremely solid, and fun to play. You know the deck better than I do, but I have a few suggestions. First, as awesome as the Kaldra series is, it isn't very good, except for the helm (kinda like how Sword of Body and Mind/Sword of War and Peace aren't good in EDH). I'd recommend cutting Sword of Kaldra and Shield of Kaldra, they are slow and expensive for their effect. Skullclamp, Grafted Wargear, O-Naginata, and Inquisitor's Flail all seem like decent replacements, but I haven't played equipment based decks enough to know for sure.
I would also consider cutting Windborn Muse and Ghostly Prison unless you have a token heavy meta. As fun as Transcendent Master is, your opponents shouldn't be letting it get active, and if they are, then they shouldn't be hard to beat anyway. Overall, it's just too much of a mana sink. Argentum Armor is really expensive. It's extremely powerful, and should stay in this build, but if you choose to make the deck faster, then it would need to go. Kemba, Kha Regent is very solid, and can be amazing in a stalemate situation. She isn't as voltron centered as the rest of your deck, but she's a great backup plan. Aven Mindcensor, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Auriok Steelshaper, and Mind's Eye are also all excellent.
In fact, side note, while Mind's Eye is a bit slow, the draw power is amazing. I highly recommend it in your deck, as you lack draw power. I saw your comment, "For card draw, I have Sword of Fire and Ice, Puresteel Paladin, Trading Post, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Land Tax + Scroll Rack , Sensei's Divining Top, Solemn Simulacrum, Secluded Steppe, Drifting Meadow, and Oblation (if I'm desperate). Do I need any more?" And the answer is yes, you do. Of those, Sword of Fire and Ice, Puresteel Paladin, and Land Tax + Scroll Rack, are the only ones that actually generate noteworthy card advantage, and one of those requires two cards. None of them are as good as Mind's Eye except the two card combo.
Personally, I would replace Sword of Kaldra, Shield of Kaldra, Windborn Muse, Ghostly Prison, and Transcendent Master with Skullclamp, Grafted Wargear, Kemba, Kha Regent, Mind's Eye, and Inquisitor's Flail. I haven't played with these cards, so I doubt those are the best replacements, but I'm fairly certain those changes will strengthen the deck and should at least be tested.
December 2, 2014 1:27 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #24
Kadra Set - I have been thinking of dropping them, but it's kind of hard for me to do so. The original reason I built this deck was so I could use them and it's fun when all three are assembled.
Skullclamp - This will be the first card I will look at if I feel I need another card draw engine. It's cheap, it's tutorable, and I have a handful of cards to fuel it.
Grafted Wargear - I don't like the unattach trigger. It gives any form of artifact removal an easy kill to whatever it's attached to.
O-Naginata - 8.5 and most of my creatures have less than 3 power. Any one of them would need another Equipment that boosts its power to equip it. Not a fan of it.
Inquisitor's Flail - It's in my Maybeboard. I plan on trying it out once I find a good spot for it.
Ghostly Prison & Windborn Muse - These cards do a lot more than just stifle token armies. Just tapping up an opponent's mana helps.
Transcendent Master - This creature is a back-up plan. If heavy Equipment hate comes my way, I at least have this guy to fall back on. Having a large threat in the deck isn't bad to have.
Argentum Armor - This is one of the best Equipment in the deck. Nothing hits as hard as this thing does and there are a handful of cards in my deck that can bypass its heafty costs. I would never drop this card, no matter what.
Kemba, Kha Regent - This deck isn't a token deck. Kemba spilling out an army I can't do anything with isn't what this deck needs.
Aven Mindcensor & Spirit of the Labyrinth - I don't have space in my deck for every hate-card. I'd probably use Mindcensor if tutoring becomes too much of an issue. I don't care for the Spirit.
Auriok Steelshaper - Lackluster. Droppping equip costs by 1 barely does anything. Its anthem effect is also too narrow.
Mind's Eye - I once had Staff of Nin in my deck. Would rather use it again instead of Mind's Eye if I really need the card draw. The extra damage comes in handy.
December 2, 2014 4:03 p.m.
Traveler247 says... #25
I understand about sentimentality, I used to always find room for Phelddagrif in my bant flicker deck because it was the original commander, before Roon of the Hidden Realm was announced, but now I just occasionally use it as the commander when I don't care if a lose. That being said, I haven't lost a game with it as the commander yet. Anyhow, cutting those would strengthen the deck, but if the rest of it is tuned enough it won't make a big impact, and they are still strong.
You said if you feel like you need more draw power, you'd look to Skullclamp first. And, while I obviously can't be certain what would make your deck the most powerful, I would definitely recommend at least testing it. You really don't have much draw power in your deck. My rule of thumb is that if you end up in topdeck mode for 1/3 or more of your games, you need more card draw. I don't know if that matches your experiences, but looking at the deck, I feel like it would.
Grafted Wargear - That makes sense. I forgot about it being destroyed causing your creature to die. It's still a strong card, and would fit very well into a more aggressive voltron strategy.
O-Naginata - I agree, this isn't great. I was just thinking about cheap power boosts that let you pump out early damage.
Ghostly Prison and Windborn Muse - These are alright...I recommend re-evaluating them. Especially Windborn Muse. Try something else in their place for a few games and see how it goes. Ghostly Prison is definitely stronger than Windborn Muse.
Transcendent Master - For a back-up plan, this is too expensive to be so vulnerable. Try Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre to double as an answer to Iona, Shield of Emeria. Or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (to kill your opponents creatures, not buff your own)/Iona, Shield of Emeria/some other ridiculously powerful card. You actually generate a lot of mana, so these are perfectly viable cards.
Argentum Armor - I gotcha. I've only played with it once or twice a long time ago, so I'm not a great judge. I trust your evaluation.
Kemba, Kha Regent - Think of Kemba as a body that you can swing with that generates chump blockers. And if you generate enough chump blockers, then swinging with those too is a perfectly viable backup plan all by itself. The point of Kemba isn't to make a token army, it's to help break a stalemate, or provide free bodies while giving you a creature to swing with. None of your other creatures get a power bonus from being equipped, so Kemba isn't worse to put equipments on compared to them, she just also brings a bunch of friends along.
Aven Mindcensor/Spirit of the Labyrinth - These are obviously both fantastic cards that can be amazing in particular metas. For example, my bant flicker deck is powerful enough that someone in the play group started using Hushwing Gryff just to counter it. Because these are still meta specific, your evaluation is all that matters with them.
Auriok Steelshaper - I agree.
Mind's Eye - The thing about Staff of Nin versus Mind's Eye is that if you are running really low on cards, then you have extra mana for Mind's Eye, and it always draws you two or three extra cards per turn (often more if an opponent draws at all), while Staff of Nin only draws one. The difference is that Staff of Nin is at a constant level of power, while Mind's Eye is more powerful when you need it, and less when you don't, due to the mana cost. In your deck, you can just leave Mind's Eye in your hand or in play until you run low on cards, then it can efficiently dump cards into your hand. Overall, Staff of Nin is great, but I call it a "comfortable card", something you can play and it does good things, but you don't have to think about it. The problem is that it doesn't always get you out of topdeck mode, and give you an array of options to jump back into the game. Now, all of this said, I'm a control player, so having options in my hand is much more important to me than most players. Being in topdeck mode is literally the worst state for me to be in as a magic player. 1 life? That's fine. Nothing but land in play? Sure, whatever. No hand? Well crap. Anyway, sorry for the dissertation on Staff versus Eye, but if you haven't played with it, then I definitely recommend at least testing Mind's Eye, as it's a lot more powerful than Staff of Nin, even if the staff is more appealing.
Anyway, good luck on your deck, it was fun to play! Also, side note, if you run Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Kemba, Kha Regent in place of Transcendent Master and Windborn Muse you have a very powerful backup plan with two cards that do great things for you by themselves. Obviously, that isn't the route you had in mind, but it's still an excellent alternative win-con.
NensouHiebara says... #1
@TheProphet1988
Transcendent Master is a cheap threat that doesn't need Equipment. If I get screwed or heavily hated out, he's something I can rely on.
Salvage Scout is only going in my deck if I decide on using Ranger of Eos. I'm currently siding towards not using him, as I don't want to tie up so many creature slots to make him worthwhile.
I don't want to use Auriok Survivors. It costs 6 mana. My curve is lumpy with 6 mana cards and I don't want to make it worse.
November 14, 2014 10:16 p.m.