@sirtrinium

Deckthinning using Fetchlands is completely irrelevant. In 60-card decks, the "benefits" of deckthinning can't be realized until a few dozen turns into the game. This is even worse in a 99-card deck. I'm not going to waste card space for literally nothing. Fetchlands are for manafixing, not deckthinning.

Worship does absolutely nothing unless I'm almost dead. Not the kind of card I want to be running.

Spirit en-Dal's forcast ability is too awkward to use. The timing restriction hinders its usefulness.

Eiganjo Castle? I always feel like every white edh deck needs this card.

@Sergal

Eiganjo Castle doesn't do enough. Preventing 2 damage on a Legendary creature is very narrow and limited in use.

It does more than just a plains though...

@Sergal

Eiganjo Castle doesn't do enough. I'm not wasting card space on minuscule effects.

But how would adding Eiganjo Castle waste any space? It would give an otherwise basic plains slightly more use.

I agree with the above. Besides, you're a voltron deck, and protecting your commander from some combat and burn damage, or allowing him to block a slightly larger creature and survive for , though it may be a minuscule effect, is quite relevant. It still provides far more utility than just a basic plains.

I don't get why everyone bothers suggesting cards for this deck when clearly the creator does not want any suggestions, has already considered every card in the world and coldly dismisses anyone trying to be helpful.

Anyway, one reason not to use the marginally useful lands you guys are suggesting, like Eiganjo Castle is Emeria, The Sky Ruin. It makes it just a tiny bit less useful, which is reason enough for not running them in my opinion. Emeria, The Sky Ruin is pretty brutal once it is online.

@V0ltage007, o_O

I'd be dropping a Basic for a non-Plains land with an effect I'd barely use and strain my mana base further than it already is.

Why would I even want to use Eiganjo Castle on 8.5? I can just use his own abilities and prevent all damage, not just 2, and can block freely under a protection shield or nullify any amount burn damage.

@regnet

If I didn't want suggestions, I've would of stated it in the deck description.

I've had this deck for over 4 years and it's heavily tuned. Most suggestions aren't going to make the cut, either by lack of usefulness or personal preference.

I love this decklist, and I think it one of the best Voltron Decklists on the site. I personally use Kemba, Kha Regent as my commander, Eight-and-a-Half-Tails works too. +1.

As per card suggestions, I find that Call the Gatewatch (look it up) from Oath of the Gatewatch would be a good addition, as it will fetch useful planeswalkers.Everything else, though, looks good. I love the board wipes used in this deck. Classic!

@theman7612

Call of the Gatewatch is too narrow for my deck. I only have three Planeswalkers and only one of them is worth tutoring.

What did you take out for relic seaker?

@Anorak

I dropped Heliod, God of the Sun for Relic Seeker. Heliod wasn't doing as much as I hoped he would.

So I've being playing a similar 8.5 deck, and there where 3 things that are deeply annoying to work around: Tokens: too many of then and you won't have ways to block or preventing then from killing you... My answer to that? 1:running a shit ton of board wipes Mass Calcify and Phyrexian Rebirth by example made good results 2:running Guardian of the Gateless and Hundred-Handed One also helped the problem I had with flyers.Silent Arbiter was also a very good addition over Windborn Muse.

Hexproof/srhoud effects: This is heavly annoying some times so why not run Arcane Lighthouse? Also about land base, does Nykthos really work here? I mean most of the time you don't flood the board with white permanents so it won't produce the shit ton of mana I would expect it to produce to justify him,and it produces the mana all at once and that can suck a lot since you opponent can just wait the phase to end before dropping more spot removal or something like it.Other good Land to run is Winding Canyons well most of the time you need to let you mana open to do the 8.5 shenanigans so having the opportunity to use the mana you haven't needed is nice.

Counters: well every body hates it , and there is few things in white that can really help one of then and probably the best is already there (abolisher hell I love this guy) but as I said I run a shit load of BWipes so I also run a Boseiju, Who Shelters All because when I use a board wipe I really need it to land.

I also enjoy playing a little more artifacts for ramp like Gilded Lotus,Thran Dynamo and Gauntlet of Power ( I like Extraplanar Lens too but snow lands are expensive... Otherwise I would run it.)

A fun card that I run specifically because is hilarious some times is Masako the Humorless

And why not Darksteel Mutation? Is one of the few things that actually screw with enemy commanders...

Well I hope some of this is useful I love the deck Archetype and Is fun to see different views on it.

@Pedro_Garrit at hotmail dot co

Token armies - I don't have issues with token armies. Using cheap sweepers like Day of Judgment and Ghostly Prison effects keeps them well at bay. Give Divine Reckoning a try. It kills their token army, threatens to purge the next one, and spares 8.5.

Silent Arbiter - I greatly prefer Windborn Muse. She flies, doesn't get hit with artifact removal, and opponents have no chance to attack you if they tap out.

Arcane Lighthouse - I currently don't have significant issues with heproof/shroud creatures. I'm also taxing my mana base enough with the amount of utility lands I use.

Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - I'm trying to make it work. Using it in a deck with a lot of colourless permanents is rough, but the payoff is worth it.

Winding Canyons - I don't have enough creatures to warrant its use.

Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Same issue with Winding Canyons, except I have even less usable cards for it.

Artifact Ramp - I'm keeping mana rocks to an absolute minimum. Equipment attracts the use of significant artifact hate. I don't also need to be mana screwed by the same removal.

Masako the Humorless - I have no use for Masako. Most of my creatures are utility dorks that aren't fit for combat. I wouldn't be blocking with them unless they're emergency chumps.

Darksteel Mutation - I'm not a fan of enchantment-based removal and even less so of the Aura ones. They're clunky and reversible.

In case you didn't know you don't have to control your general for commander damage to count so assault suit could do serious damage in there if you swing at an opponent for let's say 11 damages and you give control of your general to an opponent who then hits the same opponent for another 11 damages he dies from commander damage.

Assault Suit

@Jay3401

No interest in Assault Suit. I use 8.5's abilities to protect my permanents. I'd leave myself vulnerable to targeted effects if I let opponents borrow 8.5.

Windborn Muse prevents attacks "if" they are tapped out and she is a 2/3, so she dies to stuff like bolt... Silent Arbiter Has a really great sinergy with cards like Kor Haven and Maze of Ith bassically preventing then from attacking you at all. It doesn't fly OK, that's the only downside. On my point of view he being collorless is also a good addition since giving prowhite on equipments attached to it (well some times we don't have creatures at all for a long time) won't cause it to fall over. The fact that it's targeted by artifact removal its ok since it is not killed by things like bolt an so on ( it is a 1/5 what also makes him a decent blocker )

If they really want to attack you they will be able to with the muse with arbiter you can just say "no" most of the times.

Divine Reckoning is a good card I've used it for a while but in the end I took it off the fact that they can choose what will stay make it worst than it looks.

@Pedro_Garrit at hotmail dot co

What I like about Windborn Muse is that she gives my opponents a choice: attack me with their army or cast their spells for the turn. They can't do both aside from using removal on Windborn.

Silent Arbiter doesn't do anything against lone, powerful attackers. Windborn at least makes their controllers pay .

Also, Lightning Bolt is terrible in Commander. 3 damage doesn't do a whole lot against the large creatures and life totals of this format. I never see it.

What do you think of Cataclysm, Divine Reckoning, and/or MLD?

@NateJH

Cataclysm and Divine Reckoning both have the major issue of not killing what you want dead. If there's a specific permanent causing you grief, they won't remove it.

Divine Reckoning can stranglehold a token deck. Pop their army with it and the threat of it being recast with flashback slows their redevelopment.

Cataclysm and Mass LD needs you to have the best board presence for them to work in your favour. It's a detriment to the game your probably enjoying when they're used improperly.

Cool deck! I've been following it for a little while and using the list for my Kytheon, Hero of Akros  ^Flip deck.

Do you see any interesting adds from Oath of the Gatewatch? Only thing I was thinking about was Sea Gate Wreckage. What are your thoughts on that?

@vindawg

Nothing from Oath of the Gatewatch is catching my interest. I don't care for Eldrazi, both White Mythics are unusable, the surprise Equipment support cards are draft filler, and the Equipment are terrible.

Sea Gate Wreckage is an awful card draw engine. It does nothing until your hand is empty, you draw a card from it... and then is goes right back to doing nothing again.