I notice that Thalia's Lancers is in the maybeboard and I'm gonna just say it's not really worth it. I ran it in a red white deck and it was just painfully slow and most of the time useless. I would definitely say Selfless Spirit might be a pretty useful inclusion, since you are running Sun Titan, Reveillark and other low cost recursion.
January 8, 2018 9:20 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #3
Thalia's Lancers is far from slow and useless.
- Costing 5 mana doesn't stop Stonehewer Giant from being one of the strongest Equipment support cards available. And in most circumstances, it needs to survive an entire turn before it can tutor. Lancers has the luxury of an ETB trigger.
- Tutors are only as powerful as what they can grab. This deck has a hearty list of legendary permanents to choose from.
- It's also a 4/4 first striker. Great base body to wield Equipment when needed.
Lancers is primarily being considered as a Planeswalker tutor due to Planeswalkers now being Legendary. It'll likely be hanging around the Maybeboard until another worthwhile Planeswalker is printed.
Selfless Spirit wouldn't do a whole lot. This deck doesn't build an army, so a safeguard against a sweeper doesn't go that far.
Not being able to protect Equipment in any way is another strike against it.
January 9, 2018 12:09 a.m.
TCG-Player says... #4
The Immortal Sun
Legendary Artifact
- Players can't activate planeswalkers' loyalty abilities.
- At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
- Spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
- Creatures you control get +1/+1.
I'm very interested about this one from Rivals. It might not be the best include in this deck, but still :)
PS: Sorry, I wasn't able to get the image here. https://www.cardmarket.com/img/e28c40d77b463383301f10b0f3da888a/cards/Rivals_of_Ixalan/the_immortal_sun.jpg
January 9, 2018 7:59 a.m.
NensouHiebara says... #5
I've had 6cmc value artifacts in the deck before and The Immortal Sun is yet another one with the same problems:
- 6 mana is a lot for something that doesn't provide an immediate impact.
- Casting it would use up the mana for the turn without accomplishing anything.
- Value artifacts are often collateral damage from sweepers.
The Immortal Sun also has it own issue of shutting off Nahiri, the Lithomancer. This deck is already host to some bad synergy, and I don't really like adding more.
January 9, 2018 9:32 a.m.
My favorite 6 cmc artifact with a wait for payout has been Gonti's Aether Heart , other than that I do have a hard time swallowing those dead turn artifacts
January 9, 2018 10:52 a.m.
DragaoBonito says... #7
I turned my Arahbo deck into a mono white voltron with balan. The biggest problem with him is shes TOO strong. I was so sick of drawing hate and playing archenemy i made Sram my general who is more unassuming. When you have Balan out people know your strategy and hold on to removal just waiting for her to be cast. I either cast her too soon or too late. I'm not saying she isnt good but i could not pilot her properly and its not fun when a game starts with "oh hes playing balan lets start destroying his shit".
February 18, 2018 9:30 a.m.
Thank you for your detailed explanation on why you selected certain cards over others. Especially, your selection of cartaker over 8.5. I've been challenged to build a kemba, kha regent deck and your list was very helpful.
Questions:How often do you hit multiple equipments in your first couple of turns? Since I'm running kemba do you have a suggestion on how many equipments I might want to run?
Why don't you use mass calcify or austere command? Also what do think about placing crawlspace in your deck?
February 20, 2018 12:08 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #10
I often have at least an Equipment or a tutor in the opening hand. A second Equipment or tutor in the opener or off the top within the first few turns is not uncommon. Equipmentless hands happen, but that's what mulligans are for.
Kemba would need a similar amount of Equipment a this deck. Maybe go up to 18. I see too many lists jam an excessive amount of Equipment expecting Kemba to be suited up with everything and take over the board immediately.
An unchecked Kemba making 1-2 tokens a turn with an active anthem is plenty of pressure. No need to get blown out by a sweeper from overextending.
Austere Command is in my deck. It's the shiny Amonkhet Invocation print too!
Mass Calcify costs too much mana for a creature-only sweeper. Not killing White creatures is also a concern when against other White decks.
I used to run Ghostly Prison and Windborn Muse in the deck to slow down attackers. They worked, but sweepers and spot removal are overall better for handling opposing creatures.
February 20, 2018 6:11 p.m.
TCG-Player says... #11
I would really like to built this deck with a few customizations but my main issue is the pretty high price. So what are some budget cuts you would make? What would you play instead? Please let me know :)
February 24, 2018 5:34 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #12
Argivian Archaeologist can be substituted with Salvage Scout, or Restoration Specialist if your build has more enchantments in it.
It's usually recommended that you bite the bullet and acquire the Mirran Swords. Their combined protections and damage triggers make them highly unique Equipment, with little to no options available as budget replacements.
- Sword of Fire and Ice's card draw can be substituted with Avarice Amulet or Rogue's Gloves.
- Sword of Feast and Famine, unfortunately, has no replacement.
- Sword of Light and Shadow is in the deck primarily as a creature recursion engine. It can be completely dropped if it's not something you find valuable.
Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte are in a similar situation as the Swords: they're unique Equipment without equal. Any Equipment that offer large P/T boosts can be used in their stead, but you should eventually acquire them as well.
Mana Crypt is an overglorified second Sol Ring. It's not essential for anything outside of explosive early games. Any preferred mana rock can take its place.
Sensei's Divining Top is at a relatively cheap price since its Legacy banning. If it's still too much for your budget, Crystal Ball provides repeatable scrying.
Dust Bowl can be replaced with any other Strip Land.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea can be replaced with:
- Geier Reach Sanitarium if you don't mind looting.
- Throne of the High City if you don't mind adding the Monarch effect to the game.
- Arch of Orazca if you don't mind paying more mana and waiting for the city's blessing.
February 24, 2018 11:09 p.m. Edited.
TCG-Player says... #13
@NensouHiebara
First of all, thank you for the fast and very detailed explanation.
I think I'm not going to drop any of the equipments. Especially the swords are very iconic for this deck in my opinion. The problem is that there are so many cards for about 10$ in this deck who simply add up.
I guess you're right and it's time to start saving money :P
February 25, 2018 5:25 a.m.
JoeBlondie says... #14
Actually Darksteel Citadel is a quite safe include since it's indestructible and survives random wipes. It could help triggering Puresteel Paladin's metalcraft or Dispatch if you ever decide do put it in the deck.
February 25, 2018 9:18 a.m.
NensouHiebara says... #15
Merciless Eviction is a sweeper that can exile Darksteel Citadel.
Regardless, Darksteel Citadel is still a colourless land that doesn't do anything. I'm not worried about acquiring metalcraft.
Dispatch is never going in this deck. Ever. There is no legitimate reason to use it when Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares exist.
February 25, 2018 11:08 a.m.
JoeBlondie says... #16
Obviously the idea was that maybe in the future you feel like you need more removal and you add it to swords and path, not that you swap dispatch with any of those two, that would be foolish
February 25, 2018 11:28 a.m.
gzusvictory says... #17
Dude! You replaced Eight-and-a-Half-Tails!? Let me defend this case. This card has done so much work and protects everything from almost everything! You have to agree that it has a much higher ceiling than Devoted Caretaker.
Threat of activation
My favorite includes the fact that it wards off more action than you think. Sure, it stops instants and sorceries, what about everything else like planeswalkers Jace, the Mind Sculptor, like avoiding Eldrazi cast triggers, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, effects of creatures Acidic Slime Trygon Predator, etc. Instants and sorceries are two huge categories, I agree, but the other categories include: creatures, artifacts, lands Maze of Ith, planeswalkers, and enchantments! 5/7 categories? Caretaker can do nothing for you at each of these points!
Cost efficiency
Sure, caretaker wins in this department by costing just a W to cast and a W to activate. I suppose thatcher does reduce the most common category of removal by stopping anything in the form of instants and sorceries. Yeah, 8.5 does cost a single W more and an extra 1W to make something white+pro white, but come on.
Number of activations
Devoted Caretaker can only do his effect once, then thats it. My guy 8.5 can do it how many times!? Once for every set of 2W mana that you have! Sorry, but Devoted Caretaker loses this one.
Swords and Ugin
Playing against pro-white equipment like Sword of Light and Shadow can make it call off of them by making the creature its equipped to White! Devoted Caretaker does not your opponents creatures from getting bigger at all! For Ugin, the Spirit Dragon becomes your best friend, even in the hands of your opponent because it will deter your opponent from using his second mode by making your opponents lands or colorless permanents (if her minuses enough) white! Devoted caretaker only loses this one IF the pro-white swords or Ugin are in your meta!
Evasion
The most important factor: big daddy Balan, Wandering Knight needs to get through your opponents defenses with all his nice toys, but that pesky Fog Bank wants to ruin the fun. Have no fear, 8.5 wins here! Devoted Caretaker does not win in this department because it does not assist in evasion. Sure, it may take a LOT of mana if your opponents are playing a token deck, but when you get mana flooded/opponents have a small count of creatures, Balan will have a lot more help from 8.5 in getting through.
Conclusion
8.5 >Devoted Caretaker
In all honesty, I personally want to take 8.5 out because it has helped me win games almost TOO easily when I draw him late in the game. I just wanted to make a statement for all who does not know the power of 8.5 and the namesake 8.5 alone because we have had history with this card dude! Obviously, not good enough for commander, but I think he deserves to stay in the 99.
February 28, 2018 5:36 a.m.
PyreCracker says... #18
Hey there,
I have been a fan of your deck, since 8.5 was the commander.
I have a serious question: Since you changed the commander from Sram to Balan, I hab serious trouble with keeping my hand stacked. And with such losing the explosive potential, it had before.
Dont get me wrong, the Sword of Fire and Ice is doing a good job, but mostly I get like two cards out of it, before it gets destroyed, mostly because its just too damn dangerous.
I would like to keep Balan as a commander, mainly because, when she is running, she hits like a train!
BUUUT: How do you keep a full hand without the "cantripping" of Sram? And as a follow up question: How do you keep 'in game' with four players on the table?
February 28, 2018 8:37 a.m.
gzusvictory says... #19
@Pyrecracker
Hey, fellow Balan player here. Personally, I am able to keep my hand stacked by searching for card engine equipment like Sword of Fire and Ice, and Recruiter of the Guard can fetch Sram, Senior Edificer or Puresteel Paladin if you feel light on cards.
With four players at the table, I tend to determine which player to take out first and make it less obvious by hitting whoever has the most board presence at the time. I usually keep only one creature out at a time with two equipments out at a time until they wipe the board, then I play the next threat/tutor. Basically, do not dump your whole hand just to get your board wiped. I play more on the conservative side until it narrows down to 1-2 opponents, then I recast Balan, Wandering Knight repeatedly with a haste equipment until they die. Last time, I offered player 1 a bargain to spare me another turn with a promise that I will kill players 2 and 3 before killing player 1. So politics can help buy you time also.
February 28, 2018 10:41 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #20
I'm fully aware of what 8.5 is capable of. He was the Commander of my deck for three years. His abilities are fantastic... but they cost a lot of mana.
8.5, at minimum, requires three mana for his 'shield' to be at the ready. I am now forced to have that three mana open at all times, otherwise my opponents gain a window of opportunity for their targeted removal to function through his 'shield'. Mana is tight in the early-game or when I'm land screwed, and I never wanted to see 8.5 in the opener or draw him early because of this. His 3 mana minimum is a significant stranglehold in these situations. Nothing can be accomplished in a timely manner when my mana is being choked.
Devoted Caretaker fulfills the role of 'Equipment Protector' better by being easier to use. 8.5 is indeed a stronger card, but his mana requirements can be too much too often.
Aside from Sword of Fire and Ice:
- Use one of the land tutors to grab Mikokoro.
- An early Recruiter conscripting Paladin or Sram can maximize the cantrips from Equipment. Obviously not as consistent as Sram in the Command Zone, but the option is there.
- Burning Enlightened Tutor for Sensei's Divining Top can help in a pinch.
I'm currently exploring additional cards that cycle or cantrip. More incremental draws here or there could make the deck run smoother.
Balan can easily handle an entire table as long as you're careful.
- Her effectiveness with minimal Equipment means you don't have to over-commit to the board for high damage output. Once Balan is a 2-turn clock, just save additional Equipment in-hand and Balan can shrug off nearly any sweeper.
- Whenever an alternative threat has a strong presence on the board, refrain from casting Balan. She's at her best when she's still cheaper to cast and the alternative threat will draw out your opponents' removal.
- Don't be afraid to sweep the board even if it means losing an Equipment or two in the process. Keeping opponents off their game makes it easier for Balan to take control.
- Argentum Armor is particularly great for late-game pressure. It makes anything it's attached to a monster and the attack trigger keeps opposing threats off the board.
March 1, 2018 12:05 a.m.
ezigrelnos says... #21
Hey I made a Sram deck that focuses on using higher CMC equipments like this deck, but uses a combination of mana reduction and equipment cheats to compensate for lack of "raw power" that Lady Balan has, but makes up for it with "card advantage".
You have a really great deck here, and I wonder what you would say about my Sram list. Let me know what you think if you do, otherwise congrats on the well thought out deck list I do enjoy it and will be looking at some of these cards a bit more for my list as well!
Thanks
March 6, 2018 10 a.m.
You should totally run lightning greaves in this because it does not prevent you from equipping to Balan. Literally the best voltron commander for lightning greaves.
March 6, 2018 4:27 p.m.
NensouHiebara says... #23
Lightning Greaves still prevents further equips when attached to the deck's other creatures. Balan isn't the only threat the deck has.
I'm never using any Equipment with shroud. They cause too many problems in a deck that requires targeting its own creatures. They're not worth it.
March 6, 2018 5:28 p.m.
Fair enough. What is your opinion on running Hall of the Bandit Lord for the haste and Tatsumasu the Dragon's Fang?
March 6, 2018 5:49 p.m.
About Lightning Greaves, I'd like to point out that I'm playing it in my variant of this deck. Mainly because I don't own a Champion's Helm copy.
Shroud is rarely a problem as long as you have at least two creatures on the battlefield. Just switch the greaves for between them when placing new equipments.
Bonus: It's an extra haste enabler for free, which is great with all our creatures that for something. (Devoted Caretaker, Mother of Runes, etc..)
NensouHiebara says... #1
@Norby
Dust Bowl has a repeatable effect. I can sacrifice another land to pop a utility land and have Dust Bowl remain to pressure the next one.
January 7, 2018 1:45 a.m.