turnyouover says... #2
Oh and why not Nissa Revane ? Although I'm not sure if that card is modern. Heritage Druid doesn't seem to be as good a Llanowar Elves , especially since you need 3 elves to produce the same amount as 3 llanowar elves could. Joraga Treespeaker , Lys Alana Huntmaster , Wood Elves , Elvish Harbinger , Yeva, Nature's Herald , Elvish Piper , Joraga Warcaller , Drove of Elves , or Immaculate Magistrate , may work in this deck
March 20, 2014 4:10 p.m.
turnyouover, keep in mind this is a COMBO deck, not just elf ramp. the elves synergies well into producing mana for his Genesis Wave . a lot of those suggestions would pull away from his combo and leave him with a typical elf deck. play test it, you will see
March 20, 2014 4:29 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #4
turnyouover...first off, I love your name :)
I do run one Nissa Revane
in the Sideboard. It may grow to two...she represents a lot of life-gain which can be important against several matchups.
In terms of Heritage Druid ; I actually already run 4 Elvish Mystic and 3 Llanowar Elves ...I may need to switch it to 4 Llanowar Elves and 3 Heritage Druid ...Heritage Druid turns your Elvish Visionary and Coiling Oracle 's into mana-dorks at instant speed. It also does this for Elvish Archdruid (which happens more than you'd think :). Instant speed mana is important for this deck (especially after a Genesis Wave ) so it's played a pretty strong role in the deck. That and 1-drops are "free" with an active Nykthos... I could look into reducing their count to 3 however.
In terms of all the other Elves; these are all great cards in certain elf tribal decks. Vito1014 and Mattman have interesting decks with some of these cards in them. This deck is a little more on the "combo" scale and needs the card-draw and ramp to function the most efficiently (Fastest) it can . There's just no room...that's what's so tough about elf decks! There's too many good options!
Great suggestions!
March 20, 2014 4:49 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #5
One card I'm flirting with in the board is Unified Will . 90% of the time I will have more creatures than my opponent; so this often would act as a straight up Counterspell...oh sideboard...always a struggle :)
March 20, 2014 10:08 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #6
Hello again TristanTaylorsVoice... Added Rest in Peace over Ground Seal . Thanks for the help!
March 20, 2014 10:43 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #7
And your are 100% right turnyouover...the MASSIVE bulk of this deck's expense is in its lands....while that's true of a lot of decks...in this case it's kind of extreme (as the creatures and spells in the deck are nearly all under $5)....It can be built with just Forest s and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ; but the Cavern of Souls and Horizon Canopy 's go a LONG way to making the deck far more competitive in the current meta. They need to reprint all of the cards over $20 to drop em all by half! I may lose thousands in "card value" but I'd rather there were 10,0000 more players that could play any cards they want than me have another $3,000 in cards I'm not going to sell anyways :)
March 21, 2014 5:43 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #8
At a point now where I am just trying to perfect the sideboard. The only decks I really need to dedicate sideboard space too are:
- Heavy Removal Decks - Red Deck Wins, Control, Grixis, some Jund builds, etc.
- Control - this is less worrisome with the Cavern of Souls , but can still slow us down.
- Extremely Fast Decks - Twin, Affinity (to a lesser extent), Zoo, Living End, Storm, etc.
Most combo decks are fine (as we are just as fast and tend to "go off" more consistently than most due to the numerous lines); however we don't have removal so we have to be faster than their combo (or slow them down by a turn or two).
Cards I am sure of in the sideboard are:
- Leyline of Sanctity - Basically shuts down Scapeshift, Red Deck Wins, Storm, etc.
- Ghostly Prison - Helps against Zoo, Twin (as they can only attack with the creatures they can pay for), and other agro-based "swarm" decks (even living end to an extent).
- Rest in Peace - Graveyard hate is a must. Kill Living End, reduces the power of Tarmogoyf , Snapcaster Mage , and Scavenging Ooze .
- Nature's Claim - Very versatile answer. Attacks Blood Moon , Affinity, Rule of Law , Torpor Orb and other such enchantments/artifacts.
Beyond this, the slots are still open. For the time being I have Spellskite , Nissa Revane (who acts solely as a large life-gain tool), and Fecundity . These are each for specific match-ups; and I am of course still looking for the best available "removal answer" for the board as well. I love where the board is now; but there is always room for improvement!
March 22, 2014 6:14 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #9
My biggest concern right now is Anger of the Gods ...Fecundity is my current answer (as in many situations I will be able to draw right back into another "swarm") however I'm open to any and all ideas/suggestions! Unified Will seemed like an interesting answer to board wipes (as you'd counter them in nearly every situation); however I have yet to test it enough (although that doesn't mean it won't be added :)
March 22, 2014 6:17 p.m.
TristanTaylorsVoice says... #10
Fecundity won't work against Anger of the Gods because the creatures are removed from the game instead of going to the graveyard. Dauntless Escort is a more proactive answer to board wipes, as you'd rather have them waste their turn killing that than your elves. Alternatively Ready / Willing has alternative utility in your deck as well because it untaps all of your elves, but it may be too clunky because it's not a permanent. Is Beck / Call too clunky in this deck to help recover advantage? As for my list, I haven't posted it to this site yet but I'll work on that tommorow and post it to your wall.
March 22, 2014 11:37 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #11
I LOVE the idea of Ready / Willing as there are multiple uses for it (untapping alone can even be huge by itself). That, and I can create black via Abundant Growth in some extreme instances. I' gonna give it a try! Dauntless Escort is also great (and is definitely gonna be tested); but I'm really loving Ready . Thank you!
March 23, 2014 1:02 a.m.
I playtested, and I found that the first three turns were for nothing. Have you also noticed Nykthos is a legendary land? So what I suggest -2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , and +2x Ancient Ziggurat .
March 23, 2014 8:51 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #13
Hey Prima! I apologize; but I didn't really understand your comment. I'm a dunce ;). What did you mean by "the first three turns were for nothing"? I'm always open to criticism; I just got a little lost. Thanks for taking the time!
I'm well aware Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is legendary. There's nothing better than triggering your one on board for. 8 mana to then play your one in hand for another 6 (8-2 needed to trigger it that is already floating) :). Having said this, an opening hand with two hurts ....its rare; but it happens. I'll try to test it with 3 of them and one Ancient Ziggurat (I love the idea!).
Thanks for your help! Sorry for asking you to take more time up. I just wanna make sure I take your ideas into full consideration.
March 23, 2014 1:01 p.m.
Okay, what I meant was the first three turns, I only had two Llanowar Elves on the battlefield, only Nykthos' in hand, then i drew my Genesis Wave , tapped for 8 mana, and put four Elvish Archdruid 's out and won that turn, drawing another genisis wave and revealing 47 cards.
March 23, 2014 1:42 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #15
Ha! Ok . I guess its kinda both a good and a bad thing :). Glad it ended well!
I'm testing the removal of a Nykthos for another land today.
Quick question for you as well...I'm trying to come up with the best defensive spell I can...right now I'm thinking Wrap in Vigor
over Ready
for the simple reason that it costs one less. Ready
is awesome because it can be used for a few different uses; however in the draw I want to be able to protect the board on turns 2-3 and Wrap in Vigor
can do that where Ready
can't. What do you think? I also fiddled with Unified Will
which worked well and was versatile; but green mana is a lot more viable on turn 2 than blue is (for non-creature spells).
I'm thinking Wrap in Vigor is the best option; but I'd like to hear what another, certainly more knowledgable mind thinks (especially someone who has tested the deck). Thanks!
March 23, 2014 2:20 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #16
After more testing (lots and lots at this point :) I'm very happy with where this deck is at. The only real "problem matches" are decks with heavy removal, board wipes, and control...however:
Wrap in Vigor has been very strong in the "board wipe" instances. Basically if you have it and they cast Anger of the Gods on turn-3 (tapping themselves out); you are going to win 9 out of 10 of these matches.
Cavern of Souls is crazy good against control; and most times I simply board out the Genesis Wave 's (as you never want to tap out for a Wave only to have it remanded) and side in Spellskite and Nissa Revane in these instances. Spellskite will eat their bolts and helix's and Cavern of Souls will let you cast all of your elves. Eventually you will simply "beat down" the opponent with a swarm of elves pumped by Elvish Archdruid and/or Ezuri, Renegade Leader or you can cast your Craterhoof Behemoth with your 3rd or 4th Cavern set at "beast". It took a while for me to figure out how to best deal with these match-ups; but this seems to work well. There is just so much card draw that the opponent simply can't deal with every line that arises. I just played an opponent who cast Rule of Law on turn 3, however, it didn't effect me because I could utilize both Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Ezuri, Renegade Leader 's ability.
Spellskite and Leyline of Sanctity are great against Red Deck Wins (and spells with a bunch of burn). Spellskite seems to come in in nearly every match (and I may be moving it up to three of these and three Wrap in Vigor ). For Thoughtseize and removal/hand disruption decks, the Leyline of Sanctity also work quite well.
Spellskite , Ghostly Prison , Rest in Peace , and Leyline of Sanctity are great for all of the super fast combo decks in the format that just play solitaire (we both try to "go off" before the other :). These include Living End, Twin, Storm, and Goyro's decks. Typically, once we have the "beater" card; we win.
Blood Moon decks are typically not an issue because (a) we only really need one basic forest given all of the green mana our creatures can cast and (b) we side in Nature's Claim anyways.
All in all, I am content with where this deck is at in the current meta. I believe it to be competitive; however it takes a LOT of play before you can become comfortable with the correct lines to take against each type of deck. I still struggle with what the "perfect set" of cards to side in and out each game (depending on whether I'm on the play, draw, etc.).
As an aside, Prima made a strong argument for the use of 3 copies of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx rather than four. Given this, I have switched one out for a Reflecting Pool . It has worked out amazingly as it immediately can tap for any color mana when any land is enchanted with Abundant Growth and can also of course tap for Green in 99% of matches (as I've never actually had to play it on turn one :) Thanks Prima!
I'll try to keep everyone updated of any changes in the board or main; and will continue to update with the continued testing I do. Thanks again for everyone who has helped, comments, suggested, and/or provided a +1 !
March 23, 2014 6:05 p.m.
MakoLifeStream says... #17
Overwhelming Stampede > Overrun . oh nvm, you arent playing overrun.
and replace 1 Elvish Mystic with a Green Sun's Zenith . its a great tutor for any creatures and trumps the draw.
why no Coat of Arms ?
March 25, 2014 4:24 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #18
MakoLifeStream....I had Coat of Arms in here; and it actually may be more useful against board wipes than other cards. I just ran out of room and found that the other win-cons seemed to be more consistently powerful. Having said this; I do need to try Coat of Arms again to see how it tests in this build. Great suggestion!
Yeah...the Overrun is just Garruk Wildspeaker 's ultimate. The nice thing is that he can do it the turn after he's cast!
I would LOVE to use Green Sun's Zenith ; but unfortunately it's banned in Modern. :(
Thanks for all the great ideas! I will be testing out Coat of Arms tonight. Thank you!
March 25, 2014 5:23 p.m.
Imperious Perfect ,Joraga Treespeaker , and Joraga Warcaller would be amazing for this deck. Not sure if you can play them in Modern.
March 25, 2014 5:38 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #21
turnyouover...if comments get really long, many people on here (including myself) will use an option provided on tapped out when you provide an Update to "absorb" the comments prior to the update. This deck has had over 300 comments; so I typically will clean them up any time I make a change and an update. Did I not address your suggestion? Please feel free to provide it again if you think its something that didn't get adequately resolved/addressed. I'm open to any ideas; and typically address each comment directly by linking the commenter. Was there a change you believe should be made?
March 25, 2014 6 p.m.
rastarracer says... #22
+1 on the deck! I am working on building this deck and I can't wait to play it. One card I had thought about though while looking through the deck is Primal Surge . What do you think about it? It could be an alternate Genesis Wave .
March 26, 2014 8:25 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #23
Thanks rastarracer! I appreciate the +1! They are like gold here :)
Primal Surge
is a great (and very cost effective) alternative to Genesis Wave
. I like the versatility of Genesis Wave
(i.e. that it can be cast with 6 mana and 10, etc.) but Primal Surge
has HUGE potential. Most likely it would win 9 out of 10 times it's cast!
I would LOVE it if you linked your deck here when you were done building it. Even if it is only one card different; I would like anyone thinking about building a similar deck to see other options.
March 26, 2014 11:05 p.m.
rastarracer says... #24
Will do CurdBrosBrewingCo. I am planning on building it exact to your spec, then modifiying it as need be. If I can I will try it out in a few tournaments and let you know how I do. I had a legacy version before and it was ok, but it didn't have the punch in it like Genesis Wave could deliver.
March 27, 2014 2:09 a.m.
BattleWalrus says... #25
Hey there guys! I've got a really similar deck to this. Elven Sanctuary. I'm using Joraga Treespeaker Instead of Heritage Druid and it's a little more mid range than this deck seems. I love the splash of blue for the extra card advantage!
How do you guys find Umbral Mantle handle? Looks like a pretty interesting card, especially if i were tapping my elves for 2.
Is the Abundant Growth in there for extra card advantage and mana fixing for the Coiling Oracle and if so, is the advantage worth the 4 slots in the deck over dual lands and possibly some other cards?
turnyouover says... #1
Wow, just by looking at the lands, I could tell this deck was worth $500+, didn't even have to look at the price.
March 20, 2014 3:14 p.m.