Izu_Korasu says... #2
not sure about the dollar cost to usefulness ratio of 4x Misty Rainforest in a mono colored deck where your mostly going to be fetching that one Breeding Pool , then Forest s especially when you have Cavern of Souls to back you up for that tiny splash of blue ... but whatever works, that's just my 2 cents. something like Twincast might be helpful as a sideboard in either games where you aren't able to setup your ideal ramp as well for Genesis Wave or to MAD an opponents instant/sorcery. All and all a fun deck, looks like a fun play if your opponent doesn't mess with your field presence too much.
February 22, 2014 10:14 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #3
IzuKorasu.... Twincast would be hilarious on a Genesis Wave :). You are also absurd right that Misty Rainforest s are not absolutely needed. If one wanted to make a budget version if the deck they could easily go (maybe add a second or third Breeding Pool ...but that's also not entirely necessary given the Cavern of Souls , Abundant Growth , and even Utopia Sprawl s can produce the one blue needed. I have the Misty's; so there was no real reason not to use them; as I may take slighty less damage than running all breeding pools, and they thin the deck a little (although I doubt this effect is huge). The deck would run as smoothly 99% of the time it does now without the Misty Rainforest s.
It is a fun deck! Disruption is tough and that's why so much card draw and ramp is needed. If they pick at your board; you've got to be able to refill if :). It's still got a lit of testing until I feel the sideboard is where it needs to be to play against the super disruptive match-ups.
I can't thank you enough for your suggestions and your +1. Such thoughtful ideas show your depth of how cards play out ! Thank you!
February 22, 2014 11:24 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo: to answer your question about Garruk, three in the main seems to be working much better than four was. I think he's still necessary because he either makes a 3/3, untaps forests with Utopia Sprawl and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , and he can Overrun your team. And I'd leave Nissa Revane in the sideboard because it's bonkers against aggro decks.
I just finished playing another 10 games (main decks only) of this deck vs my zoo deck, and my zoo deck won 6 out of the 10. The big problem with your new version is that it doesn't necessarily have a finisher coming off the top of a big Genesis Wave . And I never once was able to steal the opponent's lands with Gilt-Leaf Archdruid . The idea is cute, but it's not a finisher. What is nice about them is that they provide two devotion and draw cards. I suggest taking one of those out and putting the single Craterhoof back in.
I see why Voyaging Satyr is in the deck, but isn't Elvish Archdruid or Ezuri, Renegade Leader just better?
I also had a couple questions. How does this deck deal with cards like Ethersworn Canonist , and how well does it do against other decks that aren't aggro?
February 23, 2014 10:49 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #5
Hey dcarpntr...
Thanks for your help! I always try to put out each idea so that both I and anyone that wants to can test it. I start by going "all out" then dial it back and add back in as many win-cons as possible. That's why I ask so many questions. I like to get the community's opinion on any idea (I can only test so much :) I used to just write out ideas in the "update" section; but I found that actually writing out the different lists helped others both test and see the ideas. It worked well with the Mono-Green Devotion deck (as it went from G/U to G/R and switched out some cards several times before getting to its "secure" spot). I know it gets confusing; but pretty much once every idea has been tested; you know where the deck should be :) I can't tell you how much it helps me that you have been testing it and taking the time to provide your feedback. I truly and honestly appreciate it.
I agree that Garruk is needed. I tested the deck without him and it just gets too cute. You draw a little more; but your waves aren't as big and you don't get the Overrun ability. That, and the wolf ends up being more useful than I thought!
I am testing the Gilt-Leaf Archdruid win-con today quite a bit more than I did yesterday. I was able to pull off the "steal the lands" on all of my waves but one; but that could literally just be luck (as I need to test it at least 50+ games over different archetypes to see how often this happens).
The deck is great against aggro builds (especially post sideboard) as you simply can block until you wave and Nissa Revane
will eventually give you the life you need to go over the top.
Control is an extremely difficult match-up. You have to be very careful. The Cavern of Souls help a TON because you make sure you get out all of your "draw a card" guys to keep your card advantage up. You have to side quite substantially (and I still think there is room in the sideboard to add a little more against control...some of which I will try to add today if I play enough control match-ups). Obviously, if you are luck enough to hit a Boseiju, Who Shelters All ; it makes them tough to counter anything :)
Against Merfolk, you just don't play your Breeding Pool . Eventually you will have more than them (often rather quickly) and as long as they don't spreading seas you extremely fast (like turn 2-3) and get out a good amount of lords; you can win relatively consistently. Again, Nissa Revane can be big here.
Pod is also a tough match-up because they can combo off quickly (and you don't have any removal in game one). They don't interact with you much either though; so it kinda becomes a game of solitaire :) Game two you can destroy their Pod's which makes things a lot easier (as it slows their combo down a bit). I need to test more against this, as my brother and I are just now getting proficient with the Melira version (as we were much more proficient with the Kiki-Pod version and it seems Melira-Pod is the more popular build now).
Every match-up still isn't like 80/20. Your happy when you start over 50% :) Many of the decks in Modern are SO amazing and tuned that it takes hundreds of games to figure out where a deck can position itself to be able to play against any of them. And there will always be a match-up that is under 50/50 for every deck. It is extremely difficult to make a deck that can compete in the Modern format (trust me, we try to do it daily :) The MOST important thing, however, is that you find a deck that fits your play-style and then get perfect with it. Modern is a format where you can get away with playing a slightly "worse" deck if you know how to play the deck well (and more importantly how to play against each other deck). In the end though, you play against crazy good decks!
I am testing the deck today quite a bit and I will let you know the following items:
If Gilt-Leaf Archdruid remains a win-con. This is instant speed off of a wave; where unless given haste sometimes Ezuri, Renegade Leader is not....however with enough mana even having only 1-3 non-summoning sick elves can give you enough power (getting +10/+10 or more and trample) can give you the win.)
If I am adding Craterhoof Behemoth back in.
Sideboarding changes.
Hopefully this will help a little. I can't thank you enough for your help with this deck! I hope this provides a little more information; but I will try to provide what I can later today after testing.
February 23, 2014 12:53 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #6
Testing out Defense Grid against control, twin, etc.....like it quite a bit!
I don't play much (at all) on their turn, so this is a very one-sided card :)
February 23, 2014 1:08 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #7
Defense Grid has also been really good against twin (as they can't play the Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite on my turn to do the "one turn combo" as it simply costs too much). Still left in Spellskite for some burn decks/cards; but the sideboard is coming along.
February 23, 2014 1:17 p.m.
A way that you can avoid the Breeding Pool problem in the Merfolk matchup is to run one less forest and take out the Breeding Pool, and instead run 2x Flooded Grove . You won't be able to fetch your blue mana source with Misty Rainforest , but with eight color fixing enchantments (Abundant Growths and Utopia Sprawls), it shouldn't really be an issue to be able to produce blue mana by turn 3.
February 23, 2014 3:55 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #9
That is a really great idea dcarpntr. I'll give it a try right now!
February 23, 2014 4:07 p.m.
While I like the Flooded Grove > Breeding Pool concept, in playtesting this a few times just now, I've run into trouble several times with only half of the lands being forests, versus Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl requiring forests specifically. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I thought it worth mentioning. Love the deck, though--I'm keeping an eye on this. :) ...I hadn't even noticed that most of these were Druids until now.
February 23, 2014 10:54 p.m.
I agree with Aldazar. It has happened to me a few times as well. Consider putting the fetch lands back in to find those forests.
February 24, 2014 12:13 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #13
Aldazar...I do agree. I take every suggestion seriously though ( especially when they are backed up with reasoning from someone who's opinion I really respect like dcarpntr). That , and I'm a big proponent of posting every idea (no matter how crazy most are :) and testing them (and hoping others do as well)...I've ran I to some great interactions I never would have thought of (I tend to see way more playing than I can in my head...
That being said, you are right. There are a lot of non-basics (between the. Cavern of Souls and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ...so Forest s are paramount.
I've added back in both the Misty Rainforest and the Breeding Pool . But I still stand say don't play the breeding pool against Merfolk! :)
Thank you not only for this suggestion, but also for testing the deck and you kind words. I'll try to keep it posted with any changes.
February 24, 2014 1:16 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #14
And Aldazar, I couldn't believe how many of the elves were Druids!
I wish Elvish Visionary was!
I was really just looking to see if there were any ways for me to use elves to find an instant speed way to take advantage of them right after a Genesis Wave . Ezuri, Renegade Leader is good; but you don't want too many in the deck as the are legendary, you have a lot of mana, and you have to make sure you have at least 1 un -summoning sick elf. It was just lucky finding Gilt-Leaf Archdruid . Seemed like an upgrade from Masked Admirers (although I do live that card as it does a lot) in this deck.
Now I just have to test it more :). I'm finding the sideboard choices are the most important factor to beating a lot of decks; so it's been a big focus now. Of course; any suggestions are welcome :)
Thanks again!
February 24, 2014 1:41 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #15
Vito1014....thank you! By the way, love your Elf Beatdown deck. Such amazing synergy between Heritage Druid and Elvish Promenade I never would have thought of until I tried your deck. I need to post it on here so people can see it from here....I'll get the link .
February 26, 2014 1:27 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #16
Its Elf Beatdown **Undefeated 1v1** Check it out if you wanna see an Aggro-based elf deck that's as fast as decks like Affinity. Great job Vito1014.
February 26, 2014 1:31 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #17
One card I absolutely want to play is Drove of Elves ...it seems like such a great fit with all the one-drop enchantments and Genesis Wave s that drop 20+ permanents....just need a way to ensure its instant and trample...
Going to try a build with Drove of Elves and Akroma's Memorial .
February 26, 2014 1:50 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #18
The deck is running really well now. I will have the Control/Disruption deck testing results in a day or two (as I am not getting as many games in as I would like; and I am fidgeting with the sideboard to perfect it); but I can say that the "take the lands" deal is far more powerful against these decks than aggro :) One thing I'm finding, however, is that I want to find another viable mana-sink. Love to hear any ideas!
February 26, 2014 10:45 p.m.
Although it's not quite a mana sink, Chord of Calling as maybe a 2-of here could be strong. Mind Spring effects are strong in decks like these, as well. I've found that with enough ramp, Garruk, Caller of Beasts can really crank out the card advantage, although to add him, your creature count might want to be higher. You could also throw in a Kessig Wolf Run and a Stomping Ground for an alternate win, maybe with a few Primeval Titan s, but then this deck would be a bit too much like your other devotion variants. Even Polukranos, World Eater can help here, since his ability is incredible with a lot of mana.
February 26, 2014 11:53 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #20
My God ProfessorDucky...that is a huge list of ALL great ideas! I will literally be trying every single one of them out. Thank you so much!
February 27, 2014 1:14 a.m.
you change this deck to much. are you sure its better than the way it last was when I commented here? it doesn't seem so. it seems slower, no?
February 27, 2014 2:20 a.m.
jaggthemiller says... #22
replace Coiling Oracle with Courser of Kruphix you can go mono green / add in shrine to nyx just made it better :)
February 27, 2014 3:55 a.m.
jaggthemiller says... #23
and how about Elvish Mystic instead of Arbor Elf
February 27, 2014 3:57 a.m.
jaggthemiller says... #24
and Door of Destinies over Abundant Growth but thats just me specially if you take out Coiling Oracle . that switch breaks tribal alittle but works way better
February 27, 2014 4:02 a.m.
jaggthemiller - tisk tisk. read the description of the deck before posting.
curd, his posts made me sad. i have nothing left to say.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #1
dcarpntr...thanks so much for testing it! I'm so glad to hear that it did well against Zoo (especially since it made up the largest percentage of the PT). Nissa Revane also really hurts Zoo; so post-sideboard I should be ok (although if it is a favorable match-up to begin with I may not need to waste SB space on it).
I've added Craterhoof to the list, and I am testing today as well (nothing more fun than watching a Modern Pro Tour while playtesting Modern!!!) Thanks for suggesting it!
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Garruk Wildspeaker ? Was it important in your games? I am running three now and want to make sure they are necessary. It has been an all-star in my other two devotion decks (it's amazing with Utopia Sprawl and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ). This deck just runs a little differently; and I didn't know if it was better to add a little more card draw (since there is plenty of ramp)...A Garruk on a wave, however, can be huge if you don't hit another Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (as it can untap it to string another wave). I'm testing the deck with 1,2,3, and none; so I will see...I just like to get other people's opinion's who have played the deck.
Thanks for the suggestion, the help testing, and the kind words!
February 21, 2014 3:12 p.m.