I also think Nissa is too slow for this deck. Even if you could get Nissa out turn two or three, you could only activate her ultimate five turns later. That assumes you keep her on the battlefield for that long without her taking any damage. If this deck performs correctly, you'd want to have won by then. Is the idea that in a grind game you could use her second ability to stay alive longer until you can trigger the ultimate? Curious as to your thought process here. I can definitely see why its an attractive include, but I'm not sure it fits.
May 22, 2016 1:29 p.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #3
I agree in that I'm not sure if Nissa fits this deck. However, my thought process is that if the game gets past turn 8 and you haven't already won for some reason, you've got her lifegain to sustain you until you can overwhelm them. She may be a sideboard option for tough match ups. I'm still quite new to deck building, especially in modern, so I'm learning a lot daily putting these together.
May 22, 2016 3:19 p.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #4
Thanks so much for the input by the way, I'll end up switching a few things around this afternoon. My reasoning for Joraga Warcaller was actually just to buff the elves enough to not get crushed by those "deal 3 damage to all creature" spells I've seen my friends that play competitive run. Your thoughts?
May 22, 2016 3:22 p.m.
If you think Joraga fits your local meta, by all means run him. I don't think you're the only one who likes him in this deck. Here's my though process behind why he doesn't necessarily jive with this deck.
(1) If you drop him on turn 1, he's just a 1/1 for 1 with no upside of his own.
(2) If you get him out there on turn 2/3 he might be bigger, but to kick him, you'd need mana that you'd probably want to use to get more elves on the board by straight up summoning them or by using CoCo or Chord. If you spend the mana kicking him here, there may not be many elves to benefit from his ability.
Again, he's better later into game. However, this deck is aggro. It wants to win FAST. Any effort to have a late game comes at the cost of reducing the decks ability to threaten early. This is why I'm not sure about Nissa here either.
I have the tendency of wanting my decks to do it all, but I find the best decks are those which do one or two things really really well. Your sole purpose here should be to drop elves fast and attack for lethal early.
Plus, Ezuri pumps. You already have a creature that can pump and Ezuri gives your elves trample. I really think Joraga doesn't make the cut for this deck. Of course, if you play-test and for some reason find him essential to this deck winning in your local meta, to hell with what I have to say about it.
May 23, 2016 1:08 a.m.
Further Dwynen didn't make the cut for my deck because you can't grab her with CoCo. She's a 4-drop, which means if you get her in the six cards on top of your deck when you play CoCo, she's going right to the bottom. I also don't think life-gain is necessary in this deck, and her +1/+1 ability doesn't do all that much compared to Ezuri's pump. Also, you have Elvish Archdruid to give your elves a little boost when he comes into play. I'd scratch the two copies of Dwynen too. I'd definitely run four of CoCo (Collected Company) and four of Heritage Druid also.
All of your elves have a CMC of 3 or less, which is perfect. Dwynen is an outlier. I like the card, just not for this build.
Whether you keep Joraga or not, Hardened Scales should go. It only gives you an additional +1/+1 for each creature when Joraga drops. Just not worth two spots in your deck. Throw in two more Shaman of the Pack, or maybe one more Shaman and one more Nettle Sentinel. Remember, elves is a creature deck!
Vernal Bloom seems like a good card in this deck, but I'm not sure if its necessary or all that helpful. It only benefits from the tapping of forests, which, ideally, will be the smallest amount of your mana produced throughout a game. Your creatures take care of most of the mana production. Plus, it really only has a significant impact later into the game when you would potentially have more forests on the battlefield. Again, a late game comes at the sacrifice of the early game.
This is a creature deck. All non-creature spells should be carefully scrutinized before inclusion. The synergy happening in this deck occurs between your creature spells. This is also why I'm unsure about Elvish Promenade. Not sure I see a use for this. You'll be flooding the board with plenty of elves throughout the game. Not sure you'll need a few extra 1/1's at the cost of one mana each.
Just more of my thoughts on this. I'm speaking from experience playing with the deck, but, again, if your meta is different, by all means, play to it and structure your deck with it in mind.
Just giving my best critique of the deck! Hope its given you some things to think about at least. Good luck with the build. I absolutely love playing elves in modern. CoCo really made this deck come to life.
May 23, 2016 1:26 a.m.
A few more thoughts -
Consider a few copies Elvish Visionary. Since you're going to be dumping your hand onto the board (or trying to) Elvish Visionary either helps you ensure you have creatures in your hand to dump onto the battlefield, or a CoCo or Chord to go and grab them from your library with. Card advantage is always good! Visionary has helped me win a few games.
If you can afford it (but very few people can), Cavern of Souls helps avoid countering of essential creatures (Archdruid, Heritage Druid, Ezuri). If you can't afford it, Gaea's Herald, which you already have in your sideboard, is a good include (1 or 2 of) against decks which run counter-spells of various kinds. Spellskite(s) are good to have in the sideboard too if you can afford one or two.
Consider side-boarding a scavenging ooze, which really helps you punish an opponent for board wipe!
May 23, 2016 1:42 a.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #8
Thanks so much! I'm definitely guilty of wanting the deck to do everything well, instead of focusing on one aspect of it. I'm teetering with Elvish Promenade, but I think that's because I love tokens. Not to mention, one of those with a decent board presence, followed by CoCo-ing shaman of the pack can one-shot opponents. I changed the board list up from your suggestions, I'll sideboard joraga and see if he's even necessary (he probably won't be). Thanks again!
May 23, 2016 2:25 p.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #9
I tossed in Jagged Scar Archers to deal with flyers, your thoughts?
May 23, 2016 2:29 p.m. Edited.
BobFromAccounting says... #10
Cavern of Souls? Tribal strategy and fixes your mana when you need that Shaman of the Pack. Could also consider some number of Gilt-Leaf Palace over Llanowar Wastes.
If you like the Shaman of the Pack strategy and going wide, Dwynen's Elite over the archers, maybe find a spot in the sideboard. Also, Prowess of the Fair helps against some removal heavy matchups.
I'd run some number of Imperious Perfect over Elvish Promenade. Comes in off of CoCo, fetchable off of Chord, and gives you a lord effect.
May 23, 2016 3:26 p.m. Edited.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #11
Thanks Bob! I much prefer Cavern of Souls and Gilt-Leaf Palace over Llanowar wastes as well. However the price points of the two were more than I wanted to spend at this time. I wanted to include things that functioned roughly the same, for much less of a price if possible. Since I can bring out Shaman of the Pack with Collected Company and Chord of Calling, I won't really be relying on Cavern of Souls (though in a world where I have $100+ to spend on a mana base I would totally get them).
Prowess of the Fair is an excellent suggestion. I'll sideboard that for sure. I'll keep the Imperious Perfect/Elvish Promenade switch on my mind as I playtest. (I personally really enjoy the elf-doubling aspect of Promenade, versus only adding one elf per turn, since I don't really need another +1/+1
May 23, 2016 5:09 p.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #12
Also Bob, the archers were meant to deal with any fliers (my local playgroup uses a decent bit of them). If I were to sub them for Dwynen's Elite, what would you suggest I do against fliers? Should I just sideboard the archers? Thanks again!
May 23, 2016 5:11 p.m.
BobFromAccounting says... #13
Aye, Cavern of Souls is pricey, Gilt-Leaf Palace isn't too terrible. With 14x Forests, you could also consider Woodland Cemetery if you're building on a budget.
As far as Imperious Perfect vs. Elvish Promenade, there are a couple reasons why it may work out better. First, it's playable with CoCo, whereas Promenade isn't. Non-creature spells are also a liability with CoCo. Running a creature heavy deck, you will want to hit as many creatures as possible (Promenade does no good if you end up tucking it to the bottom). It also provides you another lord effect against midrange decks to be able to go toe-to-toe with their bigger creatures. Promenade is also a CMC 4 spell which competes with CoCo (which would you feel more likely to cast with both in your hand?). Not to say you shouldn't use Promenade, but I might go 50/50 split.
I would probably just sideboard the archers. Without haste, you have to get them off CoCo on opponent's turn, or wait a turn to use them. If the idea is to try to one-shot by ripping a Shaman of the Pack off the top or with a Collected Company or Chord of Calling, then going as wide as possible as fast as possible will help accomplish this. Taking a couple hits from some fliers doesn't matter so much if you can pop them for 20 life.
Another option that is fairly budget would be some number of Stirring Wildwood. It's fairly cheap to activate it if you need to and can block with reach. In addition to green, it also provides white mana if you have to hardcast a Burrenton Forge-Tender. You could maindeck 2-of, drop the 2x Canopy Vista from the sideboard and have room to run something else in there.
May 23, 2016 8:43 p.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #14
Great suggestions! Thanks again! I'll make the modifications, I do believe you're right.
May 23, 2016 11:01 p.m.
Really like the newest update to your deck. I still think those two copies of Elvish Promenade should go in favor of two elf creatures of your choosing. I'd again suggest two Elvish Visionary for some card advantage.
Other than that, I'd just tweak the sideboard to your meta and you're good to go.
I agree with Bob that the Llanowar Wastes could be swapped out for better options, but the land base of this deck really doesn't need to have too much money put into it. I really don't think it makes a big difference.
Cheers
May 24, 2016 12:08 a.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #17
Thanks again manafauna, and I'll likely end up doing just that. I want to assemble the deck and test a bit. As you said, the promenade's likely won't be necessary. In which case, they're definitely getting swapped for the visionaries. Also Phoenix, I liked craterhoof toward the beginning of this build, but it looks like the match will likely be done before craterhoof would really be of any use to me. Thanks for the suggestion though!
May 24, 2016 1:12 a.m.
Hi there! As a frequent modern Elves player I have a couple suggestions for the deck :)
First one is Cavern of Souls. Seriously great card, especially for tribal! You should check it out :D
Second one is I'm not a huge fan of the tokens! They can be great and really overwhelming, but as this deck is marked competitive, I have a few problems with tokens that I think that should be brought up if you don't already know them. In modern, board clears are really, really common. Common to the point where if it's not in the mainboard of every deck in modern, it's the sideboard.
Anger of the Gods, Wrath of God, Black Sun's Zenith, Damnation... I can go on forever. Token's generally aren't going to last, which is what makes it unpopular. An army of 1/1's isn't particularly scary when it comes to cards like that. If you're really sold on the tokens though, you don't need anymore lords in the deck. I'd just max out on Elvish Promenade and take out Imperious Perfect.
You definitely need some lifegain mainboard as well. I know someone said above that it's not good, but after some extreme playtesting with it at a bunch of FNMs, Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen has given me some impressive wins and very effective lifegain. Even if it isn't hit with CoCo, you can still chord it or just hardcast it. Four mana isn't that much. If you don't want the Dwynen, then you at least need a Scavenging Ooze mainboard.
You also need a Spellskite mainboard for creature protection.
And also, if you are running black, you CANNOT run white in your sideboard. It's a no no, and it always will be. Your deck consistency goes in the trash if you do. If you're going to run black in your deck, take out the two green white lands and finish the playset of G/B. For the sideboard, take out the few white cards and just put Abrupt Decay in all the open slots.
If you're going to run white, get rid of both the green white and black green lands and run four Razorverge Thicket. If you can't get the thickets, Sunpetal Grove is the budget option. You can keep all white in the sideboard in that case, just get rid of the Shamans and put in the Spellskite, Scooze, and add another Dwynen's elite maybe!
Here's my modern elves primer :) if you want you can take a look at it! It explains card choices and as well has certain matchups with good information in those
Here's my competitive build with elves! I've had a ton of success and a ton of fun with it! So definitely check it out and give it a +1 :D
May 30, 2016 2:24 a.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #19
Thanks for the great advice! I'll definitely make a few modifications to the deck. My local meta is slightly different it seems from most, and the massing tokens, then dropping a shaman has been super effective so far. Board wipes haven't really been an issue, as the curve is so low I can repopulate the board insanely quickly. I'll change this up in a bit, thanks again!
May 30, 2016 11:37 a.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #20
Also, what about mainboarding Prowess of the Fair to give some assistance with board wipes?
May 30, 2016 11:40 a.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #21
And if lifegain is the goal, what if I mainboarded Rhys the Exiled instead of Daen? Then I don't have to attack with a lot of elves for a lot of lifegain, just Rhys. I would totally include Cavern of Souls, but personally I just refuse to pay $50 for a land haha
May 30, 2016 11:43 a.m.
Well Rhys is good I guess, but the most effective lifegain is Scavenging Ooze. That and Spellskite are mandatory mainboard.
May 31, 2016 12:08 a.m.
Whiskerbiscuit says... #23
I totally agree, I would mainboard both of spellskite wasn't $30 haha.
MANAFAUNA says... #1
I have a GB Elves build as well, and its pretty standard. I really didn't stray too far from the archetype. Any reason why you scratched Chord of Calling from the archtype build? Really great card for grabbing exactly what Elf you need exactly when you need it, plus your elves can help pay for its mana cost. I run 4 Shaman of the Pack so I can tutor with Chord, drop the Shaman, and hit my opponent for a lot of life loss.
Why bother with Arbor Elf? I'd substitute another Llanowar Elves, Elvish Archdruid, Heritage Druid, and Shaman of the Pack.
I see what you're trying to do with Joraga and Hardened Scales, but that strategy may just be a little too slow for this deck. It only seems worth your time to play later into the game when you can kick it with a ton of mana. Ezuri seems like it fits the role you're trying to fill with Joraga. It also gives your elves trample and stays on the battlefield. Joraga can only be kicked when it comes into play, meaning you have to hold it in your hand until the right time. That sort of goes against the "flood the board" strategy of this deck. These two cards just don't seem worth the inclusion it to me. I'd drop and maybe put in another Ezuri.
CoCo should be an automatic 4 of, IMO.
I guess my view on this deck was: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I just run the archetype with a few Shamans thrown in.
My $.02. I'd test this against other decks frequently played at your LGS and see what you think you need to change about it to make it function better. Maybe you'll be pushed in the direction of a more standard build, or maybe you'll just have to slightly tweak what you have here.
Good luck. Have fun!
May 22, 2016 1:12 p.m.