nissa revane

Is this deck meant to be casual or competitive? Unfortunately, it would not perform well in an actual Legacy event.

Thanks very much for all of the thoughtful comments! I appreciate all pieces of constructive advice and feedback that you guys have to offer.

A quick response to the recent discussion. I will follow up with an update soon this week.

The Progenitus -Natural Order idea proposed by Sam_I_Am is indeed extremely potential. I see now after receiving further explanation that this combo can prove to be game-ending and extremely dangerous in any deck tailored to the concept.

This concept is one that deserves much consideration. However, it will probably require a severe remodeling of the current structure, and so instead I will probably experiment with building an entirely different deck around this very idea.

I've taken a close look at Sam_I_Am's deck, Hybrid Elves. The deck rides a very elegant balance between the Elfball combo and Self-Sustaining Beatdown. Cards like Imperious Perfect , Joraga Warcaller , and Staff of Domination in the deck keeps the Elves well in number, strength, and ability, while Glimpse of Nature , Elvish Visionary , and the deck's array of other useful one-drops (such as Nettle Sentinel , Joraga Warcaller , Quirion Ranger , and Llanowar Elves ) breathes and lives the legendary Elfball Combo.

Indeed, as suggested before by Sam_I_Am, the featured card Krosan Grip in the decklist is well worth noting, since it clearly proves superior to the Naturalize placed in the sideboard of this deck. I will definitely make an effort to replace the card in this week's update.

Mozerdozer's criticism of the listed endgame card Helix Pinnacle is definitely well-placed. 100 mana does not seem easily manageable in the first 4-5 turns, and probably proves less than optimal when compared to alternatives such as Epic Struggle and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn even if/when the match makes it to late game. Thus, I have decided to remove it from the list in this week's update.

Nissa Revane is indeed an excellent suggestion put forth by 8vomit. However, from what I've read in my research of other Elf tribal decks, the card is a tad bit slow in making itself useful in the game. It's '+1' ability of 'Gain 2 Life for each Elf you control' is indeed an invaluable ability, but it's trump use of placing Elves onto the battlefield unfortunately doesn't come into existence until 7 turns later. Still, the card deserves a good amount of consideration.

Finally, in response to magicthevlog, I have not yet determined the actual direction for the use of this deck. Ideally, it will be at least semi-competent in "less serious" legacy events. Truthfully, however, I'm looking to start from the bottom and work my way up; that is, I aim to begin by (hopefully) winning competitive casual matches at my local game shop.

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Thanks to everyone for your wonderful feedback! This deck is very much open to any suggestions that you may have to offer. Currently, I am trying to reach a consensus as to whether Riptide Replicator should be removed in replacement of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , or if the current arrangement should reign superior. The rest of the sideboard is still very muddled in design, and is open to any comments and constructive criticisms as well. I can see plenty of potential weaknesses in this deck.

As I am still relatively new to Magic the Gathering, I would indeed greatly appreciate any suggestions and/or constructive criticism that you may have to offer.

@Solomon: I'd like to offer my perspective on Legacy elves.

More than 20 lands is an enormous faux-pas. You can generate more mana then you know what to do with from your critters and slots for diverse win conditions are important. I'd suggest a manabase of 19 Forest and 1 card:Gaea's Cradle. You can of course remove Forests and add Wirewood Lodge s as you see fit. Oran-Rief, the Vastwood is actually too slow for elves in Legacy.

A few staple elves that you are missing are Quirion Ranger (she does the job of the Lodge while beating), Wood Elves (ramp that beats), and Sylvan Ranger (lets you hit land drops every turn and beats).

I would also advise you to cut 1 Coat of Arms , Riptide Replicator , both Slate of Ancestry and Aluren . I believe that 4 Coats is too much when drawing one will end the game just as quickly as drawing two. This is entirely dependent on personal preference. The Replicator is an excellent mana dump, but it is a terribly slow one. I'd cut the Slates because if you have enough creatures to abuse them, you should already be swinging to win. Aluren is a combo enabler, and you are not using it to enable a combo. In my opinion you would be better off ramping into more elves than a 4 mana enchantment.

If you do free these five slots, I would suggest bringing one or two Genesis Wave to the mainboard and filling the remaining slots with cards such as Fauna Shaman or Worldly Tutor in order to increase consistency.

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Additionally, I believe Elvish Promenade to be too slow for Legacy elves, but this card could easily remain in your mainboard, especially as the deck develops.

Some other syngeries that you may with to include in your deck are as follows.

Ezuri Package:

Ezuri, Renegade Leader + Copperhorn Scout

This interaction capitalizes on your big mana elves, allowing for them to attack and simultaneously activate Ezuri.

Infinite Mana/Infinitely Large Critter:

Umbral Mantle equipped to an Archdruid or Priest will allow for infinite mana and beats.

These suggestions come from my own experiences with constructing a budget elf deck in Legacy. My list at the moment plays 18 Forests and I'd estimate its ability to goldfish by turn four at above 50%.

MAKE THE MUSIC STOP! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY

throw in some more enchantment and artifact destruction or you will suffer the consequences when you play against someone who keeps Pithing Needle , Propaganda , and other control spells.

theoretically your deck plays extremely quickly, but you have no cards like Glimpse of Nature to strengthen your deck. Chances are you will play all the cards in your hand quickly, but then slow down to a snail's pace when you no long have any cards in your hand.

also, Heritage Druid works better with Nettle Sentinel .

please do note that i am aware you have Slate of Ancestry , but i assure you ESPECIALLY in an elf deck, 4 mana cost during early game is extremely expensive to play and activate, elven "snowball" effects absolutely need ever bit of mana it can get early game otherwise the elfball will get delayed to oblivion.

ofcourse this is all theoretical, please do test out your deck with Slate of Ancestry or Glimpse of Nature and report back :D

How do I get epic music too? I like this deck too :D

Thanks for all of the thoughtful comments! I value very much all of your suggestions.

Without further ado, an update!

9/16/2011-

This week's update mainly wraps up the loose ends of last week's decklist. I have replaced the instant Naturalize with Krosan Grip in the deck's sideboard per suggestion of Sam_I_Am (thanks for the great recommendation!), since the latter's Split Second ability may come in handy against scary artifacts/enchantments, as listed in his examples and a few more that I found while conducting further research on this topic online.

I think that I have reached a reasonable consensus in terms of Riptide Replicator 's status. I have decided to replace it in the main deck with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn .

In light of mozerdozer's suggestion (thanks for your thoughts!), I completely agree with his point of view. Helix Pinnacle is suitable for a deck with more copious mana generation capabilities, such as those employing Infinite Mana Combinations. As a result, I have decided to remove the card from the Endgame Considerations List (Maybeboard).

This week's description article will be on Emrakul, the Aeons Torn .

In response to recent developments in the comment section, I'd like to point out that I agree with magicthevlog and hurrdurrherpherp's perspective on Legacy Elves. A rush Legacy Elf deck usually employs a variant of the Elfball combo in order to give the player a chance to sprint ahead of his opponent in card-drawing, monster generation, etc. However, given that, I have come across several excellent Elfball decks proposed by Jimmeh92 (DragonElf combo) and Sam_I_Am (Hybrid Elves). I think that the structure of those decks would do a much better job of employing this combo than that of this deck. I completely agree that a Glimpse of Nature or two would probably fit well in my deck (thanks for the suggestion, hurrdurrherpherp!), but with Slate of Ancestry I am aiming at a more permanent solution towards the deck's potential card-drawing problem. As such, for now I believe that they fit in the deck a tad bit better. However, if there happens to exist other, more economic (but permanent) solutions to the card problem, I would very much appreciate any suggestions you may have to offer.

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As mentioned by Sam_I_Am before, and now magicthevlog, the replacement of Wirewood Lodge with Quirion Ranger indeed seems very attractive. However, the use of Quirion Ranger would probably set back Forest progression a tad bit. In the case of a green deck that already employs Elf-based acceleration, this decision indeed becomes tricky territory. I am not still sure whether the replacement of Forest s with Quirion Ranger would add to the benefit the deck's strategy, or end up slightly hindering the progression of the game instead. Thus, I will give this matter my utmost consideration, but hold on taking immediate action.

Wood Elves and Sylvan Ranger (thanks a lot for the thoughtful suggestion, magicthevlog!) are indeed useful creatures that can be used as staples in Elf decks. However, because of their higher mana costs, I am a little bit uneasy on the effects they would take on the deck's mana curve, especially since the addition of those creatures to the main deck would obligate cutting the slots of cards with lower CMCs.

I recently looked up the rules regarding the flash ability and Aluren . I must admit that I was pretty embarrassed when it was made clear my interpretation of the summoning sickness rule was entirely incorrect. It seems that, according to the rulebook, if the player flashes in a creature on his opponent's turn (during main phase, combat phase, end step, etc), then when it becomes his/her turn, the flashed creature will become unaffected by summoning sickness. I used this, this, this, and this source as my information sources regarding this matter. Therefore, it appears that if I flash in Elves (such as Rhys the Redeemed ) during the end step of my opponent's turn, I will be able to use their tap abilities and attack with them on my immediate turn. As such, it seems that having Aluren around can still present several advantages. This may change come Innistrad, however, since the card Copperhorn Scout instead of Beastmaster Ascension . In fact, I have been looking in to Copperhorn Scout for quite awhile now, but haven't decided on its comparison with the Shrodinger alternative. I will put this matter into much consideration.

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Umbral Mantle (thanks for the great suggestion, magicthevlog!) and Staff of Domination are two very powerful artifacts that have the potential to stimulate Infinite Combos in this deck. However, due to the fact that they hold lesser individual value, I will postpone the cost of deleting existing cards to add them.

I am now very much aware of the risk that this deck takes in not having enchantment/artifact destruction cards (thanks for the warning, hurrdurrherpherp!). As a result, I have made use of the new extra slot, created by the movement of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to the main deck, to increase the count of Krosan Grip s to two. Hopefully, that will do for now, but if concerns regarding this matter should rise further, I will consider replacing cards in the main deck and sideboard with similar artifact/enchantment destruction cards.

Oran-Rief, the Vastwood has been suggested as being possibly too slow for the acceleration strategy that this deck employs. As a result, I have cut down the number of that land from a total of four (sideboard + main deck) to two. Should the need arise, I will consider deleting the copy of the land in the sideboard as well. For now, however, I believe that the land does have its advantages, especially with the creature acceleration approach that this deck utilizes, so I will keep a copy in the sideboard in case the need for the number of Oran-Rief, the Vastwood s in the main deck should rise to two.

Lastly, I would like to point out the replacement of a single forest with Pendelhaven . The addition of this new card does not necessarily merit an article, but it is a useful land to have around, as it poses almost no drawbacks when compared to the basic Forest, and may additionally prove useful for saving the lives of certain weaker Elves on the battlefield.

I will update this deck periodically (weekly or biweekly) until I feel that it has reached its maximum potential. I can see plenty of potential weaknesses in this deck. As I am still relatively new to Magic the Gathering, I would very much appreciate any further suggestions and/or constructive criticism that you may have to offer.

Let me stress something very, very clearly. Now during playtesting, apparently the game looks 'solid' after turn 6. So I'm assuming that means no win until 8 or later. I'm guessing you just don't play legacy or something. It is over turn 3 at the LATEST. Legacy never gets past turn 3. Your deck NEEDS to be able to win on turn 3 if you ever want it to be competitive. Legacy elves MUST have 4 Glimpse of Nature s, 16 lands, and 40 elves. NOTHING else. Please learn this. Legacy is a SET format. No new archetypes open up unless for some idiotic reason Wizards prints a turn one or two combo.

If you didn't spend 50 or so hours making this deck and not wanting it to be competitive, then whatever. But for it to be competitive, it needs to win on turn 3 or quicker.

Hello. So I've been looking at your deck for sometime and I've noticed how much effort you have put into formating your deck description and its nice and interesting; however, this addition of music is just annoying and irksome. I came to check this deck out again today and it seems that your music and the music I listen to do not go together. It also happens to mess up my scroll bar. At this I am kindly requesting that you get rid of this newest addition to your deck page and focus more of your time on your actual deck.

@Solomon The deck is shaping up quite quickly, even in the few days I have been following the discussion. I applaud your initiative!

@mozerdozer You clearly have never played competitive Legacy >_>. Your statements are entirely false.

So you're saying that in your legacy games, the game has routinely not ended by turn 8 or 9? Even some Standard games don't that long. Hell this guy I know wins with a Battle of Wits deck before turn 8.

I also like how apparently by the time he gets Emrakul out the opponent wont even have 6 permanents.

@mozerdozer I'm saying that Legacy does not consist of combo decks battling combo decks and games are not ended on turn 3 one hundred percent of the time as you claim.

Also, mozerdozer doesn't know what he's talking about.

Really, he doesn't. Look at his first couple posts. All of his dogma is newly found

Also, about no new legacy archtypes

Affinity is a somewhat new legacy archtype

Dredge is a newer archtype

Caw-Blade is a very new legacy archtype

There are playable legacy infect decks, with access to Invigorate

Of course you're not going to get a new legacy deck every time a new set comes out, but new archetypes do happen.

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn has protection from all colored spells, not protection from all colors. Once a creature enters the battlefield it is no longer a spell, it is a permanent.

Most legacy infects go with Blazing Shoal for one. That deck can get turn three win against this deck no problem. Turn two Blighted Agent turn 3 Blazing Shoal with Progenitus Bam dead.

Why don't we keep the focus of this discussion on Elves, instead of mozer's warped view of eternal formats?

I'd be more than happy to play against someone using this deck. If you would like to use this deck to play against me, let me know.

And to the user magicthevlog: Don't even act like you're not a huge troll. You have at least two other accounts and the youtube series is terrible.