multimedia says... #2
Hey Melanthios, thanks for the info. Good job on 4-0 was this at FNM? That's a lot of control players, where's Negate when you need it :) What does your version look like?
It really sucks you have to worry about Lich's Mastery at your FNM, this card is the biggest flash in the pan. Heroic Intervention is a fine a card, I don't dislike it, I just feel that boarding in other threats or draw is a more consistent plan for control matchups. Nissa, Bestiary, Tyrant, Vehicles, etc is better than a spell that doesn't do anything unless you already have an established board. Can it be a blowout sure, but more likely it will be a dead card too many times. If you're having success with it more power to you.
Blossoming Defense is how you protect a creature from a removal spell. It allows you to not over commit to the board with creatures because of fear of a board wipe, while still doing damage. Rhonas helps too you don't need to over commit because mana can be used to pump even a single creature making it a threat and Rhonas doesn't die from a board wipe.
In your version are you playing only 8x sources of red: 4x Hub and 4x Crag to play Abrade or more? The main reason I started out with Abrade in the main deck was because of Mardu Vehicles and Heart of Kiran, but I quickly realized that I need Abrade in the early game for this matchup because that's when Heart is a problem. The manabase can't support early game Abrade more like turn four or five Abrade and that's not when I want the card for most matchups. I just don't think the consistency is there to rely on Abrade. Radha helps a lot because her and other creature can make red mana with her ability, but relying on her to cast a card in the deck is not a reliable line of play.
Ballista is not the best in all matchups, but I feel it's a necessity for the main deck because it's another mana sink that can get out of hand very fast with Radha or Marwyn's mana. It's a main deck answer to Planeswalkers. Trample and haste helps too, but Ballista can directly target one. I've also encountered a lot of token decks which Ballista is an allstar in those matchups. If you're however looking for more speed than Ballista is not what you want because without Winding Constrictor it's very slow to get going and is better as a sideboard card for certain matchups like tokens.
One problem with Elves right now are no good two drops. Two drops are what you want for more speed.
Thrashing Brontodon is a fine main deck card that can deal with a Seal Away or Cast Out who can do some damage before you want to sac it. It's a three drop so it can potentially be played turn two thanks to Llanowar.
If Control is a big problem in your FNM meta then more Carnage Tyrant is a fine answer, even main deck. More Vehicles also helps to recover from board wipes. Give Heart of Kiran a playtest? It can add some speed, can't be Sealed because of vigilance and doesn't die to board wipes.
Ghalta is tricky if you include more of it I can see problems with not being able to cast it because of not enough creatures. Can Ghalta give you insane lines of play in this deck? Yea, it can, but this requires having a good number of creatures in your control not something you should count on in control matchups.
April 30, 2018 3:16 a.m.
multimedia says... #3
I've been playing another version of this deck, Radiant Elves. I'm not sure which is better each has strengths and weaknesses. It's now a Grand Warlord Radha vs Shalai, Voice of Plenty battle to see who will reign supreme in this deck...
Radiant Elves is a Selesnya version, the reason for white instead of red is Shalai, Radiant Destiny and Seal Away. Yes, Destiny returns in this version. One big difference in this version compared to Gruul is the manabase. I need more white sources for nonElf cards this means playing Scattered Groves, and more Aether Hub. Both Hub and Groves can conflict with the Llanowar Elves into Steel Leaf Champion turn two or three.
Is playing Shalai worth disrupting this great curve? This is the problem, I'm not sure? Shalai is an amazing card with Elves not only as a mana sink, but she gives them protection from targeted removal. She can also protect me, I can't be targeted when she's in my control; actually incredibly useful and an underrated part of her ability. Shalai's has flying which Elves don't have, this is also very useful.
As a mana sink Shalai is just as good as Rhonas the Indomitable and she benefits from her own ability to put counters on all my creatures, it includes her. Her ability costs three more mana than Rhonas's does, but it also affects all my creatures at once. Rhonas only effects one creature per activation. The difference is Rhonas gives a creature trample which maybe is more useful than giving all creatures a counter?
Radiant Destiny is very good with Marwyn, the Nurturer because of vigilance. Able to attack with Marwyn because she can get very big as well as tapping her to make mana both in the same turn is a powerful combination. Being able to attack with Marwyn with vigilance and then tap her to pump my entire team in combat with Shalai are the kind of interactions that can make white a better color than red.
Destiny gives the Selesnya version a pseudo lord effect something that Gruul can't provide. While Destiny is good with the tribe it's also another three drop. Three drops are overwhelming both versions simply because they're the best cards right now for Elves. A whopping 16x main deck three drops are in the Selesnya version and 13x in the Gruul version. Because of more three drops the Selesnya version needs one more land than the Gruul version, 24x lands compared to 23x.
The Guurl version with Grand Warlord Radha is about speed. I label it as aggro because it can be very fast to do damage. Radha is also an Elf she has more connection with the tribe than Shalia does since she's an Angel. Selesnya version with Shalia is midrange. It's not as explosive as the Gruul version for two main reasons: the manabase is worst and Shalia doesn't have haste or make mana like Radha does. Slowing down game play into midrange instead of aggro only works because of Shalia since she gives all my creatures hexproof. This protection can buy time to set-up and get more Elves into play.
Radha is another mass mana source while also doing damage. Having two mass mana sources, Radha and Marwyn is helpful with mana sinks. Shalai can't make mana like Radha and other attacking creatures can, leaving only Marwyn as the mass mana source in the Selenya version. Selesyna is relying much more on Marwyn than the Gruul version is.
Playing white gives me access to much better removal than mono-green. The Gruul version is labeled as Gruul, but it's really just mono-green playing red only for Radha. I'm only using green removal no red this is a big restriction if removal becomes important; Ancient Animus is the removal spell for Gruul. White has Seal Away which is main deck in the Selesnya version, Cast Out in the sideboard and others with potential like Ixalan's Binding.
Teshar, Ancestor’s Apostle is a white creature who has potential with Elves because it can reanimate Steel Leaf Champion, Rishkar, Peema Renegade or other three, two and one drop Elves even Rhonas. Teshar is in the sideboard for matchups where my Elves are going to die to board wipes or other mass removal. I might not be playing enough legendaries to take advantage of it's reanimation ability, but even if I can reanimate only one Champion I feel this card is worth it.
Everyone please take a look at Radiant Elves and I would love feedback if you think Selesnya is a better color combination then Gruul. Which one, Radha or Shalai do you think is the better card and strategy with Elves?
May 2, 2018 1:58 a.m.
Hexaflexagon says... #4
I think I like Radiant Elves better than this one because of Seal Away and Radiant Destiny. I really like Seal Away because it really punishes aggro decks and stops them from doing their thing. It also combos well with Radiant Destiny as well because you get a permanent.
May 2, 2018 4:27 a.m.
Great list and I love your commentary! Upvote for sure. I wasn't convinced by Marwyn, the Nurturer until I read your thoughts. I've been messing around with a similar RG elves build and I think you should reconsider the kicker theme with Hallar, the Firefletcher. It's quite powerful and incredibly versatile.
The kicker theme makes Elfhame Druid even better at times than Llanowar Elves. Casting a kicked Untamed Kavu on turn 3 is pretty bonkers and Shivan Fire really shines in its versatility. The abundant ramp helps kick Territorial Allosaurus and even Fight with Fire becomes a viable win condition.
My favorite part about this deck is the consistent pressure it generates across all stages of a game: Llanowar Elves + Steel Leaf Champion and Elfhame Druid + Untamed Kavu present an incredibly threatening aggro presence; Marwyn, the Nurturer and Hallar, the Firefletcher accumulate value over several turns; and the abundant kicker spells supplement the aggro while still providing top-deck value in the late-game. Overall one of the most consistent and versatile decks that I've played in quite awhile.
I included several cards that will rotate, but the core list will remain intact come September.
Kickin Ass Midrange (rotation proof)
Standard*
SCORE: 1 | 90 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
May 2, 2018 3:29 p.m.
pinkgradient says... #6
I'm interested in how this deck ramps into 12/12's, but what bothers me is that you have 3x Grand Warlord Radha and 1x Hallar, the Firefletcher. 10 red land sources and then 4x Servant of the Conduit dedicated to playing 4 cards with red cost. why not just make this a mono green deck? Hallar is just a 3/3 with trample because this deck has zero kickers (kickers are to expensive anyways). Radha is an interesting card but is only effective if you have many attacking creatures which you don't you have mana elfs, consider hordeling outburst if you want to splash red and actually make use of that ability but you're gonna need more red cards to make it worth half the land in the deck being red.
May 5, 2018 3:37 p.m.
I do not want to waste your time nor to be a nuisance...
Could I humbly ask for some of your input/help regarding my new r/g aggro deck ?It is called Fire and Nature - Chandra and Nissa in Dominaria
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fire-and-nature-chandra-and-nissa-in-dominaria/?cb=1525553693
May 5, 2018 5:10 p.m.
multimedia says... #8
Hexaflexagon, thanks for the input. Still not completely sold on white. Shalai does have a huge advantage of protecting me from Settle the Wreckage, it can't be cast targeting me. Azorius Control and Flash is a very popular deck right now and will continue to be as the perfect build is discovered. If Settle starts to dominate Standard then Shalai looks like a great option to combat it.
May 6, 2018 1:44 a.m.
multimedia says... #9
Acute19, thanks for the upvote, thoughts and props :) Hallar, the Firefletcher is a nice Elf because of trample even without playing kicker. I can see it taking Rishkar, Peema Renegade's place as a three drop when Rishkar rotates. I really like the interaction with Ancient Animus and Hallar is a fine turn two three drop play with help from Llanowar and Territory.
I don't see any problem including cards that will rotate in Sept. after all we don't know anything about Core Set 2019(M19) other than Bolas and Tezzeret are returning. It's possible that Elves are in the set. Very hard to build around post rotation without knowing what's in M19. Sets in Kaladesh and Amonhket will still be legal in Standard with M19, they only rotate out when the currently unknown Fall set enters Standard.
I'm playing kicker with Hallar in the budget version of this deck, Budget Elves of Dominaria. I very much like Gift of Growth as a four drop kicked spell that's good with Hallar and Marwyn. In my budget version kicker is the secondary strategy. Unfortunately, that's the problem with kicker and Hallar, kicker costs too much mana to be a main strategy. It's more useful as a secondary strategy to give some reach. Those lines of play you mentioned seem very good, but is turn three kicked Untamed Kavu better than turn three Radha? Not sure about that and Radha is an Elf. If you're going tribal that matters.
Your version looks good, I'll take a look at it and leave a comment. Fight with Fire is a good removal spell right now and I foresee it being an even better removal spell post rotation because most Vehicles other than Weatherlight will rotate. Can you play Fight and Steel Leaf Champion together? I have been unsuccessful in doing this, hurting the consistency of turn one Llanowar into turn two Champion or turn three Champion is not worth playing more red.
May 6, 2018 1:46 a.m.
multimedia says... #10
pinkgradient, welcome to TappedOut, thanks for taking a look here. I bit of advice when you comment on decks try not to contradict yourself in advice you give :) You first suggest not to play red because of only 10x sources and then suggest to add a double red card Hordeling Outburst which is not even Standard legal or an Elf. Do you see the problem? Plus you don't splash red for a double red card. Red needs to be a dominate color in a manabase playing Outburst because it's double red and a three drop.
I don't want to discourage you from commenting on decks it's how you learn, but understand you will get blasted by other users here with advice like this. Do a little research before you comment... Especially don't suggest to add cards that are not legal in the format of the deck your commenting on.
You're right about one point, mono-green would be better than Gruul, but look closer this is a mono-green deck. Only Grand Warlord Radha and Hallar are red and since they're Elves Unclaimed Territory works with them. Territory also works with Steel Leaf Champion and Llanowar Elves this is the reason that Territory and red are here and can be an options.
Hallar doesn't need kicker to be a good Elf, he's however right now is a flex spot in this deck, he can be cut. Not playing him because of kicker the reason I'm playing him is trample and a 3/3 for three which are fine stats for a three drop Elf who can be potentially played turn two. I'm using Ancient Animus as the green removal spell and Hallar is quite good with it because he's a legendary.
Radha brings a powerlevel with Champion, Rhonas and Ghalta that mono-green Elves can't provide that's the reason I'm playing her and Territory. She's worth having a semi less consistent manabase with Crags and Territories. If she wasn't I wouldn't be playing her.
May 6, 2018 1:50 a.m.
multimedia says... #11
Nylea171, you're not wasting my time or being a nuisance :) I'll take a look at your deck and leave some advice. In the future, the proper way to ask for direct help from someone here is at their user page, multimedia. You can properly link your deck in a comment with either of these:
[[deck:fire-and-nature-chandra-and-nissa-in-dominaria/]]
or
[[deck-large:fire-and-nature-chandra-and-nissa-in-dominaria/]]
Fire and Nature - Chandra and Nissa in Dominaria
Fire and Nature - Chandra and Nissa in Dominaria
Standard
SCORE: 1 | 2 COMMENTS | 24 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
May 6, 2018 1:56 a.m.
I haven't had much trouble playing Fight with Fire and Shivan Fire together with Steel Leaf Champion because Elfhame Druid provides another green mana source, which allows for four mountains.
May 6, 2018 2:04 p.m.
multimedia says... #13
Made some changes recently.
Added 2x Heart of Kiran main deck and added a second Nissa, Vital Force to the sideboard. To make room I cut 1x Walking Ballista and 1x Ancient Animus for Heart and 1x Carnage Tyrant for Nissa. These changes are because of a large presence of control right now in Standard especially Azorius Control.
Heart is very good in control matchups. It's a two drop, it can potentially get around a counterspell and Essence Scatter can't counter it. Seal Away and Fumigate can't stop it. Can't seal Heart because of vigilance, it doesn't have to tap to attack. Heart is another legendary creature that can take advantage of Animus. I need another two drop and Heart fills this need.
In Control matchups Nissa is a better card in this deck than Tyrant because Tyrant dies to Fumigate. Can't be countered is nice with Tyrant, but I have no way to stop a Fumigate, so it misses the cut for now. I'm expecting to see Fumigate because of all the creatures I'm playing, Nissa is resilient to Fumigate. All cards I board in for Azorius Control matchup except Brontodon are Fumigate proof: Nissa, Bestiary and Vehicles.
Settle the Wreckage is hard to play against, but I'm not ready to switch to Radiant Elves yet playing white for Shalai, Voice of Plenty. This option is becoming stronger each day though.
Note: Walking Ballista is now a $20 card :(
May 8, 2018 7:29 a.m.
kusanagi88 says... #14
what about a Heroic Intervention, 1 and a green makes your permanents hexproof and indestructible till end of turn
May 10, 2018 5:25 p.m.
multimedia says... #16
Heroic Intervention is a fine sideboard card, but for this deck I would rather sideboard in threats for matchups where Intervention would be used such as Control. Intervention has the annoying problem with only protecting my creatures from Fumigate and not Settle the Wreckage because I don't get hexproof. In fact it doesn't do anything at all when I'm facing a Settle. I feel that boarding in a card that's useless to the number one way my opponent can stop my army in a matchup is not a good idea.
There isn't a card in green that can be used to combat both Fumigate and Settle with creatures. Need a green spell or creature that can give me hexproof as well as all my creatures indestructible :)
This is a reason that I'm turning to cards that can be mostly immune to both Fumigate and Settle for the matchup. Nissa, Vital Force, Lifecrafter's Bestiary and Vehicles. Out of these options only Vehicles are not immune to Settle, all of them are immune to Fumigate.
May 13, 2018 4:40 a.m.
@multimedia Heroic Intervention protects against Seal Away, Cast Out, and Fatal Push too. Settle the Wreckage is just something everyone has to play around.
May 13, 2018 8:07 p.m.
I took a different version of this out to FNM, still mono-green, and went 4-0. The deck went away from Elves, and was more towards the stompy aspect of things.
May 14, 2018 4:27 a.m.
@multimediaServant of the Conduit is by far one of my favorite cards in Kaladesh, but what is the reason for using this when you already have so many mana producers and you can put in something else like removal?
May 16, 2018 3:07 a.m.
multimedia says... #20
aqKetoz, thanks for the upvote.
Servant of the Conduit is an Elf. In fact he's the best two drop Elf. This is tribal Elves that's the reason I'm playing him. Turn three Grand Warlord Radha is pretty good and Servant can make red mana for Radha which is very helpful.
Elves in Standard make mana, that's strongest characteristic of the tribe right now. Especially because of Marwyn, the Nurturer and her mana ability one reason to be tribal Elves. Other than Steel Leaf Champion expect most other Elves here to be mana producers.
This a mono green deck, splashing red only for Radha because of Unclaimed Territory. Only green puts a limit on removal options; there's not a lot to choose for. Ancient Animus is the current two drop removal spell. Is it ideal? Nope, but it's what we have to work with in green and I'm actually quite pleased with it. Most mono green decks right now in Standard are not even playing main deck removal, only 4x Blossoming Defense as pseudo creature removal in combat and protection.
I would like to put red removal in this deck, I tried this, but the manabase doesn't work with more red. More red with Sheltered Thicket, Mountain even more Aether Hub disrupts Llanowar Elves and Steel Leaf Champion too much. There's a fine line here with the manabase being able to play these two Elves together and red.
May 16, 2018 4:55 a.m. Edited.
multimedia says... #22
At today's Announcement Day, Wizards announced that we are returning to Ravnica for three sets. The Fall October set: Guilds of Ravnica, the Spring January 2019 set: Ravnica Allegiance and the Summer or Fall 2019 set is unknown. Yes three sets of Ravnica in a row.
Here's the official Announcement Day video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_qvw0JrswA.
If you can't make it through watching and listening to the whole video because your face has sunken into your head from all the cringing, I completely understand. I had to fast forward through many parts of the 10 minute video...
Dawn is the highlight of the entire thing. Dawn talks about the new art direction for Ravnica, most importantly how the creatures in each guild are going to look, what characteristics of the clothing says about creatures in each guild.
Here's Golgari and you'll notice he's an Elf, an Elf Warrior. Elves are already confirmed to be part of the Ravnica sets! This is exciting early news. Elves are returning to Golgari, the best color combination for the tribe.
More Golgari and more Elves. Elf Shamans are also part of the guild. The art direction for Golgari is described as being about the cycle of life, death and the rebirth. Mushrooms and fungi represent these concepts. They appear to be growing on and part of the armor and clothing of the Elves. Very interesting mushroom dresses for the women Elves the art could be fantastic for these.
In Dominaria Fungi and Saprolings are Golgari this could be a nice transition into and possible pairing of these two tribes.
More Elves in the concept art for Simic. Simic's art direction is described as the guild of bio engineers, lab tech and hybrid creations. Elves are part of the Supersoliders section of the guild.
I really like the idea of more hybrid Elves like Coiling Oracle and Gaea's Skyfolk kind of wish this idea was expanded on with other guilds. Looking at this concept art it appears that only the armor and clothing of the Elves is hybrid. I hope this isn't the case and the actual body of an Elf is a hybrid of two or more different creatures. This is much more interesting then just changing the armor or clothing.
Next up for Standard Magic is the Core Set 2019(M19). We know more about the Ravnica October set than July M19, haha. Something is kind of wrong, out of whack, with the these announcements...
May 18, 2018 7:34 p.m.
I have some mad respect for the fact that you've been able to consistently update your deck. Constant improvement, constant new cards and everchanging gameplans. I do love it, actually quite inspiring. Tell me, have there been times that you've thought elves wasn't good at some point?
Otherwise, cool deck, inspiring amounts of work. +1 from me.
May 28, 2018 7:22 a.m.
multimedia says... #24
Hey Annexus, thank you for the kind words and the upvote :)
Elves haven't been good in Standard since Shaman of the Pack and Collected Company rotated many sets ago. I've accepted this and since then just made this deck the most fun it can be playing Elves that are in Standard. I try to make this deck competitive, hopefully this reflects in my deck building, test it against the tier one decks of Standard and adapt sideboards to combat the best decks. Do I win? Yes, but I also lose a lot. Winning all the time is not really the point of this deck, it's great when it happens, but having fun playing is more important to me.
Each new set brings something new, usually a new version of this deck which hopefully keeps the content here fresh and interesting. Because there's not a defined strategy to play with Elves in Standard since Shaman rotated this helps a lot with being able to discover new strategies and directions to play with Elves.
May 29, 2018 4:24 a.m.
multimedia says... #25
Made a few changes recently I've added more Elves. Before doing this I didn't feel like I was playing an Elf tribal deck, but a deck that only had Elves. I've added 3x Narnam Renegade another one drop Elf to better pump up Marwyn, the Nurturer. Marwyn has also been increased to a 4 of this is done to give me the best opportunity to play her turn two with help from Llanowar Elves. This deck is very much now centering on Marwyn as she's the payoff for being Elf tribal.
For a while in the beginning of playtesting with cards from Dominaria I played 4x Adventurous Impulse. I found Impulse to be great because creature was the most represented card type and it could also find a red source land for Grand Warlord Radha. I evidently cut Impulse to play Ancient Animus and Vehicles main deck. Well, I've added 4x Impulse again, it's too good at finding Elves or a mana sink which is even more important now that I'm putting more emphasis on Marwyn then before. Animus and the main deck Vehicle strategy has been cut. Aethersphere Harvester is still here in the sideboard. The reason I've done this is to make more Elf tribal including more Elves and/or ways to get Elves into my hand.
The sideboard has changed. Walking Ballista has been moved from the main deck to the sideboard. I still like Ballista it's a great mana sink for Marwyn's or Radha's mana, but Ballista has a huge target on it's head right now in Standard Abrade is everywhere because red is so good right now. Just about every deck that can afford it is playing 2x to 4x Ballista main deck, the card is pretty oppressive.
I haven't found a need for it main deck, but in some nonred matchups it's really good, hence why it's now in the sideboard. I was using a Vehicle strategy to fight control, but I've cut that instead going with Lifecrafter's Bestiary and Nissa, Vital Force as my plan for Control. While the Vehicle strategy was fine it's not safe from Settle the Wreckage where as both Bestiary and Nissa are.
With the addition of Narnam turn three Ghalta, Primal Hunger is easier to do with Marwyn with help from Blossoming Defense. This gives me other than Steel Leaf Champion and Rhonas the Indomitable more ways to get Ghalta into play faster. One thing I can say is this is a very good deck for Ghalta because of the interaction with Marwyn and Defense.
We still know nothing official other than Bolas and Tezzeret are back about M19, the new Core Set, releasing in July. I'm eagerly waiting for more information. Some cards have leaked; if interested view them at MythicSpoiler http://mythicspoiler.com/m19/index.html.
multimedia says... #1
Results of the first MTGO PTQ with Dominaria have been posted: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/standard-ptq-2018-04-29
The results are surprising except that Lyra Dawnbringer dominates the standings including being in the first place Selesnya deck. Benalish Marshal, Steel Leaf Champion and Goblin Chainwhirler creatures of the cycle of mono colored three drops are overwhelmingly represented at this PTQ especially Marshal and Champion. Selesnya, Orzhov (not Mono-White), Mono Green, Mono Red and Azorius are the stand out decks. White is the clear winner as most played color.
Karn, Scion of Urza is in a lot of decks including as a 4 of or 3 of in some, but he's not in as many decks as I expected him to be. I expected Azorius Flash to win, this deck is pretty amazing with Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage as an engine and Lyra, Teferi and History as finishers. There's several versions of this deck in the standings, but it looks like the power of green creatures is too great, too fast for Control.
Llanowar Elves into Steel Leaf Champion is formidable and it shows by these results. It makes sense that white is the most played color because Seal Away is a great way to deal with turn two Champion that can also deal with Lyra. Green decks are main decking Thrashing Brontodon which also makes sense as this is a great way to combat Seal and History. Cast Down doesn't make the cut I guess, Orzhov isn't even playing it, because it can't kill Lyra. It's however a great answer to Champion and Marshal.
Surprising only four God-Pharaoh's Gift decks and no copies of The Scarab God at all in the standings? Really quite amazing seeing as how Scarab was before Dominaria one of the top played, most dominate creatures. In fact other than Orzhov which black is just a splash for Scrapheap Scrounger, Fatal Push, Duress and a few Golgari decks, black didn't do very well with only two copies of Vraska's Contempt in all of the standings... Azorius with Teferi and Lyra as the five drops have replaced Dimir with Scarab as the Control deck of choice. These results show that energy is finally being pushed out of Standard?
April 30, 2018 1:57 a.m.