THUNEMEISTER says... #3
Call the Gatewatch and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets might be good
August 15, 2016 3:01 a.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #4
Thanks for the suggestions. I already tested Call the Gatewatch in a 4c Superfriends list I ran before SOI and it was very underwhelming. As far as beign able to tutor, I might try to fit in Dark Petition. As a one or 2 of, it works very well I feel and allows to also get to your SB tech if needed.
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets is something I am still considering myself. I am also considering Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip as well.
One thin for sure is that this deck needs card draw badly, it's something I completely overlooked when I thre it together before work.
August 15, 2016 3:10 a.m.
Oath of Jace and Oath of Gideon would both work really well in this deck, with Jace getting you that extra card draw and letting you scry for one or two each urn, while Gideon gets you some chump blockers and makes your planes walkers more durable. Regardless, your initial list seems solid to me and deserves the +1.
August 15, 2016 12:36 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #6
Appreciate the upvote and the suggestions!
In this build I really dont see a place for Oath of Gideon. Control is a very reactive playstile, and token generation only works to deter attacks if it's efficient or recurrable, really wish Lingering Souls was around. Unfortunately the Oath is a one shot thing and the extra loyalty never was game changing even when I ran it in my old 4 color version.
Oath of Jace on the other hand, is pretty decent, but I would only run it if I decide to run baby Jace as well so I can reuse whatever gets pitched, otherwise something like Painful Truths would probably be better in the deck as draw spells go.
August 15, 2016 12:44 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #7
Removed an Anguished Unmaking and two copies of Ultimate Price from the main to make room for 3 copies of Painful Truths. Really needed the card draw, still looking for some better draw if there is any, and I am also thinking of cutting Narset to make space for Kalitas mainboard, as that would free up two slots in the side for things like Infinite Obliteration.
August 15, 2016 2:45 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #8
The only Standard deck I've seen that I like outside of the Innistrad block and Gatecrash.
August 15, 2016 3:05 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #9
Thanks for the upvote! I will take the compliment too :)
It is still a very rough draft of what the deck will probably end up being, but I am not going to stray from the walker control build.
August 15, 2016 3:13 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #10
Good I love Superfriends, show them what real walkers can do :)
August 15, 2016 3:31 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #11
Wondering if Succumb to Temptation is better than Painful Truths. I lose the ability to draw a third card, but at the same time the instant speed gives me flexibility to keep mana open instead of tapping on my turn.
Thoughts?
Still feel I lack card draw, and still thinking of cutting Narset, she has been too hit or miss even in other decks that I tried her in, and always ended up getting side boarded. Only time she was nice was against control matchups where she could stick around longer.
August 16, 2016 5:36 a.m.
Shane.Allen says... #12
I would say yes sideboard Narset and I have to agree the instant speed is more useful, so you can get cards just when you need them go with Succumb to Temptation.
August 16, 2016 5:54 a.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #14
I know the deck looks like trash at the moment, but I actually want to shape it to at least be somewhat competitive for FNM. That beign said I feel like using cards like Call the Gatewatch, or Deploy the Gatewatch, simply go against that.
Those cards, the later in particular, are just way too gimmicky. I know if I get 2 walkers with it then it's going to put me in well ahead; however, If I miss I just spent 6 mana to do nothing at sorcery speed and that's something I am not willing to use up slots for.
In the offchance that I plan on putting in something along the lines of Call or Deploy, I would much rather run Dark Petition instead.
That beign said I do appreciate the suggestion.
August 16, 2016 8:45 a.m. Edited.
Planar Outburst should be in the 75 - IMO at least 2. I also think Negate is way better for the mainboard than Dispel is.
August 17, 2016 12:37 a.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #16
Appreciate the suggestions. I was actually thinking of cutting one Languish in the main for a copy of Planar Outburst, as far as putting two I am not 100% sure it would be needed. I understand Negate is a catch all answer, which is why I am assuming you are saying to mainboard it over Dispel, but to me it's just not as efficient. With how many Bant Company decks are at my LGS, having a 1 cmc answer to Collected Company is very nice. There are moments where Negate comes in more handy, hence why it's still in the 75, but I feel like Dispel gets the job done just the same for the most part. Hell, there are so many Bant Company decks at my LGS that I even had Hallowed Moonlight in the MB for the first draft of the deck.
Anyways, I will definitely keep the idea of using a second Planar Outburst in mind!
August 17, 2016 1:19 a.m.
Umbreomancer says... #17
If you want tips on Esper Superfriends, my Esper Control standard deck is fairly superfriendish if you want to check it out.
My main question is, why did you cut Narset completely? Since you're running absolutely zero creatures, her card draw and ability to give things rebound (things like Anticipate or Transgress the Mind) is crazy powerful. All three Oaths in Esper colors (Oath of Gideon and Oath of Jace, as people have already said, but Oath of Liliana is also really good) should have at least one copy of, imo. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets is good, as is Vryn's prodigy (although that one is admittedly rotating out soon).
Still, love the list! Definitely getting +1 from me.
August 17, 2016 4:08 p.m.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip seems great here, but overall, you really need more creatures. With the way this runs, Lili's second ability is totally useless. i would actually even just cut her for some combo of Jace's.
August 17, 2016 7:05 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #19
I will definitely check out your deck, maybe I'll get some pointers from it.
I cut Narset Transcendent because I never had good luck with her. I also had to narrow down the amount of walkers I had in the deck, 11 felt like an overkill. If I can sneak her in, maybe in the side I might actually give her another shot, but I feel like the other walkers are stronger. Oath of Gideon is just something I didn't like, it worked in a 4-color take I made before SOI because it was a much more aggressive beat-down superfriends deck, but in a heavy control shell I don't feel like it holds it's weight. Oath of Jace is something I mentioned to another user that I might consider, but would only run if I also ran Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip so I can actually use what I might pitch. Oath of Liliana is something I completely forgot about to be hones, and while I do think it's pretty alright, I would really only run it for the Edict effect as I probably won't be getting that many zombies out of it, and if I am using it for that, then I feel like To the Slaughter is a better alternative since it would do the same thing but at instant speed. I will add Oath of Jace to the maybe board.
You are correct, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip does seem great here and that's why I have been considering him heavily. I have to, however, disagree on needing more creatures. This is aimed to be a creatureless control deck (silly me forgot to stick the "creatureless" tag on there, but that's fixed now). If I was to add in more creatures I would probably cut all the walkers, leaving maybe just Lili and Sorin, and put in things like Reflector Mage, and maybe that's a much better way to build Esper Control right now, but that's not the route I want to go. Lili's +1 is good against most creatures in the format as it just turns them into 0/X, and even thought this isn't a huge reason to play her, she does make my Grasp of Darkness "bigger". Lili's -7 is also why she is here, as that would be one of the main win conditions of the deck. Cutting her simply because I can't really use her -2, other than for when Kalitas comes in, seems like a mistake to me.
I appreciate both of your guy's suggestion, you gave me some good feedback. I still need to test the deck, and as soon I get a chance I will test it both as is and with the suggestions that were offered by both of you and it could very well turn out that I was completely wrong, but only testing can tell that. Once again, thanks! :)
August 17, 2016 11:05 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #20
Updates and changes explained in both the description and update.
August 26, 2016 3:04 p.m.
TEGHabibird says... #21
Coax in the MB just to get emrakul from the SB is not worth it. You might as well have that copy of emrakul in the MB coax slot, then free up 1 (or 2 if you also remove fathom feeder) SB slots
August 30, 2016 6:48 a.m.
TEGHabibird says... #22
your bant coco matchup could be improved with 2 Hallowed Moonlight in the board if you take out the 2 eldrazi
August 30, 2016 7:27 a.m.
The double down on coax I can see is DIS. Getting Emrakul back is pretty clutch.
August 30, 2016 3:53 p.m.
ComputerizedMTG says... #24
Now I may not be SHaheen Sorani, but I am willing to bet he designed this deck with one Emrakul, the Promised End in the main and one in the side, to avoid getting one of the win conditions of the deck being completely blown out by side tech like Infinite Obliteration. Coax, is also there to get Emrakul back IF he gets exiled too, which there are a few cards in standard that do so. Not only that, but as maddoxmtg, being able to get Emrakul back from exile is "pretty clutch".
Hallowed Moonlight is a great suggestion, and you are correct in that it would help against Bant. The first iteration of the deck had two copies in the side. I might end up getting rid of Fathom Feeder to make room for a copy of Hallowed Moonlight. I honestly don't see a match up where I would think to myself "I really hope I can grab Fathom Feeder with my Coax or I lose". I guess it might be decent against control? Not sure, I know I can live without it and have been wanting to get rid of it. I don't want to add "too many" answers to CoCo, simply because I already have some cards that can deal with it. Bant CoCo is hard for me even when they don't cast a Company, so not sure I want to run too many answers specific to just Collected Company.
August 30, 2016 6:40 p.m.
TEGHabibird says... #25
13/07/2016 In a casual game, a card you choose from outside the game comes from your personal collection. In a tournament event, a card you choose from outside the game must come from your sideboard.
According to the ruling for coax, you cant nab things from exile. Even though its exiled, it still constitutes a zone within the current game.
Additionally, if your opponent plays a bad sb card to get your 2 copies of emrakul, good for them. You have other wincons and theyve diluted their deck with a bad card. Against anyone not playing IO, drawing coax is the same as drawing emrakul except youve paid 3 extra mana for it.
ComputerizedMTG says... #1
Just as an FYI, this is a starting list I threw together 30 mins before work, it obviously needs a lot of rework and help before I will be happy with it it, but this is a start. I will try to shape it up more when I come back from work!
August 14, 2016 11 p.m.