I'm consider making this deck sometime as I really like it, please keep me updated on how the deck does for you at Fnm if you can.

As of currently I'm only missing 23/75 of the cards for it if I was to build it. That unfortunately includes the 2 Liliana, the Last Hopes, 1 of the Kalitas, Traitor of Ghets although I plan on getting a second of this card soon, a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, 1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis although I know who I could get a second from I think, then it's just lands I need like Sunken Hollow and Shambling Vent which I only have 1 of.

Although I opened a Sword of Feast and Famine masterpiece which I'm likely selling to get some modern stuff, and perhaps with what I have left over after buying some cards for my in progress infect deck,I could buy the rest of the lands I would need for this as a start.

Any idea what I could use in place of the Liliana, the Last Hopes temporarily if I was to make this deck? I was thinking since I own a Gideon that would do for 1 of the cards

Delta-117

I would say just adding some more removal in would be a good starting point. Ruinous Path or even a white gearhulk if you are missing a few of the walkers.

Delta-117

Glad you like the deck! Unfortunately lately I have had to work a good chunk of Friday nights, but normally when I attend FNM I do post my result with a short description of each match as an update.

What maddoxmtg works perfectly fine. You really don't need rely on planeswalkers as much as I do. This is a superfriends style deck so I jam packed it of walkers, but the beautiful thing of Esper is that it's a relatively flexible deck. You can easily replace the more niche walkers and run more removal and Gearhulks, or other wincons, and it should work just fine. I use the walkers as repeatable card advantage/removal/wincons, so just make sure you introduce those in their place. You could honestly run with just Dovin/Jace (up to preference/meta), Ob Nix, and Sorin and you would be fine. Only reason I am running GIdeon in to punch through mid range decks, so you could always even replace him with more answers to mid range decks.

Control decks are flexible, they have to be to adapt their answers to the meta, so just make sure you have efficient card advantage, removal, and win cons and you will be fine.

I must say, tried this deck and my BW deck against those Boros aggro deck, great. I think control is back in kaladesh

NinjaGunung

That's what I like to hear! Especially because I pretty much strictly play control hehe.

The_Riddlebox Control maniac ahahhaha

Wow, very detailed description I like it.:)

yy20

Thanks :)

What about running Spell Shrivel instead of Negate? Only difference is that It would be one more mana but it could counter a lot more things and then have negates in sideboard for the control vs control matchup. And if so, what would you do to include 4 in the main because I feel like counters and Grasp of Darkness are a four of.

MattN7498

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I don't like any of the current counters in standard, I think they are all bad; that said, if I was to run one of the 3 cmc counters I would run Void Shatter over Spell Shrivel. They are the same cmc, and they both exile as well, with the only difference being that Shrivel give the opponent a chance to play the spell. The reason I main boarded Negate is because it hits everything that my removal doesn't hit, more importantly it hits vehicles, planes walkers, and removal towards my own planes walkers. I MIGHT consider running something like Shatter in the main if Negate ends up being bad.

I am aware that obviously the other 3 cmc counters hit what Negate does and more, but there is such a big difference between a 2 cmc counter and a 3 cmc counter. I was spoiled by Modern I guess; man I miss Silumgar's Scorn when Esper Dragons was a thing. Ok, I am starting to go off on a tangent. In short, I am aware I am taking a risk by main boarding Negate, and will likely replace it if need be.

Anyways, to answer your question you could easily cut out Declaration in Stone to make room for the 4th counter, but I think I am going to be fine with 3. Depending on preference you could also cut both Anticipate, if you want to leave in Declaration, and just add the 4th counter and another Glimmer of Genius.

Negate is going to be amazing along with Ceremonious Rejection being one of the best for the top deck to beat in vehicles.

Great deck! Very educational for my esper deck. Mine is a different (more budget :) ) take on esper control, maybe you would be interested to check it out and give me your input! Torrential Deep-Fiend

Shufflefist

Glad you like the deck.

Sure, as soon as I get off work I'll take a look at it.

The_Riddlebox between Murder and Skywhaler's Shot, and Immolating Glare and Grasp of Darkness, which would you choose?

@The_Riddlebox

I've opted to skip the Liliana, the Last Hopes mostly because they are costly, but just to try something slightly different from your build. Additionally, I am thinking about cutting the 4th Fumigate from the sideboard, mostly because I find that the sorcery speed removal is slow, but that there might be a better option. I was thinking about replacing it with a Cataclysmic Gearhulk or two, as that gives me an option to clear an ever growing field of vehicles. I know that the white gearhulks are less popular, but I think my reasoning on side boarding them is sound.

Additionally, I find that the one of Summary Dismissal has marginal use. Don't get me wrong, I understand that it can clear an entire stack of spells and abilities, however, I feel like a singleton listing, without a way to tutor it, isn't the best way to fill that slot. Maybe I am missing something, or you have it there for a strategy that I haven't considered. As I said, I see the value, but not as a singleton listing, without a way to tutor it when you need it.

I have also considered adding a copy or two of Part the Waterveil. I feel like this could be a very powerful way to close out the game. I know it is costly at 6 mana, but I rarely have trouble getting to the 6 mana I need. I don't know if any of these suggestions will be helpful, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

TheGodofNight

Yeah, Liliana is definitely not needed in the deck. She is definitely strong, and in slower match-ups her ult simply takes over the game if you get it off; but you can live without her. I am actually going to remove the 4th Fumigate myself, but I am going to use Descend upon the Sinful in it's place instead; I might try to squeeze in a second copy either in the sideboard or instead of a third Fumigate. I get what you mean about sorcery speed removal being too slow right now, but board wipes are the exception. As a control deck you want to be able to clear the field, and relying on only single target removal isn't great as there will be situation where there are too many creatures on the board for you to remove. Ideally you want to kill off one or two creature a turn, if you need to do more than that with single target removal you are starting to be in trouble as the control player. The life gain from Fumigate is also very relevant against decks that go wide, and even gaining 3-5 points of life after clearing a field is still great. I don't like Cataclysmic Gearhulk in a control deck, especially not one that wants to have more than one planes walker out at a time. Not only is giving your opponent a choice bad, but in most cases after you drop the Gearhulk you will set yourself behind compared to them. I don't want to drop a Gearhulk and force myself to sac one or two planes-walkers, the deck sort of relies on them to win. The white Gearhulk is also especially bad against anything other than token decks or decks that flood the board anyways, so I would rather just flat out wipe the field at that point. I personally feel the white Gearhulk is good in mid-range decks that want to get rid of multiple threats but at the same time they don't want to clear their own board; however, in control we want to wipe the field and we want to be in control, without letting our opponent make choices.

Summary Dismissal is literally there against Emrakul, the Promised End, and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. I don't care about an entire stack of spells, and will never use it as a counter, it is literally there to get brought in against the big titans, since normally by the time they play it I can draw into it most times. Even ramp decks, and Delirium decks, unless they get perfect hands I normally draw into Dismissal before they cast the big Eldrazi. I do want to try to fit in a second copy, obviously to up the chance of drawing into it and/or use it multiple times, but ideally you don't cast it unless you are facing an Emrakul or Ulamog. It's also worth to note it helps against World Breaker, Distended Mindbender, and Elder Deep-Fiend as well if you really need it.

I only like Part the Waterveil in combo strategies or Turbo-Fog style decks. In a control deck it surely CAN help, but I would much rather throw down something that WILL win me the game instead of something that MIGHT win me the game. In combo strategies it assures the win as you set up your combo, and in Turbo-Fog decks it works as an expensive fog that leaves a body behind AND let's you untap and pass; but yeah, as stated, I don't like it in a control deck. Might work, maybe, but I think we have better cards available. Also to consider, that the more sorceries you start putting in the deck the less valuable Torrential Gearhulk becomes, and he is VERY good so far so you want him to be good.

@The_Riddlebox

I've read over your reply, and you make some salient points with regards to your deck design. From the sounds of it, your Meta is very PT influenced, while my Meta is very "homebrew" influenced. To clarify, I'm not suggesting that you change your deck as much as I am trying to understand some of your design choices.

You make some excellent points with regard to the Cataclysmic Gearhulk. I have a Meta laden with vehicle decks. Some of them are very good, but I really don't have a mass vehicle wipe plan in place. I am keeping my fingers crossed for an instant speed board wipe for Aether Revolt, but for now, all I have to work with is what is printed. Do you have contingency for a vehicle heavy strategy (aside from spot removal and singular counter)?

As to Summary Dismissal, I guess this is a Meta thing. My meta doesn't see a lot of decks running those things, so for me, it is a bit of a dead sideboard card. Playing at different venues, I could see why I would want to keep it, and even up it to 2 copies. Thanks for clarifying that.

I appreciate your insight on Part the Waterveil as well. You've given me a lot to work with. Thank you.

Part the Waterveil I think would be best used alongside Metallurgic Summonings, TheGodofNight. I might actually try to make a deck around the enchantment with cards like Nissa's Renewal and Glimmer of Genius, as why not when I have 4x Metallurgic Summonings?

TheGodofNight

Bingo! My meta is heavily influenced by tournaments as they happen. I don't want to say it's a cut-throat envoirament but quite a good chunk of players go to SCG toyrneys, Grand Prixs, and PTs. We get a lot of new playera every so often and there are always at least 2 people trying the oddball deck, but most strictly stick to what the leading meta decks are.

I honestly don't think it we arw going to see a mass removal against vehicles, if WoTC was going to print it they would have done so in Kaladesh, and in Esper colors we wont see any mass removal at Instant speed unless it's a bounce effect. Honestly, spot removal seems to work fine for vehicles simply because you can board wipe and hit all the things they can crew the vehicles with.

Yeah Summary Dismissal is strictly meta dependant. No reason to run it at all if people don't play Emrakul and the such at your LGS.

I am always enjoy talking about magic and sharing my views on decks or cards, even better if it helps other in some way or another :)

@The_Riddlebox

All in all, I appreciate the feedback. My meta is newly formed (a shop opened up less than 10 minutes away), so we don't have a lot of net decking folks as of yet, so I get to see some refreshing builds and very creative decks. Not to tout my own horn and sound egotistical, but I am one of the more skilled players at my Meta and I don't have budget concerns when it comes to deck building. Thankfully, I am able to support my magic habit/addiction with ease.

Depending on the success of vehicles, and whether or not it dominates the field, WOTC may add in some very specific vehicle-based removal or adverse effects, in the hopes of diversifying the playing field more. Personally, I have always enjoyed a slightly more aggressive standard format, because non-aggro decks (thee ones I enjoy playing) require more thought and skill to play (I'm sure that offends some aggro players).

Well, thanks again for your insights. I enjoy this back and forth as the person I normally deck-craft and theory-craft with moved away. So thanks again!

The_Riddlebox mate, so how is this deck? have you tried it at FNM? Cause Almost all of the cards in this deck I already have except those gearhulks and Dovin... not sure on using my BW Control or moving to Esper for my GP next week

NinjaGunung

This deck is ok. Unfortunately I haven't gotten that many chances to test it out because of work. I work graveyard so if I get pulled in a 6th day I can't attend FNM. I have only attended one since Kaladesh. If you want to built a competitive deck I would opt out for Grixis or Jeskai if you want a 3 color control deck that has been tested at bigger events.

What I will say is that from the decks that were played in the feature matches at the Pro Tour earlier today, it looks like control will have a definite shot at beign a viable strat. The format is shaping much differently than what people predicted.

I plan on building this on MTGO, as I plan on recorsing gameplay, all I am missing are the Kaladesh cards. That way I can test the deck much more often.

As it stands some changes I would make are to try to sneak in Void Shatter in the main; I would also remove one or two of the boardwipes right now, probably a Descend Upon, to make room for Quarantine Field. I would also replace all copies of Noxious Gearhulk for Torrential Gearhulk, maybe only leave one Noxious. I would cut one walker. I would also cut Fragmentize and replace it with Ceremonious Rejection. Just some changes I can think off the top of my head.

The_Riddlebox Shoota Yasooka Grixis deck kinda interesting. But I cant find his decklist to view whats on his deck. Only managed to get little info from his match just now

NinjaGunung

I don't know if this helps but i found a guess as to what his deck list might be on MTG Goldfish.