bmc10

I think no matter what Dramatic Scepter can have a place in a competitive Emry build, the nature of the combo is simply that strong. If some one wants to run that set up I don't really think it's a poor choice by any means, it simply means the deck will have to be tuned differently to make optimal use of the combo. I've disliked it's performance in the iterations I've had it in so far mostly because I had difficulty in one of two areas: consistently getting Emry out and active as early as possible due to the number of additional tutor elements that feel required to reliably find Dramatic Scepter combo, and consistently hitting quality artifact targets for Emry to recur for value or a win (also due to increased tutor density and decreased artifact density). There is very likely some ideal balance where these issues can be resolved well, but I've had much better luck with the approach that eschews Dramatic Scepter altogether so far for increased consistency playing around Emry value. I'm interested in finding the optimal set up for both approaches in due time and figure the best way to do that is constantly check out other interesting Emry lists for the spicy tech that might make the difference.

When it comes to the keys in Emry I'm not quite sure how much value they would hold given typical play patterns for a number of different approaches. There's nothing wrong with having a nice artifact untap ability or two hanging around to generate extra value from Mana Vaults, Sensei's Divining Tops and the like but I don't think these pieces offer a whole lot as combo elements so they'd likely be pieces that only offer value generation. Makes less sense to run pieces that exclusively provide value without offering combo potential when those slots can potentially do both with something like Chromatic Sphere or Golden Egg. I think if an Emry list wants to get into Urza, Lord High Artificer packages with bounce elements like Paradoxical Outcome and Retract while running perhaps some stax elements like Trinisphere they have more merit as the keys would provide a lot more utility in these situations (particularly Manifold Key letting big constructs swing for 20 to the face). I did initially give an iteration including an Urza package with a key a try but it felt like the deck was pulling in too many directions to perform consistently. Again, with optimized tuning this might be pretty viable competitively, but it feels hard to make it work just right.

Scrap Trawler has been a wonderful performer for me so far. It's definitely going to be a card that Emry variants running a KCI package want to include as it opens up some seriously powerful lines (particularly the Intuition line to tutor for a full infinite combo with a single card at instant speed), but I've had a coupe of games now where Scrap Trawler chains simply for value led to a developmental advantage that secured my ability to win a turn or two later. The important thing to consider with a Scrap Trawler inclusion is that the deck will then really want artifacts in the 0, 1, 2, and 3 slots that can consistently sacrifice themselves for value of their own accord. I had one turn that I recall quite clearly where I had a fair amount of mana available to me and a Semblance Anvil plus Etherium Sculptor in play paired with the Trawler and some random Emry enablers when I drew into Memory Jar. I got to play the Jar, defend it with countermagic, sac Lotus Petal, sac Chromatic Star getting back the Petal, sac Mind Stone getting back the Star, tap and sac Eye of Ramos getting back the Stone, play all my returned artifacts for free plus a new one I had drawn, then sac the Jar getting back and exiling the Eye for later and draw a new grip without even using an Emry activation that I would then later use on a second Jar drop and activaton. I wound up drawing into 2 different engines that I was able to play and subsequently won the game. The value Trawler can generate can be pretty nutty at times when it leads to wins out of nowhere, and the combination of Scrap Trawler, Magewright's Stone, Krark-Clan Ironworks, any 0 cmc artifact, and any 1 cmc artifact as an outright infinite engine for mana (and often draw at the same time) is a solid capstone.

jaymc1130 Okay that makes a lot of sense thank you for going into such detail for everything i'm a bit new to cedh (and combo decks in general) and anything that gives me a better grasp or examples is always extremely helpful!

What're your thoughts on Altar of the Brood? With the various loops and reduced or null costed artifacts it would be an easy drop that'll mill your opponents.

Flagellum When I evaluate a combo piece I consider the questions:

(i) how efficient is the card in winning the game? and,

(ii) what does the card do for me outside of the finishing combo?

Considering (ii), Altar of the Brood doesnt seem to provide much utility. It can be able to disrupt 'top of the library'-tutors but as a proactive deck, this is not a perk we should prioritize.

Considering (i), it gets the job done with Mirran Spy + perhaps, Lotus Petal in place, but under these conditions we are very likely to win anyway. It should therefore not be included in this particular list in my opinion :)

I have a few questions:

1:how do we win if we have Vedalken Archmage out? Since our combo relies on Conjurer's Bauble putting 1 card on top.

2: what would be some good replacements for the $250+ cards?

I've been trying to make a budget combo deck helmed by Emry, do you have any suggestions?

ALLTHESESQUARESMAKEACIRCLE

1. Very good question! At first hand this would probably seem like a problem, but then we remember that we have an insane draw-engine on the field. We can just play the disruptive game-plan until we have pieced together a Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter combo along with enough interaction to back up a secondary wincon (such as Mesmeric Orb + Staff of Domination -combo or a more intricate line with Timetwister + either Swan Song or Brain Freeze).

2. I have not played/ brewed any budget/ more casual build of Emry unfortunetly so I redirected your question to the nice people at the Emry discord ( https://discord.gg/NeMwgTG )!

Sultai_Sir

As I have not played/ brewed any budget/ more casual build of Emry unfortunetly I redirected your (and ALLTHESESQUARESMAKEACIRCLE's) question to the nice people at the Emry discord ( https://discord.gg/NeMwgTG )! Are you interested in building a budget cEDH or a build intended for casual play?

Thanks for the Discord link! I'm interested in making a budget cEDH deck, and try to make it as competitive as possible without breaking my wallet.

Have you considered Altar of the Brood with an infinite artifact loop? Aether Spellbomb also allows you to draw your entire deck after infinite mana. Your list also excludes Cyclonic Rift and more board interaction such as Brazen Borrower. I have found that if someone resolves Grafdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace, they are incredibly debilitating unless you have a way to bounce them and then counter them later on.

Also, a very nice boardwipe to consider is All Is Dust. It removes permanents like Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Rest in Peace, and most players' entire board state. With so many artifacts in the deck, removing a couple blue permanents doesn't really feel that bad.

Also, a counterspell to consider for the list would be Wizard's Retort, as Emry, Lurker of the Loch is a wizard and she is on the battlefield more often than not.

Another land to consider would be Riptide Laboratory. It is helpful turn 4 if you wiff on your milling and are looking for another Emry, Lurker of the Loch ETB or all of the wizard artifact tutors. Also, now that Thassa's Oracle is a thing, you can use her ETB and bounce her back to your hand for finishing the game later. Thassa's Oracle also beats Gitrog in a less convoluted way and she can be returned to your hand after milling your entire deck if you have infinite mana and are running Codex Shredder.

Hope my suggestions help! See my Emry decklist at: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/emry-mono-blue-artifact-combos-cedh-wip/?cb=1593877497

Hey firrlo, just checking in on how Emry has been faring for you and discuss a new piece in Fierce Guardianship. I've only had a couple of games so far with it in, but I really like it's performance and wanted to see how you felt about the consistency with which it turns out to be a free piece of interaction for you in games. For me it's almost always been a free counter, which is very nice indeed.

What about Altar of the Brood to replace brain freeze? Storm has some advantages, but if altar isnt exiled from the stack its almost uncounterable. If this deck starts running Altar as a WC maybe find room for trinket mage.

I was reading the mulligan section and I'm new to cEDH how does this hand , Island, Mesmeric Orb, Mox Opal, Pulse of the Grid, Island, Mishra's Bauble play Emry, Lurker of the Loch turn one?

jackiscool231 the 0-mana artifacts Mishra's Bauble and Mox Opal reduces Emrys manacost to just one blue mana. Thats why! :)

phastings1982 We can target ourselves with Brain Freeze to dig deeper into our deck which is valueable. Also, it has storm which makes it counterable by only Flusterstorm. So in both these regards, Brain Freeze seems to be the better pick!

jaymc1130 Hehe sorry for not responding! Fierce Guardianship is an obvious powerhouse in this deck! It's simply amazing. I've also included Lithoform Engine along with many other new additions to my personal list. Will update soon :)

is there a reason for having fetch lands in this deck given that there is no need to fix for colors in a mono-colored deck

jackiscool231

They synergize with Brainstorm and Hedron Crab. If your meta has a lot of Blood Moon or Stranglehold, then I would cut the fetches + the crab and replace them with basics :)

Great list, would really be interested in building this!

I've noticed that you update your current list but not the primer. It is a bit confusing when some cards are mentioned in the primer like Metalworker or Power Artifact but don't appear in the current list. Are these cards still the strongest options or did you cut them for something else, if so, why?

It would be really nice of you, if you could update the primer to fit the current decklist.

Hullbreacher is a greart inclusion btw, I would have added that as well.

Bandalorin

Thanks a lot :) And yes, I realize it must be very confusing reading an outdated primer, sorry about that! Im going to make a few updates after im done writing this comment.

Metalworker and Power Artifact served as alternate options for making infinite mana. The current version of the decklist is more fine-tuned towards cosistently winning through either Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith or some Mirran Spy / Chakram Retriever loop (example: Mirran Spy + Urza's Bauble drawing your library at the beginning of next turn, then, in response to their draw trigger, following up with Shimmer Myr, looping Lotus Petal, and casting Brain Freeze for the win). I have simply found these lines to be the most effective in terms of speed, consistency and versatility. Because of this, slower win cons has been replaced by either protection or cards that promote consistency (card draw for example). Hope this makes sense!

Bandalorin

The primer is up to date now! :)

Thank you very much for updating it so quickly!! Great guy :) Are there any cards from the CMD LEGENDS you are considering besides Hullbreacher? Not sure if Jeweled Lotus makes sense but it could be T1 Emry if you're really unlucky with your hand?

Bandalorin No problem! :) Im glad that it mightve helped in some way!

Jeweled Lotus is actually the only card im considering outside of hullbreacher. I think the right way to evaluate the card is to approach it as a turn 1 exclusive dark ritual/ rites of flame. The 1-2 mana we would've spent on Emry with our islands/mana rocks is instead spent on accelerating our gameplan in some way. It makes some hands good that I would've considered much worse if it werent for JL. Consider the following (obscure and not very representative of JL's powerlevel) hands:

1 - Island x3, Mox Amber, Timetwister, Jeweled Lotus Lotus Petal, OR

2 - Island x2, Sol Ring, Jeweled Lotus, Isochron Scepter, Mystical Tutor, Urza's Bauble

The question, then, is: is a t1-only DR good enough? I'm leaning towards yes but I don't think I'm smart enough for a satisfactory answer to this question lol

So now that Hullbreacher is banned, theres not really a way of being garunteed to shut off opponents for 1 turn after you mill your library so your swans can attack. Isn't it better to include 1 Thassa's Oracle so you can draw all your counter spells and cast it for a win on your turn rather than waiting for a round first with opponent's cards still in play? Is there any way with this current list to win on your turn? Or to be so oppressive that there's literally no way to stop your attack next turn?

I dont get this deck at all. How do you only have 2 untappers? Plus they are creatures. I dont see any redundancy here at all. The average CMC is huge. And you are relying on only one way to win... Aight, do your thing.

My deck is worth maybe a thousand bucks at best and it looks far simpler and quicker.