SynergyBuild he was nontheless. Whilest still not having a clue about what he was talking about :-)

I have plenty of removal. In 9/10 games theres never more than 3 creatures attacking at a time, having more than that in EDH isn't really normal. And against token strats I have plenty of cards to deal with it. I do play boardwipes, they are just better than those you suggested, since they are onesided with benefits :-)

I did go over the most sought after comboes in the deck in my list, no need to explain why here as well. And if someone can't see the value in free flying chump blockers whilest netting me cards too, theres something wrong. The Living Plane is one of my strongest comboes, so asking why the heck it's in here proves that the individual didn't bother trying to understand the complexity - some minds are just not build for this kind of thing, thats fair. But then it's better to say, "hey, I don't really understand this combo piece, care to elaborate?" then being a condescending ass iamthemanateeofdestruction and trying to be smart about it as well.....

I will say I wish your landbase could handle more basics for Earthcraft, enchanting up a Plains and tapping all your enchantments (Opalescence) to get more mana to cast more enchantments and dropping more and more of your deck onto the field is great fun.

I have a W/G enchantress deck that does that thing exactly, and the Parallax Wave + Opalescence goes infinite mana and draw with Eidolon of Blossoms + Earthcraft. Abundance stops you from milling to death (you replace the draws with reveals, so you don't technically draw out.)

Doomwake Giant is the best enchantment board wipe, and it's synergy with Living Plane is godly! I also like how easy it is to tutor up (any enchantment tutor or creature tutor). I think a second option might not hurt, but otherwise you are fine.

If you run Faith Healer, then you have an infinite with Enchanted Evening and Ajani's Chosen (Just sacrifice the Ajani's Chosen to Faith Healer to not go infinite and cause a draw because of rule 104.4b).

[Help Needed] EDH GW Enchantress for the decklist to my Earthcraft-based build.

SynergyBuild I don't like infinite comboes, so I don't build around or with them. The Ajani's Chosen + Enchanted Evening combo isn't something I would do in a game, which is why it's not mentioned and descriped in the description :-)

I do simply not own Earthcraft, otherwise I might have been able to build a bit more around it. But in general something like that needs to be build around. And a 5C deck can't really handle or depend on basics, I can because of landtutor and ramp handle some. But not more. I'm kinda deciding wether to cut a basic or not, I'm testing that currently

Really loving that Conflux + Dream Halls combo!

It's a pity you aren't a fan of the Ajani's Chosen + Enchanted Evening combo. (I came across your deck via the combo, which I included in a crazy Zur tribal deck.) Ajani's Chosen doesn't seem that beneficial to your deck otherwise. Perhaps an Attrition to make use of the tokens? That would also help you sacrifice Aura Thief. Aura Shards would also be really powerful with the cats and your other token-generators.

Cleansing Meditation is a good backup for Calming Verse.

Enchanted Evening + Opalescence becomes a one-sided Armageddon if you have Mirari's Wake out. Could be worth a mention along with your Doomwake Giant + Living Plane wipe.

elgosu1337, thanks mate :-)

To answer your well though feedback. Cleansing Meditation is actaully super bad :( ... in a competitive matchup I would always priorities having my hexproof enablers on board before anything else. So threshold is never relevant. I have tested it, an unfortunately it's not worth the spot.

Tbh this deck usually wins through swinging after I've either stolen, wiped or trashed my opponents entire board, so sac enablers isn't really what I'm looking for. The cats and angels are swinging and stalling tools til I start snowballing. I've never tested the sac outlets.

I never really play to use the Enchanted Evening + Mirari's Wake + Opalescence combo, sometimes it happens cause of pure snowballing commitment, but it's never something I would tutor for, because the DoomPlane combo is much better and reliable in most cases :)

In short, I'm trying not to use cards which only works in combo with other cards. So AuraShards, Attrition, Cleansing Meditation is for now a no go. Since they require enablers, which I'm not certain to have without tutoring for it :)

I have a Zur deck, that as you can guess in enchantment focused. You seem to be good with them so I was wondering if you could take a look. Zur Voltron, To win against five..+1

Love the deck! Solid build. Not sure how it would fit in, but Chromanticore is right on flavor:)

Atmosphere thanks bud! Chromanticore is right on flavor, that's true, but it doesn't bring anything to a competitive matchup I'm afraid! :-)

I think Nature's Lore seems better here than Cultivate - the level of fixing it provides is better with all your shocks and since your curve heavily revolves around 3/4CMC it helps that. You could also look into adding cards like Birds of Paradise and Deathrite Shaman (since you have next to no land recursion) which will help the throughput of the deck. I know they don't play into the whole enchantments theme however that's the tradeoff between thematic-ness (if that's a word) and speed.

enpc I would rather have two for three, than one for two in EDH - especially when enchantress can't compete on speed, it makes no sense to try and force it into the deck :)

Wild Growth effects are better than birds and other similar dorks. Shaman however I would love to be able to play, but I don't have room and it draws way to much attention before I can value from it. Good suggestions tho.

Enchantress can be very fast, pulling turn 4-5 wins, not 3-4 like the most competitive combo decks, but 4-5 with decent interaction isn't bad.

SynergyBuild you already commented previously ;) But thank again. As I stated last time, I don't like or play with infinite comboes, as I don't think they bring any fun to the table unless it's a 4-5 piece combo. This deck is still highly competitive, and possibly one of the best enchantress decks out there.

And basicly can this deck rake up turn 2 wins and more frequentlig turn 3-4 wins, just like other combo decks. Just like this one :)

If the fastest it can win is turn two, given a god hand, that isn't impressive.

How often do you win on average?

Also, how fast do you win?

I have been playtesting it, and pull turn 6 wins on average, with minimal interaction.

I have yet to see it win against Tier 1-1.5 lists, yet I have only playtested it ~ 8 times.

These are the lists I ran it against:

[List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier the Tiers 1-1.5

SynergyBuild I'd say avg. is 5th and 6th turn wins. But this is a prison/stax/combo list, it isn't designed for speed like tier 1 and 1,5 commander decks. It's still one of the most powerful enchantress decks out there, no matter the tier lists :-)

I rarely lose with this deck, no matter the list. I'd say I have a 85% win rating with it on untap.in.

But I score my decks differently cause I don't really give a rats ass about netdecking and copying tier 1 lists just to rake in wins the some repetitive way.

But like every other deck, the pilot is the most crucial thing, so you playtesting it doesn't really say much, only that the individuel cards in the lists is stronger than the cards in this list. I could use dual lands, but I don't own them, so I don't put them in here. I could use Imperial Seal and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, but I don't own those as well ;) Lots of improvements, but no money for it.

I don't think you should claim the top tier decks netdecked.

Yes people may copy them, but they have to play them properly and tune them for their specific meta. They are generally the best (or most "powerful") lists, but not alone. Only when a good player takes them, and tunes them do they get truely powerful.

Lets take a comparison instead of to decks like General Tazri (hyper-efficient fast-paced combo) but more like decks in the likeness to Teferi, Temporal Archmage or Tana/Tymna Blood Pod. These decks are "Prison/Stax/Combo". Teferi can combo out super fast, like turn 3 without a god hand or anything, but more commonly sets up a lock, then uses Teferi, Temporal Archmage's -1 ability to get out of a Stasis or Winter Orb or Static Orb, etc.

On the other hand Blood Pod is a combo list that nearly never sets up combo wins until it has locked out each opponent. It has tons of stax and prison effects, and an easily tutorable wincon once each opponent is unable to respond. It is slow, but efficient.

The reason I bring up these decks is because if you claim being fast isn't necessarily good, you are right, but if it isn't fast, it has to lock out the opponents thoroughly. I'll take a look at every single prison/stax card you run. Then I will compare them. Enchantress can be built to be efficient stax, or fast-paced combo. This one clearly isn't fast-paced combo, so if you claim it is the "most powerful" Enchantress list. I would find it insulting if your deck isn't powerful. That would mean every other enchantress list is less powerful than a weak deck, wouldn't it?

Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study are the two cards that represent actual stax in your list. That is all. Ghostly Prison effects aren't really stax, and removal (unless it is land destruction) isn't stax either. The fact that your two cards that are stax are "may" triggers makes them some of the weakest stax. This isn't to say that they aren't good, but in fact only that they are not going to lock down the opponents.

This would make you incomparable to stax or prison lists, and you are too slow at combo to make up for it.

But maybe you just made a typo, because instead of "prison/stax/combo" you meant "control/combo", bit of a large typo, but I digress. Control is the last main archetype of the higher tier lists, and this deck appears to be closer to control on the face of it.

Control lists like Azami, Lady of Scrolls, or other lists try to build a draw engine, because otherwise they wouldn't have enough answer for each of the threats placed by the opponents. In this case Enchantresses are the draw engine. They normally run answers like removal and counterspells to stop locks set by stax decks, or slow down the combo decks enough for them to pull out their own combo wincon. In this case you run many combos. I wouldn't call it Control though, but I think that is the closest this deck is to a real archetype.

Why is it not control? in a 4 player game, which I assumed this deck was made for (it is under the tag "Multiplayer"), this deck needs to answer a lot of things. A The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale that the stax player dropped, the Hermit Druid that Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo player just dropped, or the Mystic Remora that's been drawing General Tazri a ton of cards. In Commander, there are tons of different types of threats to deal with. Since you don't run the catch-all Counterspells, you have all of 7 pieces of removal, and lets look at all 7 in total.

Banishing Light - Okay, this one is real removal, 3 mana may be exorbitantly high in terms of mana, but it hits a whole lot of things, so I will claim it works. Unless they spend one mana and a Nature's Claim, or any other 1 mana removal for enchantments.

Detention Sphere - Same as above, good with tokens, same glaring downsides.

Doomwake Giant - Well, this is a sweeper, and can trigger multiple times, but 5 mana is a lot for a deck with only a decent amount of ramp, hits hard on dorks though.

Gideon's Intervention - Not removal, I mean it doesn't remove anything, and is expensive for what is effectively a glorified Meddling Mage

Oblivion Ring - Same as Banishing Light, but is better, you can sacrifice it in response to it's enter the battlefield effect to permanently exile a non-land permanent. It can also hit your permanents, for what it's worth, still too high on mana.

Parallax Wave - Good at slowing combo, depending on the combo, stuff like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker will hate this.

Tainted AEther - I mean, yes it can slow a few combos down, but at four mana it feel pretty mediocre.

Overall, your removal either is way to expensive to expect this deck to be considered control, and doesn't run nearly enough, or isn't a control deck.

If the deck isn't control, stax, or fast-paced combo, I ask you, what is it and how is it supposed to be the "most powerful" Enchantress deck? I apologize if you think I am hating on your deck, because I love seeing a fun deck with interesting limitations like no infinite comboes, but limited casual decks aren't the most powerful, and it is an insult to many deck builders to claim their lists are weaker than this.

SynergyBuild thank for taking your time, even though we don't agree on everything, I appreciate it nontheless :)

I don't claim the top, I claim that it's one of the best enchantress decks out there. That doesnt mean there isn't a better list. Now that that's out of the way, I think you're misunderstanding some of my points.

I don't like copying tier 1 decklist, I like originallity. I can't make sense of your first few sentences.I was stating the same point your making right there :) The pilot makes a deck good. Hence why I don't really see the point in you playtesting my deck against a tier 1 decklist and concluding this deck is worse in every way (it might be though). Again, you see something that's simply not there. I don't claim anything concerning speed other than this deck isn't designed to be super fast, altho I can with a good hand.

So in short, you might have based your comparison on false assumptions.

The deck is indeed prison/stax/combo typed.

What prison do you run? What stax do you run? I only see combo.

I won't say I am infallible, I might have missed cards, or screwed up, but please, show me the cards and the interactions.

SynergyBuild I rate these card prison/stax:

Casting and destruction tax City of Solitude Karmic Justice Nevermore Gideon's Intervention

Creature tax Tainted AEther Moat

Mana tax and tapping Sphere of Safety Propaganda Ghostly Prison Rhystic Study Mystic Remora War's Toll

Damage mitigation Leyline of Sanctity Story Circle Kor Haven

Tainted AEther is pretty good against Animar, Soul of Elements, but otherwise feels like a silver bullet.

Moat doesn't affect cEdh decks, almost ever. I mean Sword of Feast and Famine gets hurt a bit, etc. Same thing goes for Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety. These cards are neither prison nor stax, just pillow fort.

"Damage Mitigation" isn't stax/prison either, just more pillow fort.

City of Solitude and War's Toll aren't "Stax" in a conventional sense (War's Toll is very close), but they are much closer to combo protection. Rule of Law or Ethersworn Canonist are real options for "Casting Stax". Nevermore and Gideon's Intervention are considered removal though.

Karmic Justice is just considered protection. It is in the same vein as Greater Auramancy, Privileged Position, Sterling Grove, and Asceticism.

That leaves you with the following real stax/prison effects.

Mystic Remora

Rhystic Study

War's Toll

Tainted AEther

Now, let's say all of these were efficient stax elements, like Stasis, Winter Orb, Armageddon, and Nether Void (Similar Average CMC)

Okay, would your deck be stax? No, it would have a few stax cards. Would it be prison? No though it can pull off one.

Now, lets go back to reality. You run 4 cards, of which Mystic Remora/Rhystic Study are may costs, and so can't pull off a prison, and War's Toll doesn't affect many decks. It can stop a bit of disruption, which is powerful as an effect, but it does set up a prison without other cards. Think how good it would be with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, if they pay any upkeep costs, they tap all their lands, and their mana disappears by their main phase. But you don't run it for that.

Finally, the best Prison/Stax piece you run, Tainted AEther, which can affect a few very specific decks, and slow them down a turn or two. If you ran 6-10 of these silver bullets, and tutored them up dependent on the situation at hand.

To sum everything up, you run 4 stax peices, of which two can't set up prisons, one doesn't in this deck, and one that could, but is a silver bullet. You are not Stax nor are Prison.

SynergyBuild this is ofc atleast in your opinion.

Since you compare cards that would never fit in an enchantress deck. I can't really be bothered with your black and white optic, since you're wrong about almost everything you just wrote.

Stax relies on resource denial, taxing effects, disruption, and sacrifice enablers, and all cards I mentioned is stax, obviously the damage mitigation is what it is, hence why I wrote that... Sure the 4 cards you mentioned is the backbone of a true stax primer, but this can't run those effects. I run similar effects that I benefit from, so it's obselete to discuss this with you, if you wont factor in the decktype and general theme of the deck.

These cards are indeed prison effects, no matter how you twist and turn it. Sphere of Safety - Propaganda - Ghostly Prison & Moat. I could run Crawlspace but I found in testing Moat to be better.

So by definition this deck is a stax/prison/combo.

You can disagree all you want, but the facts doesn't change. If you lookup prison and stax, my cards would be to find on almost any stax/prison list.

Yes, you do run cards that fit into stax decks, that doesn't make this one, I run Sol Ring in my Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger deck, you know what else runs Sol Ring? Kess, Dissident Mage storm. Now my eldrazi tribal deck is totally storm, and I will claim it is one.

You can disagree all you want, but the facts doesn't change. If you lookup storm, my cards would be to find on almost any storm list.