Now we have 18 three drops... That hurts me.

Thanks everyone for the help. Things are still a WIP, but I appreciate all the input. I'm doing a good bit of testing right now.

Don't worry tooTimid, I'll figure out a good balance :) I'd like to avoid Elvish Mystic and kin if possible.

Ashcloud Phoenix seems good but I'm not sure how necessary it it right now. More testing will reveal this and I'm not going to buy them until I'm sure their needed. I agree that strike is more universally useful and stoke, and I'll figure out the numbers in time.

If you asked something or suggested something I didn't bring up, I'm not ignoring you. I've read all comments and always do. And I'll be sure to update things often.

I have been looking at some number (2?) of Bow of Nylea in a similar shell. It's a nice little "plainswalker" that makes goblin tokens and rattleclaw/elvish mystics more powerful. Have you tried something like that?

Hey man, big fan of this deck in almost all its forms. I run a sort of similar tempo deck, but it's only UG so I lose aggressive cards like Savage Knuckleblade and Goblin Rabblemaster , along with burn, in exchange for lots of flyers, a little more consistency, and a more budget land base. Mysterious Forces (UG Tempo)

I, too, was very reluctant to add any sort of mana dorks, but after very begrudgingly putting in Elvish Mystic , I think the deck runs much more smoothly.

Of course, my deck is basically shut down by only a handful of cards: Mistcutter Hydra , Surrak Dragonclaw , and to some extent Bow of Nylea . I guess Heir of the Wilds could answer Mistcutter somewhat, and I could possibly include Curse of the Swine to kill Surrak... But as it stands now, my deck just basically loses to Green Devotion / GRx Monsters right now, especially post-board. So I'm wondering, what do you think the best answers to generic Green ramp decks are? Which cards have worked the best for you?

Thanks in advance. +1

with so many untap lands and so many three drops elvish mystic really speeds thing up. you don't need a full playset, just two or three. it would really smooth things out so much.

I wonder how Ranger's Guile would play here. I run a somewhat similar list with 4 of them and it's quite the powerhouse. I'm also currently testing Mortal's Resolve too as a pseudo- Ajani's Presence for green.

additionally, Jojja it's funny you mention the bow, previously he'd had an entire paragraph dedicated to how good it was and personally, I still stand by it and prefer it to ascendancy.

The point of a mana curve is to be able to play a spell every turn, rather than waiting for several turns before you really begin the game. For most deck types, it is desirable to have a few one casting cost spells, a few more two casting cost spells, several spells that cost three to five mana. you need either elvish mystic or less three drops and more two drops. this is just unproductive.

Elvish Mystic plays especially well with your current curve. Not only does it allow you to play a three drop on turn two, but on turn three you can play another three drop and hold up Stubborn Denial , or just a Savage Knuckleblade . I understand your original reason for shying away from mana dorks, but in this current iteration they feel necessary.

freyhackbarth: You need to keep in mind the nature of a mana base in the current standard metagame. While I may not always, I currently run 8 lands that come into play tapped. This means that very, very often I am playing one of those as my T1 play. And this is absolutely fine. Most decks in the format do this. And the ones that do not would prefer me to damage my life total by playing lands that hurt me to get anywhere. This is the nature of a 3-color aggressive deck in these colors. I don't have any 1-drops that I feel are worth playing at the moment. Elvish Mystic is the only one that comes to mind or has been suggested, and I've been testing with him. He's alright, but part of the strength of running this deck is the fact that every time I cast a creature, it is a threat. It's okay to not have that T1 play. It's okay to not have any other 2-drops in here besides Heir of the Wilds right now, in my opinion. I can't really think of any other creatures I'd like to be playing in that slot. Temur Charger ? Not big enough. Icefeather Aven ? Not impactful enough for my tastes. Sylvan Caryatid ? Sure, but if I'm playing mana dorks I may as well just go back to Elvish Mystic .

Furthermore, you need to take into account my sideboard. Between it and my mainboard, I have 4x Stubborn Denial , 2x Negate ,4x Lightning Strike and 2x Magma Spray . These are not T3-5 cards. These are cards I hold up mana for starting on T1-2 when I am playing them. They are there to stop specific things at specific times. And if those things aren't played, well I can then drop one of my numerous 3-drop threats and begin going to town on my opponent's life total. There's much more to a deck's design than just the curve. And I am a reactive and technical MTG player. Keep in mind that this was previously a control deck against all odds. I wish to play strategically and therefore I care a little bit less about getting my dudes out 1 turn earlier when I could be spending that turn/mana/card doing something to trip up my opponent's game plan, and following that up with my own.

Does this make sense?

doing nothing until turn three (since you only draw heir of the wilds about 44% of the time in the first 8 cards) and playing a three drop each turn for the rest of the game is not a good plan. even with a turn one tap land and a turn two tapland, and elvish mystic would be great in between since I can't think of any targets for stubborn denial at this stage in the game and sets up for a three drop next turn if you have no more lands or a tap land. even in these slower aggro decks acceleration always helps and playing not on a curve really feels bad with a hand full of 5 three drops. also keep in mind that stubborn denial and negate will practically never be played turn two and strikes and sprays only in peculiar situations, like on the draw against jeskai (already a favorable matchup). not to mention you still have an untapped land in your hand 89% of the time.

Bro. I think you should change your creature base up. Loved the idea of your deck when it was first created. I see what you're trying to go through in order to make this deck. I believe you need to add some bigger threats other than what you have.

this deck is crying for at least 2 Sagu Mauler . that card is an absolute house, I run 3 - 4 in my temur deck. maybe -1 Fanatic of Xenagos and -1 Boon Satyr ? even as bestow it's a little underwhelming late-game if you don't have trample and vulnerable to removal. Mauler is a huge bomb that destroys midrange and control decks. also consider a singleton or sideboard Hornet Queen / Arbor Colossus ?

winterflame6, I think sagu mauler is a good suggestion for another deck. it is too hard to cast if it is mainboard, so while it does end the game against midrange or control (like elspeth or aetherling) it should not be played. maybe sideboard.

I know you're aggro, but Xenagos, the Reveler seems like it should fit fine in here and help the curve a bit as you're heavy on 3 drops!

Kiora_Fan-01: I'm definitely heavy on 3-drops, but playing with the deck reveals that it's not a bad thing. On T4, it's very common for me to be playing a second 3-drop with Stubborn Denial backup or a Savage Knuckleblade with haste. It anything, I wish there were a better 2-drop I could include, but I really feel like the best ones (i.e. Temur Charger, Icefeather Aven) just pale so heavily in comparison to just running cards like Knuckles, Poluk, and rabbles.

freyhackbarth I see your point here, but Sagu Mauler has literally won me many a game against abzan midrange (net deck) and Dimir control (also net deck). it was mainboard too. just saying. dimir control especially cannot interact with it at all unless they thoughtseize it and usually the person will take more popular cards like polukranos

Sagu Mauler against other midrange/control matchups in the sb seems amazing!

elspeth has won many-a-game, but you don't play it in every 23 land jeskai or mardu aggro list. sagu simply doesn't affect the board until it's too late for an aggro deck like this to pull off a win, since it costs 6 mana.

it's sideboard and against control and midrange @freyhackbarth

yeah, thats fine. against the blue black deck, your almost definitely going to get six mana. abzan (or other) midrange, not so much. while landing a sagu mauler against abzan practically guarantees a win, it's not worth siding in since on average it will take you 16 cards to get six lands, which ends up being turn 9. Abzan wins before turn 9. you would much rather draw something else, like spootyone's all time favorite, the powerful three-drop.

I would say spooties deck draws enough cards for Sagu Mauler on turn 6 especially as it has morph.

morph can be heros downfalled, plus five lands will not be drawn (on average) until turn 7 (13 cards drawn minus one for sagu mauler) . plus that's on average, so that's only fifty percent of the time that he will draw that many land or more. the other half of the time it will take him longer, 25% of the time it will take him more than 10 turns to draw 5 lands.

I forgot he doesn't run Ranger's Guile. another favourite of mine against the pesky abzan midrange. it's basically a one mana counterspell for Abzan Charm / Hero's Downfall and the occasional Silence the Believers or Utter End and they never suspect it with the 1 green open. i mean it works in my meta not saying it'll work for everyone. often i'll go t4 mauler morph with mana open for guile and then t5 unmorph it. it's not the most efficient, maybe, but like i said... works in my meta.

Alright all. I have some changes I'd like opinions on, plz.

• 24 lands. 23 seemed good in paper, but in practice I got mana screwed. A lot. Like, a rage-worthy amount of times. I'm back up to 24.

• Mana Confluence. Similarly, I still had too many tap-lands. I worry about confluence hurting me too much, but I'm going to try it out to see for sure.

• Polukranos, World Eater. He's just better than Polis Crusher. I go into detail on my latest Showdown, if you're interested.

• Temur Charger. I'm testing him out right now. Having a bit of a smoother curve is nice, and the bit of a quicker aggression does help in some games. I already moved from 3 to 2 copies, though. He's very, very weak to removal and gets boarded out quite a bit. Arc Lightning is a frustrating card. We'll see how he turns out.

• Surrak Dragonclaw. Moved one copy to the sideboard. He's bad vs aggro. That is all.

• Fanatic of Xenagos was never very lustrous to me once I found out he doesn't trigger the ascendancy when they don't pay tribute. The cuts made to put in Temur Charger came mostly from him. I still have one since he isn't all bad.

• Lastly, I've added a couple copies of Anger of the Gods to my sideboard. Yes, it can hurt me almost as much as my aggro opponent. But you know what? Sometimes it's absolutely necessary. A lot of aggro decks are going wide right now and sitting back with Temur Charger and Boon Satyr and being unable to cast any more spells due to painlands means "hey, I sure with I could just kill everything" (this is a true story).

I encourage discussion.