Ok thanks for the help. I'll look into the Mindbreak and Shoal.
January 14, 2015 10:34 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #3
Celestial Colonnade is one of the most important cards in Esper control, it's a dual land and a win condition.
Spell Snare is another great one, hits a lot of Modern decks hard.
Snapcaster Mage and Cryptic Command aren't essential, but will also help you in the late game much more than some other cards like Far.
Think Twice is your best source of card draw since you can cast it at end of turn if they don't cast anything you need to counter. Not essential, but still quite useful.
January 24, 2015 1:23 p.m.
@lemmingllama Thanks! I'm wondering why Spell Snare is so good and how many I should put in. Also would you suggest cutting the Rune Snag for the them? Colonade, Snapcaster, and Command are all to rich for my blood but thanks for the suggestions!
January 24, 2015 1:30 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #5
Yeah, they are really expensive, but they are expensive because they are good. That's why I play budget builds.
Spell Snare hits many of the most relevant spells for decks, like Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Cranial Plating, their Rune Snags and Mana Leaks. Basically you kill off their turn two when you are on the draw, thus negating the disadvantage of having to draw first. It's better for a more competitive meta, I would probably run it as a two-of if you do decide to use it.
Currently, cards that I would cut would be the Liliana Vess and 1x of Lingering Souls, I'd cut them for either the Spell Snares or Think Twices. You could probably also cut a Supreme Verdict for a Wrath of God.
January 24, 2015 1:41 p.m.
Vapor Snag . Zeniths are REALLY slow for modern. also, you could try Murderous Cut, Snapcaster Mage Azorius Charm, Gideon, Champion of Justice, Cryptic Command, Mana Leak, Serum Visions, Thoughtseize, and so many others. This deck just seems like an old standard deck you put a few modern cards in to. You really need to make your deck faster, or it will never survive in modern.
January 24, 2015 1:46 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #7
Mana Leak is a better choice than Rune Snag, because you don't want 7 two-mana counterspells. 2 Remand and 3 Mana Leak usually suffice, while Rune Snag forces you to play more than the deck wants.
Cryptic Command is missing and really needs to be in the deck. Black removal like Dismember and Slaughter Pact should also find space.
January 24, 2015 2:02 p.m.
Thanks for all the help.
@Asher18 If the Zeniths are to slow then what would you suggest as a win con, Lingering Souls doesn't really cut it.
@GlistenerAgent I would love to put Cryptic Command in but I an a poor college student and cannot afford to spend 50 dollars on a single card. You would suggest that I drop some Rune Snag for Mana Leak and I think that's a good idea, in my play testings snag hasn't really bee working out too well. I will look into Slaughter Pact, is Dismember really needed if I have path?
@lemmingllama Why do you think that I should cut Liliana and a Souls? Also why would I substitute a counterable wipe for a non counterable one?
January 24, 2015 2:25 p.m.
You need to be running Dismember, Mana Leak, Cryptic Command. Some number of Batterskull is advisable. Spell Snare is among the best counterspells in modern hands down. Super important. You should back it all up with Snapcaster Mage. He's a very important addition because he let's you cast all your stuff again. Essence Scatter and Negate can be 1 ofs. I would be tempted to try out Repeal too.
I would take out almost all your planeswalkers except jace. They don't do enough.
I would cut land to 25 because you have a lot of card draw.
I would also rebuild the counterspells in this deck to make sure I had around 8 counterspells including the ones I listed above.
I would run between 5 and 8 killspells including path and dismember.
The rest of the deck is snappy, card draw, batterskull and jace.
January 24, 2015 2:29 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
It's wonderful to have access to a diversity of removal. Dismember lets you kill things without the disadvantage of Path to Exile, so you might as well play it.
I don't think you need 3 Supreme Verdict. 2 should cut it.
The planeswalker suite are all pretty poor. I'd prefer Batterskull as a win condition.
January 24, 2015 2:36 p.m.
@GlistenerAgent Thanks fro all your help! If I can get my hands on a Batterskull without paying 20 bux I will definitely add it. I realize why Dismember is worth playing now and I added that. I would cut another Verdict but there are a lot of hexproof creatures in my area and since I have to sac cards after removing Away, I'm going to keep it in.
@ChiefBell I realize you're right about Jace being the most worth while but I do think that Gideon and Ashiok both have their merits as well. If nothing else Gideon buys me an extra turn to try and top deck a Verdict to save myself with as well as providing a win con. And Ashiok provides excellent hand and graveyard control provided I get him to -10. They have both served me well in my play tests and I think that they both deserve to be one ofs. Thanks for the advice, it really helped!
January 24, 2015 2:46 p.m.
Instead of paying 5 mana to buy yourself an extra turn with Gideon put in an extra card draw spell like Serum Visions and spend 1 mana to draw into that board clear you want.
Never include a planeswalker for their ultimate. If you want it that much sideboard rest in peace.
January 24, 2015 2:54 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #13
The reason why I said a Wrath of God and two Supreme Verdicts is because Thrun, the Last Troll is a card that is hard to deal with. You have no real ways to deal with it. If that isn't an issue in your meta, then it isn't necessary. Typically when you want to wrath the board, they aren't playing a control game and the uncounterable bit is unnecessary.
Also the problem with planeswalkers is that you have to tap out to play them. This allows them to play their combos safely, or just kill the walker and have out more creatures. In addition, planeswalkers will rarely win you the game. I'd rather use a resilient card that can win the game, and just buttress it with more control. Jace, Architect of Thought is good in comparison to the other ones since he gives card advantage or can stop token/aggro strategies until you draw that board wipe. I would still never run more than 3 copies, but he is decent.
January 24, 2015 3:04 p.m.
Gideon takes over as a win con over WSZ, also Elspeth, Knight-Errant works, as well as the aetherling you have
January 24, 2015 5:39 p.m.
Hey, one thing I think you really should add is Celestial Colonnade as a four of in the mainboard. It's the tried and true american control list win con and I see no reason why it shouldn't work here, other than it's price point. Even still, it's probably going to see a reprint in MM2 so maybe they will become more affordable. Definitely would be better win con's than Ashiok and Jace, Architect of Thought (and there is better card draw than him too).
Secondly, not having four Thoughtseize in the main/sideboard is just wrong. It's one of the most powerful cards ever printed and definitely should be in an esper control list as a four of.
Not sure if price is a factor or not so i'll stop with these two suggestions as both of these cards are around 18-20 dollars each, but if you can afford or trade for them, they are definitely a must have in a control list like this.
January 29, 2015 2:51 p.m.
Thanks. Unfortunately price is a huge factor at this point due to my college student status. Thanks for the advice though, if I can trade for them I will!
January 29, 2015 2:53 p.m.
Deadpool213 says... #17
White Sun's Zenith is a pretty decent instant speed finisher. I personally run 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (he's actually really good and pretty cheap right now) , 2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion and a Wurmcoil Engine as my finishers
February 11, 2015 1:19 a.m.
mtgplayer100 says... #18
i think Batterskull is better than blood baron because you normaly can't deal with batterskull if you can't counter it. Artifact removal is always only in the sideboard if they got some. Creature removal dosen't do it.
February 22, 2015 5:07 p.m.
@mtgplayer100 Thanks for the suggestion but its out of my price range right now. I see how it is slightly better than baron but for now I have to make due.
February 24, 2015 12:49 p.m.
kendalmac417 says... #20
Also, add in some Banishing Lights into your side/main board for removal. they work on all cards besides hexproof! I believe it also works for opposing planeswalkers.
February 26, 2015 11:40 a.m.
Celestial Colonnade Best control win condition U/W has in Modern atm :) G
CommanderMath says... #1
Something to hate against affinity or storm? Hurkyl's Recall, Mindbreak Trap or somesuch? Disrupting Shoal or Spell Pierce to help win counter wars? Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are also both great. (might be banned though :P)
January 14, 2015 10 p.m.