you have 3 win cards... if they get milled, you're screwed. and you have no chance of winning. I agree with getting blood baron of vizkopa in there. maybe losing a jace for SOME other win con. doesn't matter what. But three win cards is just dangerous.

I've never had any issue whatsoever with milling.

Additionally, even if all three of them get milled, I always have my Jace, Architect of Thought and his ultimate ability to steal one of theirs. It's slower, sure, but if they're on the mill path, I think I've got it.

As for AEtherling main deck, I can understand your aversion to it, but it's worked well for me and I just plain like him and his untouchable nature.

I appreciate the feedback, everyone.

How has obzedat been for you? Everytime i play him he does work but it just seems so crucial for control to hit every land drop so i look at control decks to have a bare minimum of 26 lands. What are your thoughts on this?

Obzedat, Ghost Council has been the boss. He's really good, especially when everyone is expecting or playing around Blood Baron of Vizkopa . He either dodges Mizzium Mortars where the Baron would die, or forces people to use up two whole burns for him (which they usually don't have or have to save up to have), or they use a kill spell, but my Far / Away can save him in most circumstances where I face that.

Sure, he doesn't have lifelink, but he's larger than most of the big threats out there, and I get more damage out of him, and I don't have to attack to make him useful. Generally I get seven damage on the opponent out of him every turn, and he makes an impact the moment he hits the field. I've won games that went out of time and into the five-turn countdown thanks to him instead of the Baron.

Following yesterday's FNM win, today I went 5-0 on a Game Day event, making it to the top 8. Also, I'm going to update the deck with a simple change to the sideboard for what I really should have updated anyway.

I'm considering updating the land base to put in some Temple of Enlightenment .

...I would never have thought that you could do anything with 2 creatures. (I guess elspeth does put out Weenies, but still.) Wow.

Care to comment on my deck, o great and powerful NigrescenceBuff Buff Buff Buff

I'm thinking of putting in one or two Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver . I really like his ability to steal things, especially against anything that runs creatures, and his ultimate is good in a control matchup. He could be great with one or two of him in the sideboard perhaps.

Also, Quilipayun, the whole point of a control deck is to do stop my opponent from doing things and killing me, keep my card advantage up, and then after they're out of gas and I'm still ready, drop down a big threat and win the game in the next three to four turns. I'm not supposed to have too many creatures.

Sweet build!

Going to use this to play test against.

With a name like "Esper of the Gods", I was kind of expecting to see some gods :P

I'm liking this build, but I would personally -2 Dissolve +2 Essence Scatter and -3 Dimir Charm +2 Celestial Flare +1 Cyclonic Rift and -1 Jace, Architect of Thought +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion .

+1

Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is superb against creature-heavy decks - and nowadays other than mirror control and UW control variations, all decks run lots of creatures. It is basically card advantage on a planeswalker - unless your opponents get to remove him fast, case in which they've probably wasted time and resources in doing so. Even against control decks Ashiok sets up a time bomb. It may not be a Nephalia Drownyard but it's still a good card nonetheless. Experiment with him and let us know how he works.
I'm a bit concerned about the 25 lands though. I run 26 lands Esper and I still ended up on occasional mana screw. That is because of the heavy mana costs this deck has - apart from Thoughtseize , which I rarely want to cast on turn one unless I know I'm facing Monoblack/Orzhov devotion or mirror control.
Next, how useful is Dimir Charm for you? I found Azorius Charm to be more versatile, and Bile Blight offering much better removal - it gets rid of Boros Reckoner , soft Pack Rat infestation and Burning-Tree flooding.
Following this, I am very happy to see your combination of 4 Hero's Downfall , 3 Detention Sphere and the presence of Far / Away . This makes this deck a bit unique compared to what I saw out there.
How good is Obzedat? I haven't found him as resilient and useful as Blood Baron of Vizkopa . Out of a Mizzium Mortars he is vulnerable to a very high range of removal available in standard now. And he won't even survive your own Verdicts. I'd sideboard it and stick a Blood Baron mainboard instead.
Aren't 3 Revoke Existence in sideboard a bit too much? I don't see against which decks you could mainboard all 3 without risking keeping them in hand for nothing. If they are for opponent Detention Sphere in mirror why not give Glare of Heresy a shot? It handles Elspeth and D-Sphere primarily but can also get rid of Voice of Resurgence , Boros Reckoner , Fleecemane Lion , Brimaz, King of Oreskos and many other white threats.
All in all a very interesting build. I can't wait to see how it further evolves. You have a +1 from me. And if you feel like it, have a look at my take at an Esper Control build, Insidious Justice.

Yeah, I really do want to try out Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver , but first I have to get some, and then I have to consider how to fit him in. I'd probably put him in place of some counter spells mainboard. Possibly even in place of Detention Sphere mainboard. That would be weird, but might just work.

The lands are not often a problem. Generally in the few cases I do get mana-screwed, I can use Dimir Charm to help me out of it. Plus once I get my Jace, Architect of Thought out, one or two of his -2's will almost certainly get me whatever land I need. It's easy enough to mulligan just to get enough lands. I've started games with 5 cards and four lands, and won them. Of course, that was simply bad luck going down that far.

Also, Dimir Charm is ridiculously useful. I'll be able to kill a Pack Rat , Nightveil Specter , Master of Waves , Courser of Kruphix and most other early threats and enablers with it just fine (mana dorks included). This helps immensely. I'm even considering swapping my mainboard around to have 4x Dimir Charm and only 3x Dissolve .The second most common way I use it is in either mid or late game, to ensure my stabilization. I can look at the top three cards of my opponent's library, ESPECIALLY after they keep a scry. Often I can soft-counter things before I ever have to worry about them. On a few games, I was able to throw some of their big creatures and planeswalkers into the graveyard and give them a land to draw. You have no idea how much of a huge play that is. The look on someone's face after they keep a scry (especially if they keep a scry 2) after I play this card and give them the only thing they didn't want to drop. It's about the only thing in standard besides dedicated milling that is practically a counter to scrying. The advantage it has over milling is that I CHOOSE the card they will next draw. You never know with milling, but I do with Dimir Charm ! That means their next topdeck is that much more useless.I can also use it to look at the top three of my library and get myself out of a land-screw bind or to give me more ways to dig to my win condition. That's helpful, especially as the match approaches time out (which happens when playing control).Also, it counters sorceries. I haven't run into that being useful yet, but options!

Glad to see that you like my removal options.

I have found Obzedat, Ghost Council to be ridiculously good. It's true that he won't survive my own Supreme Verdict , but neither will Blood Baron of Vizkopa .Most of the time, I won't have to worry about my opponent taking him out with their removal, because I can either prepare to counter it, or can remove it with my Thoughtseize . My main concern is any red deck, and they tend to use Mizzium Mortars precisely because it takes out the Baron. However, they usually aren't ready for the Council. Also, the Council starts working immediately, with a 2-for-2 life drain, and if they don't answer him right away, he exiles with a guaranteed to follow up 2-for-2 life drain again. The Baron does not work immediately, and sometimes he can't press through safely, or can't block safely. He's also smaller than some main threats like Polukranos, World Eater , which means he can't handle it, and he simply dies to Stormbreath Dragon . The Council trades with the former and laughs at the latter. And he's bigger than or equal to most Mistcutter Hydra you'll see on the field, especially by the time you can play him. Obviously this is not an ideal situation, but it happens, and it is a consideration I've made.

The Revoke Existence is for opposition Detention Sphere and for removing gods. This is for god-heavy decks. It's also a way to take out Pithing Needle . So it's an easy sideboard-in card that is versatile enough. I don't like Glare of Heresy because it isn't versatile enough. If they don't run white, it's useless. I don't like that. Almost everyone runs some artifacts or enchantments, even if it's just in the sideboard. Also, bestow creatures! The Revoke Existence gets rid of them, too. That's a minor point, but yeah.

You have a really good point about Glare of Heresy though, especially about Elspeth and Voice. It cleanly handles Voice and quickly handles Elspeth. I might try to find a sideboard spot for it.

Just curious as to what your reasons are for running Dimir Charm over Azorius Charm ?

Please read my post #7 immediately preceding your post for the answer. Specifically, the third paragraph.

Nigrescence good point.. it really does depend what you are facing. Against creature-heavy red decks Ashiok however would probably do a better job than Obzedat. I feel Obzedat doesn't put enough pressure on the board, and I'd rather have more removal in its place and stick to Elspeth and Aetherling as wincons.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa handles monoblack devotion and Esper Control very nicely. Even against RWB I've had some very good matches. It depends what you are facing and how prepared your opponent is.
I'm not very happy with Dissolve regarding speed. If my opponent is on the turn advantage and they get to stick some power creeps on the battlefield, unless I have a Supreme Verdict in hand I won't be able to handle them. This is the reason why I decided I'd experiment a bit with Syncopate .
Lastly, thanks for the suggestion regarding Dimir Charm . I will definitely give it a shot and see how it behaves.

As for taking out Obzedat, I would need something in its place other than Elspeth or the Ling. I run three unique threats for a distinct reason. They are not going to all be disabled by one Pithing Needle that I must remove or else. They are also not going to all be removed with one or two Slaughter Games . Yeah, it may not see too many decks, but it's playable, and it can hose me. Yes, I'm playing around that card. Yes, it's worth it. So if I run anything other than Obzedat, it would have to be unique, and I'm not sure that I think the Baron can fill the spot that he takes.

Monoblack Devotion and Esper Control are not major concerns for my deck. I handle them quite well, actually, especially when I am up against other control decks.

It's true that Dissolve is slower. That's why I'm considering going 4x Dimir Charm and only 3x Dissolve . Just swap out the one sideboard spot. I'm also going to be trying out 3x Syncopate in sideboard in place of my 3x Negate . If it's good then I'll update the deck with it.

Go ahead and experiment with Dimir Charm . It is wicked fun and truly versatile.

As far as lands are concerned, I think your base is off. 5 Island , 4 Temple of Silence 4 Hallowed Fountain 4 Temple of Enlightenment 4 Temple of Deceit 3 Godless Shrine 2 Mutavault . You need 26 lands.

I don't think that as a control deck you need 4 Thoughtseize . You can just counter their spells, you don't need to be losing life to make them discard. I think you can turn 2 of those Thoughtseize into 2 Divination . You should be running 4 Azorius Charm though. It's got a bounce mode, as well as a cycle. Drawing cards is good. I think Syncopate is better than Far/Away, and I also think Fated Retribution is a 1 of. Detention Sphere is a 4 of.

Instead of Ghost Daddy, I would run Blood Baron of Vizkopa . He's a lot more relevant in the format. And pro white pro black is really really real.

Last Breath is something to consider as well, in place of the Dimir Charm . It exiles the Nightveil's, so they can't be "whipped back", and you really don't care if they gain 4 life.

These are things that I have observed at high level competitions

@valendras: Azorius Charm is no longer that useful since the appearance of heavy scry lands.. I learned that after experimenting with it the past week or so. I've found using the cycle mode less frequently, and instead of the bounce I'd rather have some better removal (Bile Blight , Last Breath , Dimir Charm ... they are all fine, whatever you like better).
What's more, I'm not so sure about Mutavault in Esper control (the mana requirements are quite heavy and you don't want losing tempo early game or you'll end up getting slaughtered by aggro/some midrange decks).
I prefer Thoughtseize to countering because, firstly, there are things you cannot counter in the format, and secondly sometimes you need to be proactive than reactive (it helps for instance avoid possible threats before throwing a threat of your own like AEtherling ). If I see in my opponent's hand 2 counters and I know he has mana for both, I can postpone throwing in AEtherling and try to force them to counter some other threat. With a counter in hand I wouldn't have been able to do that...

Running a Mutavault would be nice, but very risky with a three-color control that has two-color deep costed spells. I also don't have any, but I wouldn't put them here if I did. I would run one or two more Temple of Enlightenment if I had them. I don't think I need 26 lands, but it might be a good thing to try.

Not all spells can be countered, and with mana bases as they are, the extra aggressive single-colored decks (mostly green or black or blue) will have a distinct advantage and get the drop and keep running. Having Thoughtseize provides a way to not only 'counter' something (even an uncounterable spell) for two life before it hits the field, but to take out early threats and to see what they have in their hand. It does more than just attack a single card; it reveals information, which is crucial. It also helps me to plan ahead and to be ready to counter or kill something.

I might consider the baron as a sideboard card if I get him.

I am not going to put in Last Breath in place of Dimir Charm . Certainly not in the main board. The charm has much more versatility, and the breath is a dead card against another control deck or against a deck that uses higher powered creatures or hexproof, whereas the charm is always useful. The only time I'd make special moves for whip tricks is in the sideboard, and I've already got plenty to handle that there. I don't need to do something as silly as that.

Thanks for the input and advice.

Pro tour players would strongly disagree with your position on the Azorius Charm . If you scry something you like, you can draw it. You can cycle it at end of turn and then scry something else. Thoughtseize is fine sideboard tech, against other control decks, but against something like RG monsters, it's kinda just a card that says "lose two life". Mutavault is a $40 land for a reason. With wraths, counter spells, DSphere's and removal, you can keep their board clean, and do some damage with the vaults, before you drop Elspeth or your 'ling. It's been my experience, as well as the experience of BBD & other players in his tier that these are cards to play. Ultimately, it's your call & I'm not familiar with your meta, but this is the best advice I can offer

//Thoughtseize is fine sideboard tech, against other control decks, but against something like RG monsters, it's kinda just a card that says "lose two life".//

Domri Rade

Garruk, Caller of Beasts

Stormbreath Dragon

Mistcutter Hydra

I often see most if not all of these in the main board of a RG monsters deck.

Need I say more?

Nightveil Specter is a good sideboard card to bring in against anything running your U, W, or B. I use him in my Esper deck and he does a ton of work. Plus stealing lands is always a great thing.

Went 4-0 at FNM tonight.

I know I've suggested BBoV to you before, but I see you still prefer Obzedat. I'm curious, in what matches is he best for you, and what about him do you still prefer about the Baron? Have you tested both? I'm considering using Obzedat more often for my deck, so I'm curious as to how he's worked for you.

A Ruric Thar, the Unbowed dropped at the right moment by a naya/gruul midrange deck can cost Esper Control the game, since any spell you cast at that point will cost you the game - with all the Sphinx's Revelation available, timing is key and they sure know how to hit the right timing. Players have also become particularly resistant against counters thanks to Savage Summoning . So in such a situation, how do you plan on tackling this threat? (asking since I'm looking for a solution to this problem for my Insidious Justice esper control deck too)

kmcree

I find that Obzedat, Ghost Council is best against anything that runs red, but still useful against anything. I still prefer his on-time need to kill and the inevitable life-swap.Often I can run someone down without them dealing with him, or he serves a limited purpose to bait out spells like a Hero's Downfall . He's even safer with one counterspell in hand. It has been very few matchups where black or white removal at instant speed is a relevant factor or a dangerous one, and those are the only reasons why the Blood Baron of Vizkopa needs pro-white and pro-black. Because he sits on the field. The other advantage is against other decks that have board wipes. Almost always a sorcery. Obzedat is immune to that. I feel that they're both very good, but Obzedat just works better for me, I find. You can easily just swap the 1x of him with 1x of the Baron. It just depends on your meta, I guess, or your personal preference.

Tilwin

I'm not really worried about Ruric Thar, the Unbowed . He sees minimal play, and the places he does see play, I've got worse things to worry about (and typically only two of him to answer, rather than four Stormbreath Dragon to answer). He's not instant speed, so it's not a huge concern. It is essentially a six damage spell that costs me a card (unless I just use Supreme Verdict to take care of it and others). Threat level minimal. I dislike it, but it's not horrendous. Additionally, if they are casting a Ruric Thar, the Unbowed , you can cast Sphinx's Revelation in response, thereby gaining the life and the cards and avoiding the life loss since you cast it before he hits the field. Then I can just kill him with one of the cards I drew. If it's about timing, I still have the advantage.

I don't find Savage Summoning to be a huge concern. I have plenty of instant speed kill spells, and it's a spell likely only to run in a mono green deck as a sideboard option against me. Possibly a different deck too, but mostly mono green. It's easy to tackle the threat by siding out my 4x Dissolve from the main board and putting in extra removal and my fourth Sphinx's Revelation .

Have you looked at my sideboard? I have everything answered. The main problem is just anticipating it and sideboarding properly.