Yooooooo, is this your list?!

flipping thrones in multiplayer

I just found it and added a bunchhh of cards to my maybe board because of it xD

If so, why'd you take out the haste enablers like Fervor and Anger??

I have yet to read all these comments, but that list I linked to looks like it was definitely your old list lol

Your deck has changed a LOT! damn...though, that is 3 years old, so, that's expected.

No more Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Viscera Seer, River Kelpie or Puppeteer Clique?? why?

SO after reading the comments, it seems to me that this isn't really a "super competitive kill the table by turn 7" list, but it does hold it's own very well, right or wrong?

^ Also based on the description because you have your other decks.

What do you think of the "enter, everyone sacs something" creatures like Fleshbag Marauder, Merciless Executioner, and Plaguecrafter for a more competitive list?

I noticed you took out Razaketh, the Foulblooded, added Vigean Graftmage, then changed your mind on both cards. What was the reason for that?

And took out Sidisi, Undead Vizier, but felt that was the best....reasoning??

I agree with your previous statement that Razaketh isn't the most powerful in here because yes, he's the highest cmc card in any Marchesa deck. Even if you play Primordials, rune-scarred demon, etc. I haven't seen a list that has more than 1 8 drop (and that 8 drop is Razaketh)

Plus he's just better in a more heavy combo based deck IMO because you wouldn't care about life and you'd have sac fodder to win that turn, whereas with Marchesa, you can sac to tutor, but you wait to get the creature back vs other decks that just probably have an infinite creature loop already and need to tutor for the wincon card. Know what I mean?

And Sidisi's exploit trigger can be convoluted, but it can also be super OP IMO. It really just depends on the situation.

Hahaha I also noticed you realized Disciple of Bolas is just too good with Marchesa to not be in here :p

Ok lol lots of questions...

No, flipping thrones isn't my list. My old list can be found here. https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/769157-marchesa-the-black-lives-matter (I still like Legion Loyalist here lol)

Fervor I've never ran, Anger came out due to not consistently having a mountain. It was replaced with Garna, the Bloodflame but that got dropped due to the high cmc. Haste is good here but savvy opponents just kill in response to entering combat or the attack trigger anyways. Cards like Metallic Mimic do a better job of protecting your dudes and are more abuseable.

Sidisi can cause awkward moments when she comes back eot when I don't want to sac anything. I also have 3 other tutors which get the job done honestly (personal call though because she is good here).

Viscera Seer is a good card and deserves a spot, scrying is good card selection. River Kelpie is ok but I prefer Grim Haruspex/Midnight Reaper for the lower cmc even if there's no persist. Clique hasn't been in for a long time, I don't like relying on my opponents to have stuff in their yard (which they often didn't).

Fleshbag Marauder etc are very nasty cards when they're recurred over and over, I love them in Muldrotha and I'm sure they'd work great here too.

Vigean Graftmage came out due to never once seeing the card across 20+ games and as a result it didn't get the appreciation it probably deserved, it still should be in my list honestly. It lets me abuse 1 etb/death on everyone's turn instead of once per round which is great and it also curves into and immediately protects Marchesa and other creatures.

Razaketh is definitely a card that can and probably will get dropped again. It's just tough when you realize the card does everything you want in a Marchesa deck (besides +1+1 counters), but man that cmc is rough.

Anyways, thanks for posting and your insights. I'll be sure to check out your list and maybe make a few recommendations.

LOL, yeah, I ask a lot, all at once. But damn really? That's interesting..same name, lots of similar cards...But ok.

Yeah, makes sense. Metallic Mimic does some work..indeed.

I like River Kelpie because he draws when other people do graveyard stuff. True, but in a heavy creature meta Clique is pretty good. Not Amazing!, but pretty good.

Yeahhhh, I would definitely give Vigean Graftmage another try. When he comes out people always anticipate what's gonna happen and then you see the "oh, ohhh, Ohhhhhhhh" face after they read it lol

Completely agree! Razaketh is great, it's one of the non-free sac outlets that I actually loved in this deck because the 2 life can matter...but yeah, 8 AND triple Black can be difficult. Or, you're just playing that and doing nothing else that turn which feels bad.

Thanks man, I appreciate that :)

I just checked out the list you posted and I like the changes you've made: Phantasmal Image - not a change, but clones are awesome and I might add him. Imperial Recruiter - tutors are always great. Chasm Skulker - I had it in my first build, cut it, and now I realize just having blockers in this deck is awesome because your life gets dangerously low sometimes. Chaos Warp - great in general Last One Standing - seems really good, cheaper boardwipe. Ever backfire though? Midnight Reaper - def have to try this out, I just put in Harvester of Souls after having it for a while and this seems like a cheaper version. Shifting Shadow - seems like a powerhouse if no one catches on and removes it lol I've wanted to add this for quite a while. Glen Elendra Archmage - awesome with Mikaeus lol I'm sure you know. Nicol Bolas, the Ravager  ^Flip - I'm not a huge fan of that 7 mana cost to flip honestly, but, the effects do seem somewhat worth it. Sakashima the Impostor - I would have thought this is really good in Marchesa..no? Anger - I can understand that. I sometimes forget you need a mountain. Zealous Conscripts - I actually also took this out from my starting build. It didn't do much for me when people play small creatures and often just drew hate since people thought I ran the Kiki combo... Scourge of the Throne - I actually really like this card, but haven't played it much to have an opinion on it, but when I have, it hasn't done the amount of work I expected it too sadly. Consecrated Sphinx - seems great. I may test this out, I need more draw in my list. No Rune-Scarred Demon? - have you ever tested him out? I like the way it plays most times.

LANDS: I need a Hall of the Bandit Lord though, seems good.

Have you considered Forge of Heroes and Tarnished Citadel? Forge seems pretty good and I'm debating citadel, cuz 3 damage per colored mana seems like it might be pushing it.

Good on you for putting every fetch land though! I haven't invested That much money into my Marchesa landbase, but I should. Personally, personally, I don't think the OG duals are worth their cost in any deck lol - maybe when they were cheaper and I got a scrubland for my Teysa deck at $60, but now each being minimum $100?.. meh.. But I know everyone has different opinions on them.

Overall though, I really like the look of your list - it seems solid!

I just realized that's a fuckin essay xD holy shit...my bad lol

Lol essay indeed, but no worries.

From the top...

Imperial Recruiter is like a selective draw engine here.

Chaos Warp is our best answer to enchantments. Or Aura Thief if you see a lot of pillow forts or just good value enchantments like Sylvan Library.

Last One Standing hasn't backfired yet. I actually just traded for a foil yesterday, I don't foresee it coming out of the deck.

Midnight Reaper needs to replace Harvester in your list definitely.

Nicol Bolas I've never flipped (tried only once but he was killed in response). I'm not entirely sold on the card but he's a very aggressively costed flyer with a decent etb.

Sakashima is amazing here if you have Marchesa out and successfully clone her. Problem is people realize how busted double dethrone is and kill Marchesa in response leaving you with a 3/1 vanilla for 4 mana.

Zealous Conscripts is really good here but yeah, people I play against know I don't run Kiki so I'm sure that helps. It is a good answer card though and great for permanent theft (I love ulting other people's walkers lol).

Scourge of the Throne and Chasm Skulker are new additions. Scourge was technically re-added but the deck's changed so much since then that it might as well be completely new to the deck.

Rune Scarred I've never ran and it's always been on my radar but I've never prioritized getting one due to 7 cmc. Tarnished I've also never tried but mainly due to too much life loss already (32 cards can or flat out do lose me life)

Forge of Heroes I want to add but my lgs doesn't have any and I don't buy online.

Let me know if I missed anything lol.

Yeah, I have been considering Aura Thief I def have to get a Midnight Reaper...Also probably a Pain Seer. a less expensive Bob seems really good.

Yeah, exactly. I'd have to play around with Nicol Bolas, but I have a feeling I wouldn't like it in my deck personally.

True, true, but I mean, if that happens you could always just clone an opoonents creature to get value. So at least it's not a complete waste of a turn..but good point on Sakashima.

Holy shit...yeah...you can steal walkers...That completely slipped my mind that zealous says "permanent" xD

Ahhh I gocha. Chasm Skulker is great with Skullclamp. I just went more towards a combo build so it was cut, but I think I'm gonna take out some of those strict combos soon.

Scourge has kind of been hit or miss for me. If I get the second attack phase, it depends how my board survived after the first combat phase, who I'm attacking, if I even want/need to attack them, etc, etc.

What're your thoughts on Deathbringer Thoctar and Noosegraf Mob? I've seen them played on MTGGoldfish and they did help win that game for the player. Deathbringer can ping someone to death essentially and good on it's own, and Noosegraf can fill the board..and always has the counter for Marchesa to recur if she's out.

Na man, you got it all lol thank you. I am curious though...why don't you buy online? I buy most, if not all, of my cards from cardkingdom.. or my lgs.

@WunderlichDrums - Deathbringer and Noosegraf are good creatures here but they don't quite replace my 6 drops. Good budget options though.

Last_Laugh True, true, fair enough

I need help making 1 cut so I can add Judith, the Scourge Diva when Ravnica Allegiance comes out. Granted this does add my first real infinite combo, which isn't really what I'm going for here. I have an infinite mana combo that is more incidental than anything and never got used as a combo due to lack of mana outlets.

4 card combo anyways. Judith, the Scourge Diva, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Glen Elendra Archmage and any repeatable sac outlet. Sac Glen Elendra for days and ping your opponents to death.

Curious why you think so highly of Judith.

I posted my thoughts on RNA cards over on Lokotor's marchesa and that was even a card I brought up.

I can see the value in pinging any target I suppose, and the attack buff just helps to push the pace i guess, but she doesn't really feel like she's doing anything amazing?

The card I've got my eye on the most is probably Priest of the Forgotten Gods but i play a bit less of a beatdown / more of an aristocrat control style (less creatures, more actively castable counterspells) so it feels like a good value engine to me.

@Bloodytrailz

First, I'm not sure that Judith from Accounting will make the cut but I want to test her for 3 reasons. First, like you said it pushes the pace. Second, it gives me another alt win-con outside of combat (janky Mikaeus/Glen Eledndra/Sac Outlet combo). Lastly, it only costs 3 mana and I'm trying to lower my creature mana curve a bit due to 90% of my low cmc stuff being non-creature.

On that note... I should try Legion Loyalist . That haste makes for a pretty out-of-nowhere trample+first strike your team (for a measly 1 red mana) and even if he dies, he typically did so with a +1+1 counter.

Priest is a card that caught my eye as well but I feel it'd do better in tokens or aristocrats. The fact that it has to tap doesn't help the card much either. How consistently do you have a haste enabler or 2 guys you don't mind sacrificing so this guy can actually be used? Very high ceiling on this card though, let me know how it works out for you here.

Rakdos Cackler is a strong 1 drop for marchesa, comes in as a 2/2, always has a counter on it so you can also reliably sacrifice it every players turn. (Great with something like goblin bombardment)

My other 1 drop is Arcbound Worker for same reasons above with the maybe chance of distributjng counters to my other artifact creatures like baleful strix and sad robot

Thanks for the feedback on my own deck!

Just cruising through some of the comments and I saw someone recommended a Miren, the Moaning well. This is a solid card, but why not just use High Market instead? It's saved me in a few games when my other sac outlets have been taken out. Just a thought.

Like your build!

@Msmall612 - It's a good card and I'd run it if not for 2 things... First, I don't own one lol and second, I'm already at 5 of 35 colorless lands in a 3 color deck. My manabase is honestly amazing but I cant handle 2 colorless sources early (happens rarely currently but I'd rather keep those odds down).

Is it wrong that I want to make Shauku, Endbringer work here? I started during Mirage and I have a soft spot for this card, it was my first rare. I think this and maybe Mairsil, the Pretender (bwahaha) are the only decks that could actually utilize this long forgotten vamp.

Dropped some monies and upgraded a few cards to foil versions over the last 3 weeks or so. Viscera Seer , Demonic Tutor , Phyrexian Altar , Mikaeus, the Unhallowed , Unspeakable Symbol , and Torment of Hailfire .

Make a spot for volraths stronghold i would say

i recommend Dauthi Mindripper and Thalakos Deceiver

I've had Thalakos Deceiver in here before but he got dropped for 2 reasons. First, I'm not very focused on theft here and second I'm a bit flooded at the 4 drop slot which also competes with my Commander. It's a good card though and if I were more theft focused it'd beat out existing 4 drops.

Dauthi Mindripper I've never ran before and I respect that discard helps seal up games. The same concern applies that it's a 4 drop but this one fits the deck better. I'll try to pick up a copy to test out. Thank you.

Ok, I made a few changes to test stuff. Not sure if these changes are permanent so cuts were moved to my maybeboard.

Cuts: Corpse Augur - I love this guy but his ability isn't a 'may'. There's times I can't play this guy or having it out already gets in the way.

Sadistic Hypnotist - Most tentative cut here. I love that discard... it seals games. 2/2 for 5 mana and a human though.

Dimir House Guard - Another tentative cut. Tutors up 4 drops like Damnation or Sneak Attack or it's an evasive free sac outlet that protects itself.

Torment of Hailfire - I don't really go big mana here, this was a bad fit.

Adds: Dreadhorde Arcanist - I'm not sure that I run enough instants/sorceries here to make this work... we'll see.

Judith, the Scourge Diva - She seems promising to push the pace of aggro, shame she's a human and not a wizard though.

Jokulhaups - I feel like a dick ending games this way but this deck needs that option. Going back in and probably never coming out either.

Scourge of the Throne - This is my most tentative addition, I'll see if this guy actually sticks and puts in any work. Seems more like walking into counterspells or targeted removal willingly though.

I'm after opinions on these additions/cuts please.

Ok, so I think I opened the luckiest pack I've ever opened today... Liliana, Dreadhorde General with Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God in the same pack.

I'm contemplating making room for Lili. Opinions on a cut? Scourge of the Throne is the first card that comes to mind for me.

Judith, the Scourge Diva interesting..I thought it was your deck, but it could've been a different Marchesa list where I said Judith seems promising and the deck creator said they don't think it's worth much in the deck. I don't remember honestly whose deck it was lol

Scourge of the Throne [ does work when you get it out, I haven't drawn it much to be honest though. But it's definitely a good include...Unless you find more powerful 6 drops for Marchesa's ability.

WOW..that is a lucky pack! Good for you man!