TheDuggernaught:

The changes made, were for the best. Liliana of the Veil is a great card and did work well. However, there is a synergy behing Nissa, Steward of Elements, Kiora, Master of the Depths, and Liliana, the Last Hope.

Kiora, Master of the Depths: +1 may ramp and untap creatures to allow attacking. -2 allows for 2 cards to be placed into hand and works extremely well with Nissa and Liliana's abilities.

Nissa, Steward of Elements: The +2 Scry.2 is what sets up, for Liliana's -2 or Kiora's -2.

Liliana, the Last Hope: Aggro is being played a lot at the moment, so this Lili just works better. Her -2 also has synergy with the other walkers, for massive creature plays.

I decided to go back to x2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang and removed 1x Grim Flayer. While they are both good, Tasigur is just worth the addition to the deck. I feel that anything more than x2 Delve spells, when paired with Delirium is too much. I tried a friends suggestion on it, and so far it has been smoother. I also like the abilities. I had missed them in the late game. Either option for creatures is correct though. This is a personal change.

I really loved Unbridled Growth. It is still great, however, with so many creatures, planeswalkers, and 20 lands--Oath of Nissa had to be given a shot, but only at x4. The idea behind this is to kill the 1st one like when a 2nd Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth comes into play. It may also be discarded with Collective Brutality, but overall: I think this card makes Serum Visions look weak. Especially in a shell needing card types.

Good old fashion Thoughtseize. Luckily for me, there has been less, and less Eldrazi & Tron, shifting towards more and more burn and or Death's Shadow based decks. I have been very fortunate with this new Collective Brutality.

Hopefully I was able to answer your questions.

Your deck name has me dying...

AtomicEmpire:

...You'll be resurrected, like Freeza!

I've been testing this, and I'd reccomend tightening up the creatures. Make the Rhonas a fourth Flayer, and I'd have another Bauble if it were me, they are so useful for Goyf. Mabye the Vampire Nighthawk could go for it?

I'm also having issues with Delve and Goyf paired up. Maybe you could run Traverse the Ulvenwald instead of Tasigur, as I think you should only run two of the following effects: Delirium, Delve, and Goyf. Goyf and Delirium synergize because they don't touch your yard, but still take advantage of it. Cheers, I love the deck otherwise!

AtomicEmpire:

There's no need for that. Rhonas has held on, for my liking. I could go back to 4x Flayer and 1x Tas. The creature base is always subject to change, with this 75. I will find a way to post my games via recording, to show you it works fine, for me on paper. Thanks friend.

you could possibly add Countersquall?

How have that Nighthawk and the new Nissa been treating you? I just pulled her and I'm thinking of giving her a try. Kiora (albeit that with her +1, she is a 3 drop planeswalker), I'm not too sure she would be a good choice in my deck. Obviously now with the changes you made, I can see she fits perfectly here, but I wanna see the interactions between Nissa and Lili so I'm just running the x2 Lili and x1 Nissa for testing now. As for the Nighthawk, I'm kinda interested in what he offers the deck.

JKRice

Countersquall is a great card. I have it in the sideboard, for more control based matches. I also use it against Tron and Scapeshift.

biorose671

Hello. I have only been able to use Vampire Nighthawk about 2 times, so far. he is alright. It does not really enable Rhonas the Indomitable on it's own, but it is a great blocker, and may act as "spot removal." The interactions between the 3 are fun; Nissa sets up liliana and kiora, for some sweet card advantage, or the creature you want. They bring them back, and cast them for almost free (Nissa). It is a personal combination that I am testing out and enjoying. I play Magic almost every other day, so a lot of my stuff is subject to change. That is why I constantly update the deck.

I had results up--you guys know that, but it made the mage ugly, lol.

I was thinking of running Ancestral Vision as well, but someone at my LGS made a good point to me. When casting Visions, you need to remember that its a payoff on turn 5 (T1: Suspend, T2-T5: remove counters to cast). That being said, it's a smart choice to have this in your opening hand so running 3-4 is usually a must. Yes, both our decks are control decks, but we're more midranged and so we're not in it for the long haul. Unless your play testing have proven otherwise, I'd like to here it as well. Continue spreading the love my friend.

biorose671

I was thinking the exact same thing, but in all honesty--this deck is a slow deck and aims for the long game. By turns 3-5 is when we actually begin to attack against certain decks. Most of the time we are forcing our opponents resources to be depleted with our "in response" plays, while dropping super effective creatures, for their mana cost. Ancestral Vision shines in the late game and that is where this deck shines. In the early game we dismantle the opponent. The only thing is that I do not like that it does not play well with Snapcaster Mage, but I will be doing some LGS play testing on Thursday 05/25/2017. I have been wanting to do more casual testing, but my play group has been busy recently, i.e. school finals, jobs, and what not. I will certainly keep you updated. At first, I was skeptical about Oath of Nissa, but I will never know how anything performs, outside of theory, if I do not take a chance.

If it sucks and I constantly get beat, it is a learning process. If I start winning more because of "gas", then I learned a new trick.

@cplvela0811, do you have a Cockatrice account? We could get together and test sometime.

AtomicEmpire7

I do! I actually was on the verge of giving up on it. Too many rude people. I was starting to consider MTGO. I want to play a lot, but my friends have different schedules than I, so.

I've been play testing on either cockatrice or at Untap.in (think cockatrice but browser based) and I've been finding it hard due to crappy users. I too thought about MTGO but damn....thats hard to do from scratch if you wanna build a modern deck to just play test. Not sure if investing $$ into both paper and digital cards is worth it for me...

IMO i think you should ditch the 2 Ancestral Vision and 1 of the Traverse the Ulvenwald for 2 Inquisition of Kozilek and 1 Thoughtseize or 3 Thoughtseize. The extra Traverse the Ulvenwald is nice for land fixing but Thoughtseize and the like set up for Tarmogoyf very well.

Also how is the Oath of Nissa treating you, i love the idea and seems like its a great addition?

biorose671:

I agree 100%. We should add each other and have fun.

skeletonkey8

Thanks for the advice. I have yet to cast AV, but I get paper practice tomorrow. Perhaps I shouldn't test it after all? Everyone is suggesting otherwise, but I wanted to give it a spin. I'll give it a tweak.

Oath of Nissa is the real deal. People will catch on. It is one of the cards that make me feel safe. Searches fow my win cons, mana fixes, goes to graveyard in multiples, helps your walkers. As long as the Grim/Goyf package is here; it is an untouchable. It is that powerful.

Now bear with me here, cuz I was thinking of Bloodghast too, but what about this: Bloodghast + Kefnet the Mindful + Rhonas the Indomitable . with Kefnets draw ability, we get a land back to trigger landfall for Bloodghast. And with another Indestructible creature on the field, Rhonas can swing with no worries about spot removal. Another good substitution for Kefnet is Bontu the Glorified with an even cheaper ability, we can start sacking those bloodghast for some tempo play maybe

biorose671

I think that is an interesting take. Lets test that theory out? I have a friend with a somewhat similar concept. The Bontu trigger is Nice too, and that would be a couple new additional 3 cmc slots.

I switched the deck to this method again, because I wanted to wait until I purchased my Bloodghast & Life from the Loam. I was also convinced of the power of Ishkanah, Grafwidow, by the same friend.

The only problem is its a super expensive deck.

HackSlice:

You are right, but with different prints of certain cards, can make for a few hundred dollars less. However, I wanted to thank you, for the up vote!

switched back to delve huh?

biorose671:

Delirium is still very effective & viable ~ I wanted to play a more Controlling build, for the moment, as it suits my play better. I will rotate between the two. The one you are running is still damn strong!

Curious as to why you run Ceremonious Rejection in the sideboard over Spell Pierce or more Stubborn Denial? Also currently working on my Sultai deck and I would love some feedback. Deck Link: Bug out!

@mattsprestige Dont mean to speak for cplvela0811 (so correct me if I'm wrong), but generally Tron is the bane of decks like this. Eldrazi is also a very real deck. Ceremonious Rejection hits both of those decks super hard.

mattsprestige:

This will sound so weird, but the TheDuggernaught is spot on with his analysis and explanation. It also stops Affinity and if Iron-Works gets any better ~ it will stop that too.

Stubborn Denial on the other hand is just better as the game goes on. With cheap creatures such as Tasigur, the Golden Fang & Tarmogoyf ~ there are hardly any problems for the Ferocious activation. The best way to explain, for me is as such:

Spell Pierce = weaker Mana Leak

Stubborn Denial = Greater Negate

The deck caters to itself and paired with Snapcaster Mage makes for some insane 3 mana cmc versatility ~ Fatal Push, Serum Visions, Thought Scour, Thoughtseize, Slaughter Pact, and so on.