Yup more lands

my lists have served well enough on 22 though

my_key, Apakakuta, I really don't know what to tell you guys. I own the deck on paper and cast my spells efficiently ALL the time. Do you guys not see that the curve of the deck is 2.20? With Thought Scour & Serum Visions that makes for 8 Can trips. I can see your skepticism on 20 lands and that's fine, but this isn't "all the Sultai control lists you have seen." there are not multiple copies of Thragtusk, and Cryptic Command.

The deck was initially using Gitaxian Probe and resembles Grixis Delver slightly in the way it played. They use 19-20 lands while using somewhere between 8+ can trips, while using Young Pyromancer and Kolaghan's Command--that deck works just fine, and so does this one on its land base. I highly encourage you to experiment outside of the "24" count land package. 1 or 2 lands couldn't hurt the deck, no, but this is the main reason I don't play Inquisition of Kozilek. Sure it discards a card, but my hand needs to stay full with all the can trips (replacing a card for a card as opposed to just looking and discarding) that is how it gets to draw into the land base it needs. Go look at Grixis Driver. I simply chose Tarmogoyf over Delver of Secrets  ^Flip and Abrupt Decay over Kolaghan's Command.

Perhaps an argument to add Ancestral Vision?

You assume I don't own sultai in paper as well. cplvela0811

I run sultai as my primary modern deck and I play and have played a lot of the ways that sultai can be played. I am only giving you my opinion on the matter. Can you have success with only 20 lands sure.

However my skepticism comes from my experience with 8 cantrips and 22 lands in most of my builds.

If Gitaxian Probe was in those builds, that could account for a land or two light, I think.

Happymaster19

BUG Flayer and Sultai's Hope (Competitive Homebrew)

No Gitaxian Probe just 4x Serum Visions+ 4x Thought Scour

Apakakuta I in no way shape or manner challenged your arsenal of Magic cards on paper. I am simply not sure you have ever tested these waters. I stated that I have been playing the deck, for a tad bit of time and find that I seldom have mana issues. Serum Visions & Thought Scour are cool and all, but they are in no way shape or form Gitaxian Probe and Happymaster19 understands that. this was never my initial list, but the bans happening literally targeting a card in this old 75 made me have to shift or play something else in anticipation of GP San Jose.

Look here. for an actual ''professional'' player who plays a deck with similar features--at 19 lands. He calls it "one of the most consistent decks."

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/grixis-delver-primer/

While I have played different iterations of multiple decks, this one was a "Delver" list, without Delver of Secrets  ^Flip, for Tarmogoyf. I have been pitching just fine against some mean decks. I have beat Infect and Eldrazi decently now. I draw into lands, and I play lands well. I have been able to "flashback" Cryptic Command with Snapcaster Mage and even animate two Creeping Tar Pit at once. Once again I am not refuting adding more land in general, but I am skeptical of how not too many people know you can play good magic at 20/less lands. Affinity can play anywhere from 16+ lands and not always run Thoughtcast, but is still a Tier 1 deck, for a reason...the curve.

Happymaster19 you literally read my mind. I was thinking what...2 of? Wouldn't that warrant it more Midrange and then call for a higher land base? Either way, I have wanted to play with that card, but felt the suspend was too slow. Maybe with Probe gone it will be a bigger house in Modern.

I'll be honest, I couldn't tell ya. I wanna say you should go for playsets of the black fetches as I think fetch swamp into Fatal Push will be a key play to have access to when you can.

I can see sticking to 20 if you go for things like Delver of Secrets  ^Flip or Dark Confidant.

I want Dark Confidant in here. I will post another picture of what I have been testing. The thing is this, I believe the deck was doing good because it had so many creatures that survived Lightning Bolt & Abrupt Decay I.e. the Delve creatures. With Bob in the picture it leaves room to be removed easily, but saves my bigger creatures, for win cons, but Bob can be a win con if he stays out too long. Gnaw to the Bone really helps with this part, but would you agree 3 Bob's is where I should start? I have an FNM tomorrow, but can test prior (as much as possible, for a day).

I shouldn't have mentioned Bob. I hate him next to Delve creatures. Even though Liliana, the Last Hope helps. If you went a Delver route, you could probably make it work. As this more midrange build, I think you maybe just want to add some cheap spells to justify the curve. Maybe a fourth Fatal Push or some Inquisition of Kozilek. Things like Gnaw to the Bone might have a place, but in the main, they just look clunky. I want Tarmogoyf in this list Burn i think it fights with the Delve creatures as well. Maybe the best choice would just be swapping the Tarmos for Delvers? That would also bring the curve down.

cplvela0811 I've been playing sultai or in modern extensively since fate Reforged. Every Modern monday each FNM on a near weekly basis barring me being able to go ( my duties to the military prevent me on occasion). I've tested the color combination in near any configuration you can think of aggro control, pure aggro, midrange,control, combo, you name it in these colors I've tested it looked into it and tried it. I'm speaking with years of testing under my belt.

Can 20 lands work yes. Have I found that consistent for , Not with a curve at around 2.2.

I also run my decks through the vigors of hypergeometric probability recording my results in spreadsheets. I've found more consistency of higher than 20 lands. Now of course having Gitaxian Probe alters the argument since that card is "free", fuels delve, digs deeper into the deck, and let's you run less lands. All while sculpting an optimal game plan against the opponent.

However now since you will no longer have access to that card I believe more lands are required. Due to my testing with simular 75's.

One of my major reasons is that paying life to cycle and taking pain off the fetch shock 3 color mana base puts your % of wins against Burn, zoo, Naya landfall ( a deck that is coming back thanks to Renegade Rallier), and simular decks is lower. It also puts you behind grixis delver and blue moon decks since they can burn you out easier. Of course that is why you play gnaw to the bone but as a 1 of it doesn't always show up.

Do not take my comments as harsh criticisms take them knowing my intention is part my knowledge and testing onto you. I want to help you with your deck I want Sultai to be recognised in higher level play.

Just take my opinions into consideration since I make them with data behind them.

My versions of sultai stands up to most tier decks my "bad" match ups being 1st tron, 2ND bant eldrazi (this match up is just around 45% for me) 3Rd dredge. Does this mean my deck just folds to these archetypes no, but these are trouble areas. Tron is just the predator of control and midrange unless your deck is full of hard counterspells. As for eldrazi it's just hard to see enough removal to kill all their guys or race them so they have a slight edge. Dredge is just busted and our removal doesn't stop their recursion.

Some close match ups are grixes delver and burn (hovering around 50%)

That is why I make the suggestions that I do.

I hear you Apakakuta I am just upset that a probe is gone. Maybe two lands should be the case. Perhaps taking a step back and redesigning the creature suit could help.

That is more what I've been trying to say take a step back look at your options.

Grim Flayer has proved to be an interesting one.

Buuuttt due to the being given a few new cards each set. It has given us a good amount of cards to build different kind of decks. Personally what has been ring best for sultai is a happy medium between the grixis style and the BGX style.

Cards like Traverse the Ulvenwald also peak my interest in making a BUG gifts/tutor toolbox shell. Been playing with that idea but haven't had a configuration yet that I've wanted to test.

The new Liliana, the Last Hope you can play more counterspells. LotV doesn't lend to that game plan near as much.

My hope is that Amonkhet gives us more of a direction and identity for the color combination.

Apakakuta what do you think now. Mishra's Bauble can also act as a permanent, for Fatal Push. I think this may be the way to go with Flayer. It will certainly help Tarmogoyf, AND...it is still technically "free."

The curve is now below 2.0

That is looking better. The Mishra's Bauble really works well here for all the dimensions.

One thing I'd question is the mana base you seem to be unsure with 1 of each fast land and random number of fetches. Also you are leaning heavy blue. I'd take another look at the color requirements aND consider what do I need turn 1? Turn 2? And up. You need GB on two often for decay or flayer. Black for fatal push the 1 green and blue on turn 2. But double black for liliana and to double spell. Review that.

I think playsets of black fetches are gonna put you in a good position to get black and revolt for Fatal Push. It's your strongest color here so you can probably drop a Misty Rainforest. My personal preference says to add one of each of the black man lands (Hissing Quagmire and Creeping Tar Pit). The fastlands are nice but with the aforementioned heavy color swinging requirements, you may need to let those fly. At least the Marsh looks spotty. Gotta look at your one drops and most of the ones you want to cast on turn 1 are blue.

Darkslick Shores is the best of the fastlands for this deck.

However wanting green on two is a thing to consider so the number of Misty Rainforest if fine.

My concern was the basic and shock counts.

I like one more swamp for those Fatal Push instances. 2 Islands and a Forest. And an Overgrown Tomb in place of a Breeding Pool.

Also, considering you are more midrange, what do you think of Tombstalker in place of Gurmag Angler?

Also, considering you are more midrange, what do you think of Tombstalker in place of Gurmag Angler?

19-21 13 11

Overall mana requirements: with 17 black sources 4 fetchable 4 draw able 9 fetches 8 fetches ( on color)

19 blue 5 fetchable 5 to draw 9 fetches 5 optimal fetches (on color)

14 green 4 fetchable 1 draw able 9 fetches 5 optimal fetches ( on color)

So after analyzing the manabase I'd also say another swamp and find a few more green sources. Especially since you rely on green mana to close a game out majority of the time.

Take into consideration what color you need on what turns of the game as well.

While this mana base will work it won't be as smooth or consistent too often. This is something you will find out the more you play. Keep track of what colors you use most on what turns and accommodate your mana for that.

Another aspect to keep track is what does my sideboard plans do to my curve and mana requirements. For instance your SB has a lot of and costs. While the current configuration supports double black you will be hard pressed for green mana. However being able to cast for Cryptic Command may be doable off what you have are you sure you want that?

Think of your deck as black splashing simic.

I will update my list tonight. I played against my brother's U/G Infect and beat it back to back. Snapcaster Push is insane.