Inf3ct also got nerfed and the MU'S against infect wasn't bad before Fatal Push but I assume it is just as good as bolt snap bolt for killing things.

For the most part. Infect can't use pump spells to get around the Push unlike Bolt.

There is now a way to punk their hand. For its nuts.

No Fatal Push is better at killing than bolt. My comment was merely saying the MU with infect was not bad before. Yet only gets better.

Seems solid. I'd probably run some hand disruption to replace git probe, the info really does matter, so i'd go for Inquisition of Kozilek. As for Bob, you are really asking for it by running him with delve spells. Tasigur burns you for six, cut hits you for five, and you have no way to mitigate that. He is just way to risky when you have 8 cards that bolt you off bob.

skrid54321 I can see what you're saying. If I were to use Bobby, I would cater to his curve, with things like Slaughter Pact & going back to Mishra's Bauble. As for Inquisition of Kozilek, I have been considering it, but Serum Visions really works as a cushion, for the deck. I really underestimated the Scry 2. Kepping cards in hand is more important with as opposed to . The green is essentially a splash and the countermagic has been working thus far. I can check out some testing with it, however. Thanks, for the suggestion man.

cplvela0811 for FNM did you play the older 75 or the new one with something in place of fatal push?

Apakakuta I ran this except I had Hooting Mandrills in place of the 4th Snapcaster Mage and the Cryptic Command, for a total of 2x Hooting Mandrills. I also ran 21 lands as opposed to the now 22, for a 3rd Mana Leak. I ran 2x Dismember. Fatal Push is definitely where we want to be.

I agree with that. Also does have the two ways to go. utilizing the normal jund like plan with some extra edge from things like Snapcaster Mage and Ancestral Vision.

However there is also the way that utilizes the graveyard plays efficient cards in a more grindy control plan with counterspells. And big efficient beaters.

And Fatal Push enables you to do either strategy in BUG now.

The conundrum lies do I want discard? or do I want counterspells? If you run both the deck is less consistent.

Another constraint is if using Grim Flayer then you need to have a balance of card types. That can be hard when you are making a super reactive shell.

Apakakuta, dude you are spot on. I like the side of things, for Sultai, but I love me some Midrange.

Grim Flayer is so good (when online) but at times is just an underwhelming chump. The right fixture of card types is most certainly key. By the way, you mentioned military duties, I am a Marine, so Semper Fi man

My father is a Marine served dessert storm and what not.

I'm army so same team one fight blue brother.

I've been testing decks to aim on getting and keeping him online. Currently it's been going well but fatal push will scewes the entire Balance of card types. My BUG Flayer went 3-1 last night at FNM. Only loosing to a merfolk player (the type that is putting foils and expeditions in the deck) and his nut draws 2 times in a row.

Bah, Merfolk. That deck is what Vampires wants to be. It is resilient. He drew into his "God Hand." I like your Grim Bug variant. The guy must really like Merfolk to do that. I have a few expeditions, but so far not enough to accommodate my entire landbase!

I don't have the money to but I'd like to eventually expedition my lands out I have a Watery grave atm

Awesome +1

Thanks hamiam.

saturn999 Thanks man!

The deck seems really solid. I do not think that Dark Confidant is necessary because your deck has access to card draw spells already, and adding him would mean cutting out strong cards like Tasigur.

I would throw Damnation into the sideboard and replace it with either another Cryptic or a Countersquall.

Well done overall!

ZackBinks Thanks! I thought that as well, Damnation, but creature strategies will pretty much always exist in Modern. I think youre 100% right about Dark Confidant.

I would agree with that regarding creature synergies, but what about Yaheeni's Expertise, then? Most of your creatures survive that (besides Snapcaster and an unflipped Jace, and assuming Tarmogoyf is big enough to survive it, which he should almost always be) and you could play something like a Liliana off of it for free.

I feel Scavenging Ooze should replace Jace, as it can get big, can gain you life, and helps fight against decks like Dredge and Living End.

ZackBinks I have given that card some thought and I really like it and the idea behind it. On the one hand you can use it, for sweeping certain decks and drop a pretty good permanent to gain some awesome tempo. However, on the other hand, I thought about decks that also like using play sets of Tarmogoyf, or Grixis and their love, for delve creatures such as Gurmag Angler and then thought of all the new Eldrazi builds (Thought-Knot Seer & Reality Smasher) and then it hit me...the probability of which I could potentially have a "dead" card in hand.

This list looks solid. However, I do have a few concerns with it.

Obviously, you've tested with the deck. How has 21 Lands felt? Are you reliably casting Cryptic and Damnation? How often do you get to three Lands on turn three for Liliana? At first blush, the Land count seems a little low.

I'm not sure how good Cryptic is in this list. I mean, the card is incredibly powerful, obviously. But what is it actually doing for you? You seem to want to tap out - or at least low - on your main phase, so you're probably not countering or tapping all that often. Tapping seems especially irrelevant, considering your current removal package.

Mana Leak seems mediocre in this list for similar reasons. Your early game seems to rely on casting things at Sorcery speed, and holding Mana Leak up instead of casting a Jace or Goyf seems terrible. And Mana Leak tends to lose relevance pretty rapidly after the first 3-4 turns, so it seems kind of bad in your list.

Main deck Damnation is another odd choice. Even with Probe and Troll being banned, aggressive, linear strategies will still have some prominence in the meta. Jund-esque lists and Tron also seem to be on the rise, and Damnation is good against none of these strategies. I see it as more of a sideboard card. Of course, your meta could be conducive to having it main.

All that being said, I feel that the positives far outweigh the negatives here. Just wanted to ask a couple questions, and I apologize if you've answered similar ones already. The deck is clearly very popular, and there are quite a few comments I would have to read through.

Thanks!

jlbotbyl I will answer your questions as best I can and thank you, for asking.

First and foremost--I have initially had the deck running at 20 lands, (which was still casting every card in the deck well) in which I then moved up to 21, and then 22, but then back down to 21, for feeling "flooded." The deck does immaculately at casting all of the spells here. I always hit 3 lands and a lot of my games tend to have me at around 5-7 lands (end game). I have to give credit to Thought Scour & Serum Visions as they help me "fix" whatever dilemmas I come across i.e land, removal, and so on.

Allow me to explain the ideal Turn 1/2. T1 play a fetch, crack, play Serum Visions or wait until the opponent passes turn back to you, for an eot Thought Scour. Turn 2, play land, cast Tasigur, the Golden Fang and keep a land open, for Spell Pierce to protect him. Then proceed the game. Spell Pierce is really here for protection and Turn 3 Karn Liberated. I had originally wanted to play Stubborn Denial, and still feel that way, but my friends say otherwise.

Cryptic Command is a house in here. I can see the reason behind your questioning, but I have literally won standstill against Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Wurmcoil Engine, by tapping them to swing in for lethal. The 1x of it is also, for late game. The recursion with Jace, Telepath Unbound  ^Flip & Snapcaster Mage are just an added incentive. With cards like Thought Scour if I get it, I get it, and if I dont--I still have it due to the mentioned blue creatures above.

Damnation has literally won me games against Infect (awkward I know) and beats the hell out of Abzan Midrange. It serves the same purpose as the 1x of C-Command--they do what they do, when needed. The deck goes through it's library looking for answers--and it does it very well.

Mana Leak is something I can see your point on and originally wanted to use Logic Knot in place of, but felt it is really the best I can get, for 2 cmc in Modern. As you can see, there are only 2 Leaks and they are used according to the situation. Sometimes holding a Tarmogoyf in hand to counter a play you know is going to happen--is worth it (IMO). Besides with all the cantrips as opposed to other non based decks, my hand is much fuller than theirs and we play Magic my way sometimes. The deck doesnt really tap out on my turn, but rather during my opponent's turns to waste them. They play a creature, I remove it. They play a spell, I counter it (during their turn).

Like jlbotbyl I was curious how some of your card choices would play out in games, so I tested your deck in 3 pre-board, 2 post-board games against my current project: Marduu Mentor. Here are my take-aways from those games:

All of the games went to 10-14 turns, as both our decks run a lot of permission, so eventually mana screw would even out. Despite that-

1. Your mana base is more fragile than you might think. I was able to take you completely off post-board with Fulminators and Ghost Quarter. Part of the problem here is a mix of too many fast lands and too few basics.

2. Contrary to your experiences with the deck 21 lands felt too low in four of the five games. Even with Serum Visions, you were missing critical turn 3 or turn 4 land drops. Thought Scour is not a land-finding cantrip; it's a yard filler to many delve cheaper and give you more targets for Snapcaster flashback.

You're halfway between Midrange and Control but you don't really have enough of a draw or recursion engine to go long against another control deck. Every single game, my deck was getting more value and card draw even though my only blue spells are Snapcasters. If this holds up against other control decks - and I'm 99% certain it will hold vs Grixis Control - that means you need to be able to switch into a beatdown plan post-board versus these sorts of decks. I haven't tested your deck against Jund but I'm worried this same issue might crop up, but from their resource and card denial rather than because Jund is out-drawing you.

You're in serious trouble versus a resolved 4+ CMC planeswalker. The first test game was an absolute beating after I resolved Chandra, ToD. She's rarely played, it's true, but this makes me wonder if you're soft to Nahiri strategies as well.

Cryptic was okay but half the time I saw it I wished it was Countersquall, another Mana Leak, or even Spell Pierce. One time it was excellent but due to your relatively low land count I wasn't able to set up a Snap+Cryptic flashback to start to turn the corner.

Hope this helps.

Omeros that is interesting. Abzan is more of a deck than Jund is and I do ok against it.

That Mardu shell is nice. I have a Mean Mardu build.

Bringers of Chaos

Modern cplvela0811

SCORE: 23 | 15 COMMENTS | 3605 VIEWS | IN 8 FOLDERS

For me Thought Scour draws me a card, so that alone gives me a better probability of drawing into lands than just drawing per turn. But I do see what you mean. Sometimes it does not do that. Good old Cryptic Command has done me well, but maybe, for more competitive play you are right. It is too slow and constricting on the base at times. Perhaps Countersquall or something else may fill that role. Perhaps Scavenging Ooze.

Against 4 cmc planeswalkers, The deck has has ways around them. Counterspells, Pulse, Snapcaster, Jace. Also, every deck looses and no deck is unbeatable. That is what happens in Magic--I would be a fool to argue otherwise.

Right. Every deck has its blind spots and this may just be one for your BUG list. I figured I'd give my testing feedback since I'm kinda-sorta brewing BUG as well, but since I don't have access to a playset of Goyfs it's more window shopping than a serious plan.

I think if I had to summarize what I was seeing is this: your deck feels like it's halfway between wanting to be a good Midrange shell and halfway between being Control without committing fully to either. If you were running more card draw - say, Ancestral Vision - you might get away with 21 lands more smoothly but I feel like 22-23 is safer if you want to build more controlling. Alternatively, if instead you want to go more on the midrange plan I'd suggest trying out some Grim Flayer in the main instead of Cryptic and... undecided other cards. I highly recommend adding another basic or two, though, as that was a distinct weak spot to the deck in the games I played.

There are a lot of possibilities in BUG once someone finds the right shell. Fatal Push does a lot for you.