You are correct if you cast a spell it is no longer in your hand but instead on the stack so if you choose to discard a card (and are not capable of doing so) you must lose 5 life as the choice of discarding the card is equivalent of an additional casting cost.

Have you thought about Endless Whispers to take advantage of all your removal and lack of creatures? Maybe Smallpox and Phyrexian Arena.

@Draw_Wurm:

Endless Whispers is interesting. It would keep Necroplasm sweeping, but eventually it would sweep back through all the creatures it killed again, making it this 3 turn slow wave where all creatures under 3cmc just change allegiances, giving my opponent periods of extreme board advantage. Also with Knowledge Pool out and some of my instant kill spells in there, the opponent could potentially get their creatures back that way. Just a big mess and Necroplasm is pretty vital against tokens, so I can't really remove it. It's cleaner with Beacon of Unrest and sniping their creatures out of Knowledge Pool.

I've tried Smallpox in this list before. It's an awkward fit with this high of a mana curve. More suited to really low curve control decks like 8-rack.

I'm on the fence with Phyrexian Arena. This deck does benefit from the extra draw power. I'm not sure how it would play out if it was caught in Knowledge Pool. I was fiddling with it when I was trying to get an instant speed discard lock with Nightmare Void (throwing it into the pool on your turn, then on their draw step, playing Darkblast to play Nightmare Void at instant speed, then with Phyrexian Arena I can dredge back Nightmare Void and another copy of Darkblast to repeat it -- ultimately decided Dakmor Salvage + Raven's Crime was better since letting them cast a spell lets me steal it or hurt them.) However it does give my opponent the opportunity to build up enough card advantage to play 2 spells a turn and get something out if I can't get the arena on the field before the pool. Right now Grim Reminder is the biggest double-edged sword in the deck.

Love the deck! Finishing with Necroplasm will be hard because it kills itself... But I love the deck, especially since its budget!

Thanks SirEpic!

It's actually not that hard, but it is a slow death. You just keep casting the lil bugger over and over till more land in the grave. It's about 8 turns for 1 of them to finish off most modern decks. In essence Necroplasm is a 2-for-1 machine drawing out their removal/counters while killing off all their cheap stuff till they are left without resources to play around Painful Quandary.

don't even try with Dash Hopes, unless you're playing burn, the life will always be paid, and you will be down two mana then. removal is better. Black sun's zenith is a way overpowered card. use that instead of death cloud. you should also consider Augur of Skulls for discard and as another regenerator.

thanks Wurmlover!

I was on the fence about Dash Hopes. It doesn't really shut down any strategies. I was mainly just considering it for its similarity to Painful Quandary, but its not as game changing, so I will stop stressing over trying to make room for it. Thank you!

Could you go into more detail why Black Sun's Zenith over Death Cloud? I find sometimes against midrange decks with lots of fatties on the field that for 5 mana I get so much more out of Death Cloud than I do with Black Sun's Zenith as it basically sends us back to turn 3 with empty hands while BSZ only slightly cripples their creatures to a point I can only hope within range of a double Darkblast. Also a tutorable wrath is pretty sweet.

I am not really into Augur of Skulls. I tried him before and ended up replacing him with Spawning Pool to make more room for other spells as I found he too easily died to a bolt the turn he comes out whenever I want him to do something more useful like defend or 2-for-1 the opponent's hand. I like where your head is at though!

I found that with Black Sun's Zenith, that it really helps late game (i'm an 8-rack player though, so i don't have to worry about my own creatures). Death cloud seems like an amped up Smallpox, which i think is a bad card as well. the only reason i choose BSZ over cloud is that it doesn't give them the chance to choose. they can choose expendable creatures to sac, and some might even have death effects, like Voice of Resurgence. maybe put it in the SB since you said it was only really useful against midrange.

BSZ would also have great synergy with Everlasting Torment. also, go with ghost quarter instead of sheets. in matches like tron, dismantling their urza lands can be HUGE in terms of how the game goes.

That's really surprising to hear, Wurmlover, because Smallpox and 8rack go so well together, but I don't know. It sounds like your deck may be a non typical 8 rack for it makes good use of Black Sun's Zenith.

You made some good points about choice of sacrifice. Maybe it is a sideboard card. I was thinking it would be great against Tron also as they don't have many creatures and they will sac all but the Urza lands which I could just break easily with ghost quarter.

I'm keeping both of those lands in there for sure. I just have to tinker with how many of each I can get away with or if I'd have to sub out for less black intensive removal spells.

it seems good but you should cut tainted remedy from the side

also i think Dismember is great for you.

Thank you! I will try cutting it and Haunting Echoes for 2x Death Cloud and swapping 1 of Geth's Verdict & Victim of Night for 2x Dismember

Thank you for the input!

I think you should play Hero's Downfall over Ruinous Path because it's an instant.

@Squirrel_of_War:

Thank you for the suggestion!

I debated Hero's Downfall v Ruinous Path for awhile, but ultimately decided on going with path. Both are only included to deal with planeswalkers but there really is no advantage hitting a planeswalker at instant speed as their abilities will always get on the stack by the time I destroy them. I'd rather have the bonus of a 4/4 in the late game (which can be used to attack more planeswalkers and potentially win the game) than yet another instant to deal with creatures.

What about some hand distruption such as Inquisition of Kozilek or Duress if you want to keep it budget. Also Bloodghast would be pretty nice if you have the funds. Awesome deck! I'm a huge mono black fan.

I have Duress and Nightmare Void already in the side.

Thank you though.

Why not in Duress in the main? Distress or Blackmail are other options.

Short answer:

Duress is not in the main because of how prevalent aggro decks are.

Long answer:

To make effective use of targeted discard I would need to run enough to reliably get one in my first 3 turns which means I would have to run at least 4 copies (optimally 6). Those are valuable spots for kill spells. If I am using the discard spells to remove creature threats, I am better off just running more removal (only exception being ETB triggers) since my opponent is then expending mana to cast (dead) creatures instead of just deciding to cast something else to maintain tempo. If they are holding land or creatures, then I've just spent a card to look at their hand, which Extirpate also does but is uncounterable and removes problematic cards from their deck/hand/graveyard and doesn't require a heavy investment of card spots... or worse they are empty handed and I get to hold onto a spell that I might never get to cast for the rest of the game. They are better off in the side once my opponent tries to play around Painful Quandary game 2 by holding more cards in hand late game and by siding in enchantment/graveyard hate which are predominantly noncreature spells.

As for Distress and Blackmail:

Distress is too expensive in my opinion without the added benefit of Nightmare Void's dredge ability. And Blackmail while great for mid to late game doesn't provide the more valuable full-knowledge of their hand and won't snatch the key cards they want to hang onto consistently. One of the key components of this deck is top-deck value, which is why Nightmare Void gets a spot, as I only need to plop 1 card in the grave or tutor it for repeatable hand disruption for the rest of the game.

I would put some targeted discard (Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek) in there for picking out hate post-sideboard. Surgical Extraction is also great, but Extirpate works fine as a budget option.

Surgical Extraction for your sideboard over extirpate? why not use some removal like Fatal Push? Killing Wave may be an ok boardwipe.

what exactly is the purpose of elixir of immortality? do you need it for life, or do you use it for shuffling back in your yard?

@emrakulinsmugglers:

Elixir of Immortality is in here because why not? There really is no downside to adding 1 extra card that does what elixir does. It compensates for its own statistical downside being the 61st card in the deck, especially with Liliana Vess and her -2.

Actually I'll cut it and see if it makes a big difference or not

cut a BSZ and a Necrogen Mists for another Beseech the Queen and now the deck is at 60

Why no Shrieking Affliction?

@Squirrel_of_War:

Funny thing, I decided at the last moment to not play them in favor of some Geth's Verdict. I was worried about getting blown out by leaning too heavily on the discard strategy and I wanted a maindeck answer to the nahiri-emrakul combo and get potentially get some value out of my removal when I was hellbent with Necrogen Mists.

I also learned 20min before the event that Shrieking Affliction doesn't trigger the way The Rack does when stacking the upkeep discard from Necrogen Mists when the opponent has 2 cards in hand. Maybe that's bad info, but it was a split second decision.

It's a good card no doubt, but personally, I've been shying away from going straight discard and running creatures in lieu of having any copies of Liliana of the Veil or Ensnaring Bridge. It's just more fun to kill creatures than discard cards in my mind (I am not a Spike). Dumb reason, yeah, but all that might change if I choose to include some Waste Not or Asylum Visitor... or it might not if I start including more land destruction. I learned a lot about what this deck can/wants to do and the flexibility of having multiple strategies.