And that is why I come to you for advice buddy, you made valid points and I see your defense and make sense of it. So keeping a inkmoth is a good decision. Now you made a comment about if you needed to add another forest you'd drop a hinterland, but I like those in to be honest just to help the chances of playing mana leak. So looking at the deck list what about the 1 Mountain you have in the deck?? Have there been times where its saved you?? Or have you wished it was a forest before?

The mountain is in there in case a opponent ghost quarters a Crag, or Gorge, or if i have a ghost quarter to ghost quarter a land, search for a mountain. The mountain, has only directly saved me a extremely rare time or two. But it has probably indirectly saved me some times, because without the mountain, there would be times, when I wouldn't be able to search it up into play, and thus wouldn't be able to play a immerwolf, huntmaster, brimstone, chandra,etc, to help set things up, which would then might cause me to lose later on in the game.

Also its ultimately extremely rarely to end up with 1 mountain and and either no green mama sources.

Yes there has been 1 or 2 times when I wished the mountain was a forest, but that's no reason to take the mountain out.

Also look at the mana chart. It's at 60% green mana vs 63% green mana symbols, 29% red mana vs 26% red mana card cost symbols, and 11% blue mana vs 10% blue mana card cost symbols.

If I take out the 1 mountain, that doesn't leave enough for siding in red, maybe not enough for the red in deck.

So 1 mountain works fine. It would be a mistake to take the 1 mountain out.

The mana base is just fine.

I am going to temporarily change the deck to playtest a possible change. I am going to hate doing it. I am going to go with 64 cards, 23 lands, .359% land mana ratio. I am going to hate doing that. But I don't see any other possible way to add 1 more Brimstone Volley, and 1 more forest, and a better land, mana ratio, then its at currently.

If anybody has any suggestions on how to add an extra Brimstone Volley, without jumping to 64 cards, 23 lands, I am all ears. I just don't see how it could be done without messing up the deck. I can't turn a Full Moon's rise, or a moonmist, or Mayor, or a Bird into a Brimstone Volley.

Also altho I would hate going to 64 cards, since it would affect the card draw odds, the werewolf deck that went 4-0 last tourney, had 61,62 cards.

And since this is a semi fast,semi aggro, to semi mid range, semi control werewolf deck, and NOT a hard core fast werewolf deck with a lot of 1 and 2 cmc drops, 64 cards,23 lands, might work.

And I have seen 2 other werewolf decks at 64 cards.

I just don't like it. But I am willing to playtest it.

I am making the changes semi permanent. I still would like to run the deck at 62 cards, if I could, so if anybody has any ideas, on any 1 card, that could be taken out, like 1 less of any 1 card, I am all ears, if it doesn't mess up the deck.

Despite how I don't like having to run the deck at 64 cards, the 64 cards, 23 lands, .359% land, mana ratio, is very good. And having the 3 Brimstone Volleys, instead of 2, is a lot better.

And the deck now truly has answers to almost everything, assuming you can draw them. And that's the ONLY possible weakness with the deck and running as many as 64 cards, instead of 62 cards.

But in playtesting the deck a lot, everything seems to come out almost as often, just fine still.

But despite that if anybody has any ideas, on how to go back down to 62 cards, 22 lands, while still running 3 Brimstone Volleys, and without messing up the deck, I am all ears.

Changed, updated the Deck Breakdown, in the Deck Description.

maybe take out the inkmoth nexus? with only one in the chances of getting it out along with a wolf run are very low

That's true Jellyfish. Thanks for commenting. the kessig + inkmoth alternate win con combo usually doesn't come out until turns 8,9,10,11,12,13.

That may not seem that often. but that combo has won me games lat5e to very late game.

And even if the combo doesn't come out, when inkmoth comes out, I can turn it into a a 1/1, then sac it to activate Garruk's search ability to search for a creature.

Or I can use inkmoth as a chump blocker, against flying, and other creatures.

Also 5 colorless lands, doesn't hurt the mana base that much. I have playtested my mana base a lot, and my mana base is just fine.

But thanks for commenting jellyfish.

I can see why you made that comment

Mike

okay, looks good btw, i have a similar deck check it out please :)

Ok thanks for the comment jellyfish. I will also playtest the deck some more to see if the inkmoth, needs to come out.

Also if you like the deck, and really think it looks good, then please don't forget to +1 the deck, if you want.

Also can you post a link to your deck jellyfish?

I also could just click on your name, to try and find your deck that way.

I posted a werewolf article in the article and challenges forum section, and in my updates section of my deck page here.

The article also has 4 video segments. I am also going to be editing the article.

And so if anybody wants to read the article, it's called:

Werewolf a unofficial, borderline, tier 1 power level deck?

Thanks for viewing my deck, deck page, deck breakdown, charts, article, comments, updates, +1 ing my werewolf deck, help, etc.

It's been greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mike DH

I got a challenge for the new school train of thought, MUST have no more then 60 cards, NO MATTER FREAKING WHAT people, players.

If any of those kind of players, have access to a way like cockatrice, I want them to read, study, my werewolf deck, practice how to play my werewolf deck effectively.

Then I want them to then play my GR 64 card, 23 land deck 35 3 game matches against each of the following 60 card decks like Delver, Zombies, Wolf Run Ramp, Humans, spirits, white weenie, vamps, goblins, rdw,tempered steel, werewolf, mono green, blue black.

that's about 600 games.

I bet if they do that, that my 64 card deck would probably win about 53% of the games played, at the very minimum.

If my 64 card deck doesn't win at least 46% of its games, out of that 600 game sample size. I will publicly say in writing, that a deck must have no more then 60 cards, no matter what.

And if my deck wins at least 53% of its games, then the no more then 60 cards, No Matter whatters, have to publicly say in writing that decks don't have to be no more then 60 cards, no matter what, to be a better, winning, competitive build, deck.

dude.....i swear to god u post way to much and ur posts are waayy to long for pretty much any1 to read so im just skimemd through some to see ur points..i do see youre deck as a pretty good 1...but the arguement of 60 vs 60+X cards is just really plain simple, having less cards gets what u need faster and after reading youre semi rants about it im still not sold on it..

i really do like the use of metamorph here though haha kudos

In GENERAL you are right that 60 cards, is better then anything over 60 cards, and gets what you need faster in GENERAL.

But there are EXCEPTIONS TO that.It doesn't matter if your deck is no more then 60 cards, IF, IF, you don't have the cards to make your deck win more.

And sometimes THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH ROOM, in a 60 card deck for WHAT YOU NEED IN YOUR DECK, for it TO WIN MORE.

IF anybody were to take out any 3 cards, and 1 land out of my 64 card werewolf deck, even if the right perfect choice on what to take out was made,to goto 60 cards, I would lose more.

That's because: 4 Mayors: Needed. 3 Rangers, 3 Metamorph, 3 Immerwolf, 3 Huntmasters, 4 Birds, ALL MUST HAVE NEED.

If go with 2 Brimstone instead of 3, then not enough, won't draw it. If take them out completely: Not enough removal.If go 2 Full Moon's Rise,instead of 3: No have enough to deal with board wipe. If take out the 2 Naturalizes, leaks, then not enough to deal with stuff.If sideboard:then lose Surgical extraction, Traitorous blood.

If take out 2 slagstorm, then no able to board wipe. If Sideboard. Then mess up my sideboard. If take out Green Sun, then no searchy up creatures. If take out Garruk then NO kill creatures, search creatures, create tokens, pump etc.If take out Chandra, the no kill 1/1's no alternate win con, no copying spells.

If played this 64 card werewolf deck, against a 60 card same exact copy of itself, werewolf deck over 1000 games. This 64 card deck would win more, then the 60 card version of itself,deck would. That's because the 60 card deck copy wouldn't have a chandra, or a green sun, or a Garruk, or a slagstorm, or a leak, or Nat, or 1 less Brimstone Volley, or 1 less Full Monn's rise, or 1 less Mayor, 1 less Bird,etc.

Sometimes there are EXCEPTIONS to the no more then 60 cards, general rule of thumb. Saying no more then 60 cards, NO MATTER WHAT, no exceptions, is WRONG.

And my werewolf deck is a exception.

Also the reason why my post are long. Is I don't just state a word, sentence point. I back it up, I explain the logic, thought, reasoning, behind the point.

I could just say the sky is blue, as a stated point. But that doesn't say WHY, the sky is blue.

hmm yes but (sorry if you pointed it out already but i didnt read through comments) Green Sun's Zenith can act as green cards so you effectiviely have 5 huntsmasters right now by insreasing that you could effectively lessen the deck and cut down to 60..itl take a while to find the balance between gsz/creatures but it doesnt take 200 games i assure you..

another thing i noticed about the deck is that its semi everything...semi aggro semi midrange and has a semigood late..the semi everything is good..makes it solid...but being no master of any it can be outclassed by decks purely on 1 side. like ur early against uber fast decks isnt the best ...t.steel would fly over u unless ude block with birds so yeah..just pointing it out..

Vman:

Green Sun,less Huntmaster,creatures: The problem with that is I would offset what creatures I take out with adding more Green Sun, so the card count would still be over 60. If used 4 Green Sun, that would raise the cmc of creatures by 1, which would be slower. Also if I don't draw a Green Sun, then I would have 17,18 creatures, which would not be enough.

I might be able to remove a card somewhere, and get the deck down to 62,61 cards, without messing up the deck. But there is no way I am going to get the deck down to 60 cards, without messing up deck, and losing ANSWERS, PUMP, REMOVAL, etc, which would cause me to lose more.

The reason why the deck is good,semi great at semi everything, is because that's what werewolves are. The problems with the werewolf tribe, is it wants to be aggro and midrange, and the flip mechanic, that slows down tempo, and is susceptible to removal, has a hard time dealing with nasty threats.

If you try to make werewolves super fast aggro, then even if you put in 4 1 cmc waifs, 4 1 cmc Captives, 4 1 cmc Young Wolfs, 4 2 cmc Mayors, 4 3 cmc immerwolfs, 4 2 cmc scorned villagers. 4 3 cmc Daybreak Rangers, they are still not fast enough, because of tempo loss, because of flipping. And they run out of steam, and cant beat mid range ramp, like wolf run.

If you try to make werewolves mid range, then they usually can't go toe to toe with midrange's bigger creatures, and they lose to aggro decks

Werewolf is a semi aggro to semi mid range tribe. The trick to making them effective at that, and to deal with ALL the PROBLEMS the tribe faces, is GAME CONTROL, ANSWERS. PUMP, REMOVAL, PROTECTION, RAMP, LOW CMC, PUMPED CREATURE ADVANTAGE(PUMPED TOKENS)SEARCH,TUTOR ADVANTAGE,ETC.

It might seem like that the deck being good,great, but not the master at all it does, will get outclassed by decks like tempered steel, or wolf run, or pure control decks. But that's not the case.

The deck has LOTS OF ANSWERS. 2 MB slagstorm, 2 SB B. Acts, kills aggro. 3 MB Metamorph, 3 Brimstone, 2 to 4 mana leaks, 3 tunnel Ignus, 2 traitorous bloods, 2 B. Acts. PUMP, shuts down wolf run ramp, mid range decks

MY deck does well vs Delver, Zombies, Wolf Run Ramp, Vamps, Goblins, RDW, Tempered Steel. Jury is out on white weenie, humans, spirits, because every time I play white, the other player gets ultimate Christmas draws, like 4 champions out by,on turns 2,3. But even when that happens I usually just barely lose to their ultimate Christmas draws.

Now I am going to show a example of why my werewolf deck does just fine vs superfast aggro.

Assuming that I don't get killed on turn 3,4 by a great draw, I am on a 4,5,6 turn clock, to either win by, on turn 4,5,6 or stall,delay the other player past turn 5, or I lose.

Turn 1: I play a bird. Turn 2: Mayor.

Turn 3: Full Moon's Rise, Moonmist, put out wolf token, or pass turn flip, Brimstone a creature.

Turn 4. Metamorph Copy Mayor, for 2 wolf tokens at end step, or play a mayor and a moonmist(if didn't play 1 last turn), or if played 2 mayors during turn 3, pass turn flip either leak tempered Steel, or Naturalize Tempered steel, or Brimstone a creature. Or if no pass turn flip, and if played a Full Moon's rise turn 3, then slagstorm, board wipe, sac,pop full moon's rise, regen mayor.

Turn 5: If have 6 mana, then Slagstorm, or B. Act Board wipe, and if have 3 mana left over, play metamorph, or Daybreak Ranger. If 2 mana left over, play another mayor. If already board wiped last turn, or if have no slagstorm, or B. Act this turn, then Huntmaster, and create another wolf token. If play Huntmaster, even if it flips werewolves back, Naturalize a Tempered steel if didn't do so last turn. Get 2 wolf tokens at end step.

Game should be stalled enough to get a turn 6, and should be at about 3 to 8 life.

Turn 6. should, must board wipe now, if able to, if didn't before. Naturalize a tempered steel if there is 1 out there, and if have a naturalize. Play a Daybreak ranger, or a immerwolf, or a mayor, or a Huntmaster, or a Garruk, to either kill a creature, or put a wolf token out. Or a Chandra, or Brimstone a creature. Or pass turn, flip Daybreak Rnager, flip Hunmaster, kill a creature with Huntmaster. Nightfall predator kill a creature. Brimstone Kill a creature. Get 2 more wolf tokens at end step.

that should be game over for tempered steel by,on turns 6.7.

The 3 game match should have T. Steel winning game 1 about 59 to 69% of the time, because only have 2 slagstorm MB. Games 2,3 should be won by werewolf 63 to 73% of the time, because of the 2 B Acts, sided in to go with the 2 MB slagstorms, 2 more Leaks sided in, 2 more naturalizes, sided in.

Werewolf should beat Tempered Steel 2-1 on average.

Now against mid range, I get out 1,2 mayors, 1,2 immerwolfs, 1 Metamorph copy of mayor, or Immerwolf, 1 Daybreak Ranger(it flips into a PUMP 7/7, that kills opponents big creatures), 1,2 Full Moon's Rise.

I hold 1 Metamorph, 1 Traitorous blood, 1 mana leak, 1 naturalize, 1 Brimstome, B.Act in reserve to deal with things like titans, worm coil, Norn, Blight Steel, Geist of St Traft, indestructibles, hexproof, shroud.

I use removal to stop birds, elves, Mana leak to stop Viridian Emisary and Solemn Simulacrum. I Mana leak Rampant Growth, mulches, I play Tunnel Ignus to either slow down land ramping, or to make them take 3 damage per extra land they play.

I pump up my werewolves BIG. ALL that is usually enough to beat most mid ramp decks.

Altho Blue,Black,white, Green, 4 color reanimator, wolf run ramp, combo decks, that ramp, put creatures in graveyard, thru mulch, trackers instinct,and then reanimate Inferno Titan, Norn out, turns 2,3 still gives my deck(and probably almost every deck)fits, problems.

I know that Grafdigger cage can shut that deck down. and that the deck has consistency problems what with 4 colors. But usually I can't get Grafdigger cage out fast enough, and can't mmana leak fast enough, to stop that deck from Inferno Titan, Norning me turns 2,3,4.

But oh well, can't beat em all.

ive played with t.steel in almost every single fast variant...from cfb hawkward to gavony to bw to bw infect to slightly slower builds..ur looking at it wrong..

u have 3 moonmist in a 64 card deck.. so lets just assume you werent that you have the luck of an average player and didnt draw it..but brimstone.

so its

your Turn 1: you play a bird.

t.steel t.1 =

lets go senerio 1 lets just say u daybreaked...

t.steel t3= tap opal tap x2 plains play namesake Tempered Steel swing blindly with everything

u block Memnite with daybreak and pest with bird

you:dead

me: 20

senario 2, you brimstone pest (which is not a bad play)

t.steel t3= tap opal tap x2 plains play namesake Tempered Steel swing blindly with everything

you block memnite with a birdstill 9 damage so

you:deadme:20

now why would t.steel be so lucky and you not? haha i assure you its very common for t.steel to win like that of similar if the opponent has no t3 answer

game 2 your probably gonna side in more wrath cards but t.steel is prepared, especially uw hawkward.. key examples are

Origin SpellbombGlint Hawk IdolMoorland HauntInkmoth Nexusand against slagstorm theres always Etched Champion which according to rules does not die to slag)

against exxesive artifact hate t.steel decks have adapted too

most decks tend to have an extra land +Hero of Bladehold in sb..some have more non artifact creatures too depending on deck..

some tsteel decks have adapted to waste there t3 or t4 (depending on matchup) on a Mana Leak in hand theyd save their creatures from boardwipe....idk what kind of decks uve been playtesting against but maybe you should reconsider your steel matchup bro...

NOTE:im not hating on youre deck, im just trying to point things out i do enjoy helping everybody improve there decks at stuff they cant see as they help me with my decks..

i like the idea of Tunnel Ignus in sb btw...seems unexpected haha

Your scenario is a win by turn 3,4 scenario. Usually T steel gives you a 5 turn clock, if you go first. If you go second,its a 4 turn clock.

Also things that do not target, bypass protection. Slagstorm does not target, therefore it bypasses Etched Champion's protection. But even if it didn't, big deal about about a etched champion.

T steel has 3,4 memnites, and 3,4 signal pest, and 3,4 Opals. T steel usually doesn't get a working opal out until turn 2,3. Turn 2(if have 4 opals), turn 3(if have 3 opals)

T Steel usually doesnt dispatch turn 2, and doesn't dispatch, or O ring, until turn 3, at the earliest, and sometimes not until turn 4.

Also signal pest, and tempered steel are usually what I use my removal, leak, naturalize on. As long as I deal with Pest, and Steel, then all the many 1/1 creatures T Steel puts out fast, isn't going to hurt me as bad.

Also I am not saying this is a easy match up. Most of the time, I am going to lose game 1, of a 3 game match. 49 to 59% of the time I am going to just barely win 2-1 in a down to the wire, match vs T steel.

The only way that's not happening, is if either I have a bad draw, or make a mistake, or T steel has a great draw.

T steel is a tough match up. There is no room for errors, bad draws,etc. But I can go toe to toe, have a competitive match up against T Steel.

And in the broader picture of a tournament, where not everybody is going to be playing T steel, and only a couple few are going to play it. If I end up matched against T steel in a tourney, then I have a decent,ok, semi good chance to walk away with the match win, vs T steel, en route to going 2-1, 2-2, 3-2, 3-1, 4-2, 4-1, 5-2, 5-1, vs the field, in a tourney.

And when if I sometimes lose vs T steel, I at least had,has, have a decent, ok, semi good chance to win.

lol what kinda t.steel list u playing against but try vsing cfb's list its quite tough...

t.steel usualy autos 4 Memnite and 4 Signal Pest and a ton of artifacts especially game 1.... so a t1 working opal is verryyyy easy to achieve

about Slagstorm if you read the text carefully it deals damage to each creature...not all creatures take 3 damageso it actually cannot bypass protection.. and it does make a big deal actuaLLY...this card can block all day and swing through your defences like a boss...a 2/2 w/0 t.steel is nothing to laugh at either..

on Dispatch t.steel players would use it whenever needed, if theres mana for it and a potential threat, a good player would always remove it and end the game ASAP

other removal would include Dismember and sb o-rings

on the t.steel clock...

if your versing a slow-ish version with Blade Splicer and stuff its usually 5 turn

most versions who spam Vault Skirge Signal Pest Memnite and Glint Hawks give you a 3-4 turn clock with good hands can win in t3

versions with red can have the most devestating god hand which barely happens but does sometimes...itsa t2 win with Rally the Peasants

about getting rid of steel and pests...

heres why 60 card decks have A upper hand here

the deck has 4 steels and 4 pests, while you have 2 leaks and 2 naturalizes g1 which are really your only solid answer

so its 8 vs 4 which mean ull run out..and lets not 4get steel also has other threats like champ..

but you already siad u usually lose g1

g2 as i said they tend to sb in non artifacts like hero which makes it harder for ur artifact hate too... so maybe its the unexperienced players youre against or the deck they have but hoenstly i dont think ur t.stee matchup is ur win..just an honest opinion from a t.steel vet.

Vman:

I do get, and appreciate that your not hating on my deck, and that you are only trying to help out my deck.And it seems like you do like the answers, solutions, tricks, gimmicks, techs, in the deck.

I was just explaining that what you thought could be a problem in the deck being semi good to good at almost everything, and not a master at all those thing, is not really a a problem, or as big a problem as you thought, or think.

And I am not saying my deck is perfect. A problem I see with my deck, is that I seemingly can't seem to draw what I need sometimes. Now whether that's a problem, or whether that's like how it's normal to sometimes not be able to draw what you need, I don't know.

I do know that it's not from 64 cards. As I have had that problem when the deck was at 61 cards.

Even though it may be normal, and not a problem to not be able to draw 1 of 4 naturalizes, 1 of 4 mana leaks, 1 of 3 Brimstones, 1 of 3 Metamorphs, 1 of 2 traitorous bloods, etc, to stop, shut down Mirran Crusader, swords, it is a semi problem nonetheless.

And the only way I can see to fix that, is with 2 Diabolic Tutor,(which I can't add, even if it fit my color scheme, because its 4 cmc, and not enough room.), and 2 Hunters Insight(which would only work if I do damage, and can't find room for it), and 2 faithless looting(can't find room for), and 2 Viridian Reveler(no room, plus wouldn't be able to get rid of enough artifacts), 2 Garruk Hunters(3 green to hard to cast out, 5 cmc, to slow), 2 of the werewolves that draw when does damage(not better then my other werewolves).

Now it would be great to either add card draw, or tutors. It would be great if I could find room for them. It would be great to take my deck down to 62 cards, if doing so wouldn't hurt my deck.

So do you see 1 or 2 cards that I could take out that wouldn't hurt the deck, by causing the deck to lose answers,needed cards,etc?

And if you do see a way to do that, do you see a way to then add in 2,3 tutors, card draw cards? Because 64 cards with 2,3 tutor, card draw cards, to help overcome having 64 cards, would be better then it is now.

Also I do and have taken advice from many. So I appreciate your comments, suggestions, advice, etc.

Thanks

Mike

Vman

T steel's clock: Slowerish: if go second, its 4 turns, if go first, its 5 turns. faster: It's 4 turns whether go 1st or 2nd, unless up against a semi christmas good,semi great draw, then its 3 turn clock, if go second, 4 turn clock if go 1st.

only the fastest T steel deck ever made, will have a 3 turn clock if go 2nd, and a 3,4 turn clock if go 1st. And only the fastest T steel deck ever made, plus a ultimate Christmas draw, will have a 2 turn clock if go 2nd, and a 3 turn clock, if go 1st.

Your scenario's are BEST CASE, and are based on semi Christmas, good, semi great draws, which are not going to happen most of the time.

Why do you think most players are not playing tempered steel as much as the other decks. It's because other decks have answers for T steel, and T steel runs out of steam.

T steel is just not as awesome as you make it out to be.

But I am not saying T Steel is bad. T steel is a tier 1.85 semi rogue,good, great,tough deck. especially against some decks, like my werewolf deck.

That said, T steel is a TOUGH match up for my deck. I never said it was easy. I never said I win all the time against it.

Winning somewhere between about 47 to 57% of the time, and just barely winning 2-1, when I do win the 47 to 57% of the time I do win vs T steel is not easy. Its a TOUGH match up. Also I don't think I have ever won 2-0 vs T steel, with any of my decks. Maybe once due to opponent having a bad draw.

Also it's not just 2 naturalizes, and 2 Leaks. I have 4 naturalizes, 4 Mana Leaks, 4 Board wipers(2 slags, 2 B. Acts)

T steel is a TOUGH match up for my deck. But I don't play them often in a tourney, and when if I do play 1, I have a ok, at least about a 46% chance at minimum to win the match 2-1.

And that's fine with me.

Going to temporarily experiment playtest turning 1 Bird, and 1 mayor into 2 Instigator Gang.

I don't think it will work, because 1 less bird, means Daybreak Ranger, immerwolf would come out less often on turn 2, and Huntmaster and instigator Gang wouldn't come out out as often on turn 3.

And Mayor wouldn't come out as often.

And sideboarding would be harder as well, because would lose at least 1 sideboard out slot.

But maybe, just barely maybe Green Sun just barely maybe might make it so that birds, and mayors would still come out just barely often enough.

So I am going to playtest to see if that happens, I just don't think it will.

But since Instigator Gang, is a at least a semi core card, at the very least, and since I want to have as many core cards, in my deck as possible, then I am going to try to see if I can fit Instigator in.

I just don't think I can.

And I don't think it will work.

I just got to thinking about this after I did the article, where I said that a werewolf deck, should have almost all, as many of the core werewolf cards, as possible, in a werewolf deck.

So that's why I am temporarily trying this.

Ok after playtesting the the temporary change into 2 instigator Gangs, I found that with 2 Instigator Gangs, it either didn't come out often early enough, or didn't come out until turns 5,6,7. And when it dose come out, it will probably get removed. And if it does get removed, I am not going to be able to get another 1 out. And if I run 3 Instigator Gangs, it would mess things up, and I would have to many 4 cmc cards in my opening hand.

I also don't like how the ave cmc for the deck goes up, and how it makes it questionable if i would have enough red mana, if after sideboarding in more red cards from the sideboard.

And when I sideboard out the birds, or the Mayors, that they also don't come out enough games 2,3 of a 3 game match. And thus I can't side out birds, and Mayors. Thus I lose 2 more sideboard out slots.

The Birds, and Mayors still come out often enough, game 1, and or if I don't side any of them out games 2,3.

And the Instigator Gang, works well vs Mirran Crusader, swords, and Elesh Norn.

But those things are the only things that are good, and that's if Instigator doesn't get removed.

And I still don't like how I can't Green Sun out Instigator Gang.

And I still don't like how slow Instigator Gang, can be, altho it's great when it comes out on turn 3, which doesn't happen hardly ever.

But despite that, it's a close call. I don't think turning 1 bird, 1 Mayor, into 2 Instigator Gang's works.

But its a close enough call, that I could see how it might,maybe,could be ok for others to change the 1 bird, and 1 Mayor, into 2 Instigator Gangs, to run instigator Gang.

Really would have been nice if they had made Instigator Gang,3 colorless 1 green, or 2 colorless, 2 green, or at least 2 colorless, and 1 green, 1 red, gold card, so that it could have been searched into play by Green Sun.

Would have been nice if they had made Kruin Outlaw 2 colorless 1 red, or 1 colorless, 2 green, or 1 colorless 1 green, 1 red, gold card.

Not doing that, was a mistake.

Added Instigator Gang, and Kruin Outlaw to Meta Maybe Switch board, so that if everybody starts running mirran crusader, and elesh norn, I can switch in 2 Instigator Gangs, and 2 Kruin Outlaws, between tourneys, to counter that.

i personally like kruin outlaw especially with birds because i haven't had a problem with the double red, and the double strike is amazing with the evasion,which he also gives all werewolves that's why i prefer him over daybreak ranger.