Haha my creatures are all dragons to maximize the discount from the Ur-dragon. I have plenty of ramp that I play on curve where Dragonspeaker Shaman/Dragonlord's Servant would be. And in any case my cost-efficient dragon suite makes them unnecessary (if you don't believe it, try playtesting a few rounds!)
The average CMC of my entire dragon suite is 4.25 (with the Ur-dragon discount). That's all 24 dragons including the big 7-8 CMC ones that are the top-end threats. It goes down to 3.74 (with the Ur-dragon discount) after you take away the 5 dragons with CMC>6. Given the ramp its not uncommon to untap with 4 mana on turn 3 to start casting dragons!
September 19, 2017 11:32 a.m.
Neat list. Birthing Pod is an interesting addition that I'd never considered for Ur-Dragon.
Given that you have Survival, Pod, Greater Good and Bazaar, have you considered running Unburial Rites? It does a decent impression of a D Tutor that puts the card directly in to play here. But you have enough ways to dig and tutor that maybe it's not good enough.
October 12, 2017 12:15 p.m.
Thus far my strategy is to get a critical threshold of dragons in the deck (27 right now) so that I can keep drawing and casting dragons instead of needing to reanimate them. I have considered Unburial Ritesbefore, but just don't know what to cut for it right now (maybe Serum Visions?). My current recursion suite either gives me repeated uses (Palace Siege and Volrath's Stronghold) or gives blowouts (Patriarch's Bidding with Dragonlord Kolaghan or Scourge of Valkas in the GY). Bladewing the Risen was included mainly for nostalgia, but is actually quite useful in Pod chains. Pod away a 6-drop to get Bladewing the Risen, which reanimates a dragon. Next turn you can pod away Bladewing to get Utvara Hellkite!
Demonic Tutor and Seasons Past combo to give me a recursion engine late game (Tutor for Seasons Past, which recurs the tutor). Bring to Lightreally ties up the whole package!
October 13, 2017 1:36 p.m.
For sure the recursion options in the deck are nice. I feel like if it cost 1 mana less, Rites would be amazing. But at the current price, it's frequently not cheaper than just picking up a dragon with Siege and recasting it. It's one of those "worth considering if something else in the deck ends up really underperforming" cards, but I agree that it's really borderline.
I'd never seen Patriarch's Bidding before seeing this list. Rise from the Dark Realms mixed with Creeping Renaissance for 5 CMC is sweet.
Is it viable to run Sarkhan Unbroken here? I feel like it's only any good in this list if you can ultimate him though. Probably too clunky for a list this tight.
October 13, 2017 2:42 p.m.
Sarkhan Unbroken's is certainly viable, card draw and dragon production is definitely good - i just don't know what i would cut for it ><. If i were to play a planes walker I'd probably go with Sarkhan the Mad though.
October 15, 2017 1:31 a.m.
Skyship Stalker would be my cut choice. Its base stats aren't great and it's really red-intensive for 5C to make it much of a threat. Seems like you'll usually have things to do with your mana as well. You could make a similar argument for Harbinger of the Hunt, but I think the utility of that card makes it the better keep.
Sarkhan the Mad is one of my pet favorite planeswalkers, and is also a good choice. His downside relative to Unbroken is that he's basically dead on an empty board (sure he can draw a card, but if he doesn't die immediately, he'll get poked down right after). On the plus side, he can just kill someone on entrance, which Unbroken takes a few turns to get to.
October 15, 2017 11:14 a.m.
Haha I'll certainly test out if replacing Skyship Stalker with the two Sarkhan PWs we've been talking about! Thus far Skyship Stalker is a filler dragon that can be played for 3 mana. As of now its just a decently-sized dragon body to help trigger the effects in the "DragonAttack!!!" category of cards :P
October 16, 2017 1:21 a.m.
CinnaToastKrunch says... #9
have you thought about Eldritch Evolution? and maybe even Dragonlord Dromoka, maybe even Dragonlord Ojutai who is my all time favorite. I myself have an Ur Dragon deck and love using the dragonlords
October 18, 2017 4:32 p.m.
Those are all great suggestions, except for Dragonlord Ojutai who is already in my list! (He's under the draw category :P)
Eldritch Evolution is a great tutor, however I have found (thus far) that I have no pressing need to search for specific dragons in my deck. I've found draw to be a more important requirement. As for Dragonlord Dromoka, I like the effect but I'm not sure which of the dragons to cut. Will have to play more and see!
October 19, 2017 1:13 a.m.
maybe try the 8 tri-tap lands? just a suggestion, and if you dont know them they are Arcane Sanctum Seaside Citadel Jungle Shrine Crumbling Necropolis Savage Lands Mystic Monastery Nomad Outpost Sandsteppe Citadel Opulent Palace Frontier Bivouac
May 1, 2018 10:55 a.m.
Haha thanks but those aren't necessary, I run the full set of fetches and shocklands so colour-fixing isn't a big deal :) My deck runs a very aggressive curve so I try to cut down on CIPT lands as much as possible!
May 1, 2018 11:46 a.m.
Isn't Recollect just strictly worse than Regrowth? Another option that might be worth considering is Noxious Revival. The latter is top of library rather than hand, but being free and instant speed can be pretty useful.
May 9, 2018 2:24 a.m.
@Reverie42: I must have mixed up Recollect and Regrowth whilst searching for the effect, ended up buying the inferior version. I have not considered Noxious Revival before, the pros and cons between it vs Regrowth are compelling! I will replace Recollect with either one of your suggestions for sure, thank you very much for chiming in!
May 9, 2018 2:59 a.m.
why not use a Cultivate Instead of, or with, the Rampant Growth... I mean sure its 3 mana instead of 2 but you also get 2 more mana in return instead of 1
May 9, 2018 11:53 a.m.
@Rudy315: All my ramp choices cost 2 or less so that I can maximize the chance of playing them on T2. This is so that assuming I hit 3 land drops in a row I can get 4 mana on T3 to start casting 5CMC dragons and unleashing them on my opponents! Most of my dragon force cost 5 mana or less with the Ur-dragon discount so the deck can actually operate reasonably well with just 5 mana sources out.
May 9, 2018 1:06 p.m.
WhatevWorks says... #17
So... this is coming from a hardcore blue mage who tries to abuse cards as much as possible.
I think you could have a pretty sweet chain reaction thing going on here. Ur-Dragon lets you get out permanents whenever a Dragon attacks, so maybe you could go for a weird aggro-y, storm-y, combo-y thing. I don't know. Just look at these cards and this game plan, tell me what you think.
The game plan would be to durdle for the early game, play dragons mid game, then late game, come out of nowhere with a lethal-damage chain reaction: Play permanents that draw based on you attacking, and creatures that give mana based on attacking. You would proceed to attack, get draw triggers from things like Edric, Spymaster of Trest, mana triggers from things like Savage Ventmaw, and an Ur-Dragon trigger. Play a permanent that gives extra combat phases, activate it. Repeat from the part where you attack. This list would inevitably have a few ways to go infinite (Savage Ventmaw + Aggravated Assault = good game), but that wouldn't happen a lot. Mainly you would just be attacking 3 times a turn for lethal damage from your commander alone.
I don't know your budget or playstyle, but those are my thoughts. I'd love to hear what you think!
October 13, 2018 3:20 a.m.
@WhatevWorks: Haha those cards would not be a good fit for my gameplan as I don't intend to durdle in the early game! This deck aims to step up the pressure from the get-go. If there are more than three opponents it tends to get difficult bringing life totals down. There is a decent amount of card draw so that I can keep playing dragons each turn to keep the damage piling on. With the tarkir legendary dragons (those that say "whenever a dragon you control attacks..") as well as cards like Scourge of the Throne, Utvara Hellkite, Kessig Wolf Run,Xenagod.. a huge blowout can come out of nowhere!
October 14, 2018 11:06 a.m.
the__odysseus says... #19
Birthing Pod to cheat some of your bigger dragons? Dragonlord's Servant and Dragonspeaker Shaman
October 27, 2018 11:57 a.m.
@the__odysseus: Thanks for dropping by! The deck already runs Birthing Pod, agreed its a great way to tutor for and cheat out the bigger dragons. The cost reducers I found were not really needed, the deck ramps up to 4-5mana quite easily which covers close to all the dragons I run! (with the eminence discount applied of course)
October 27, 2018 12:37 p.m.
the__odysseus says... #21
Sorry, didn't see you had birthing pod. I was looking through the enchantments for some reason...
October 27, 2018 12:53 p.m.
A combo you might look at is Sarkhan Unbroken and Lathliss, Dragon Queen empty your library of dragons and get a token for each dragon that comes out.
November 13, 2018 2:16 a.m.
@Guyvas: Haha Sarkhan Unbroken is certainly under consideration, though mainly as a means to draw cards or produce dragon tokens. My playgroup certainly is fast enough so that I will probably never get to use the ultimate.
NV_1980 says... #1
Dragonspeaker Shaman and Dragonlord's Servant could do well in this deck.
September 19, 2017 6:27 a.m.