[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 140 | 186 COMMENTS | 18769 VIEWS | IN 63 FOLDERS
The MVP of game two was Linvala, Keeper of Silence. He had an incredibly explosive start and probably would have killed me by turn six or so, except that on turn three I played Linvala with Giada, right after he had played Llanowar Tribe, which was now a cute 3/3 with no other powers. Even so he was able to play Omnath, Locus of Mana, store some mana, cast his commander, and be a couple of points away from a lethal play with some other synergies he had, but Linvala held him down long enough for my growing angel army to chip away his life total to zero.
On the third game the shoe was on the other foot from the first one, and he didn't have the acceleration he needed to put up a threat to my quickly goldfishing angelic armada. Lacking key removal spells, he three a ten power Nessian Boar at me in order to kill my best pieces of his choice and to draw a ton of cards. I responded at instant speed with a Swords to Plowshares, preserved my board, and swept in the next turn to knock him down to two life. He wasn't able to recover and the game was done.
This was a particularly helpful play session in highlighting the power of some key cards like Soul Warden, Bishop of Wings, Archangel of Thune, and Linvala, Keeper of Silence, as well as the importance of having the right amount of good, premium, white removal in hand, which made a big difference in the outcome of the second and third games. The only card I didn't care for in one of the games was Mirror Entity, which confirms its likely cutting from the deck in the next update. I hope these game reports are helpful to the community as you build your decks!
May 11, 2022 1:19 p.m.
Glad to see that the deck is working out well so far! It seems like it runs similarly enough to my Rule 0 Serra the Benevolent deck, so I know how the satisfaction from playing it must feel!
I did have another recommendation, though. While scrolling through cards for my WIP Isshin deck, I came across Herald of the Host. It's Myriad attack trigger will drop an angel token tapped and attacking EACH opponent. The tokens may die at the end of combat, but the counters that they'll add with Giada could be a massive tempo swing!
May 11, 2022 2:52 p.m.
KBK7101 I had thought about that card! I think my main argument against it was competition in the slot and the fact that my opponents will likely remove it before I have fun with it (since it doesn't have haste), but it could be amazing, so I'll definitely keep it in mind!
May 11, 2022 3:29 p.m.
PinnedPhoenix says... #5
hi! love the deck. honestly really impressed with how low you've kept the avg. CMC, considering it's an Angels deck. great job!
cards to consider, I'm positive you already know 'em: Mana Crypt, Moat, and Smothering Tithe. I know they're all stupid expensive; you can find really good proxies on Etsy!
proxies are controversial, and I used to refuse to grab them on principle. but honestly, we shouldn't let playing great, fun cards become a class privilege. that, to me, is more against the spirit of the game than grabbing a piece of "fake" cardboard. I would seriously consider proxying a few of the cards that are over-the-top expensive, but I totally understand if that's off the table!
May 11, 2022 7:17 p.m.
Thanks for the encouragement I am glad you like the deck! I tried to be disciplined while making it. Splashy cards that spam out a lot of angel tokens are powerful, but low cmc angels seem to be the way to go wide fast.
All of those are good suggestions, so I can add them to the maybe-board. I'd certainly love to have a copy of Moat if for no other reason than it is fun and iconic! I certainly wouldn't question Mana Crypt either. I personally agree with you about paywalls in magic, and I think the reserve list in particular is a great evil because it locks people out of playing some fun old cards. I want as many people to play magic as want to, and I think these people keep certain demographics out of the format, which is sad. I don't personally have any issue with proxies as such for especially expensive cards, especially those on the reserve list, and would allow those in a group I am playing in. The reason I don't do it myself is simply because I want to play my decks anywhere, and someone could definitely object, resulting in me either not playing the deck or having to switch cards out on the fly, which is inconvenient. As such I don't even proxy cards I own to have more copies just because I don't want to hassle with it, but I have no issue with anyone I play with doing so!
As for Smothering Tithe, I actually own three copies of that card which I purchased when it was under five dollars, so my exclusion of that card is a bit more intentional, though I wouldn't question anyone else who wanted to play it! My theory on tithe is that it is best in slower, more controlling decks that amass value and win with big splashy plays or combos. I've tried it in other aggressive decks like this and found it was just too slow for the playstyle. With Giada being the optimal turn two play most of the time the earliest we could play tither here is turn four, which is when we want to begin gold-fishing and playing key draw or support pieces. Tapping out to play tithe would slow that process down quite a bit, and we don't really need the amount of mana it provides in this deck. I also like tithe in blue decks with counterspells to protect key pieces, because it can be removal bait, and if someone removes it before we've made at least four tokens we come out at a loss. It's amazing in my Teysa, Orzhov Scion and Aminatou, the Fateshifter decks but I'm not sure if it fits ideally in Giada, but I could be wrong!
May 11, 2022 8:15 p.m.
You can have a Moat for pretty cheap, though. Magus of the Moat does the same thing but is a creature. It might fit in really well here, too!
May 11, 2022 8:27 p.m.
Just a heads up that I'll have a bunch of updates coming over the next couple of days. I'll likely get the new cards today and post an updated list with final adds, cuts, and rationale by tomorrow. I've already been updating the list as I make changes in real time, but I'll summarize all the changes I've made to the deck in one place then. I'll also forecast some things I am thinking about for the second major update. I likely will also have some more gameplay reports then. I also plan on updating the primer, and have some new things planned for it as well. Thanks for everyone's engagement in the process! It was pretty cool to be the top deck on the forum overall yesterday and today. Thanks so much for the support!
May 13, 2022 8:41 a.m.
May 13, 2022 5:11 p.m.
1) Burnished Hart OUT Pearl Medallion IN
Hart is a great card, and research suggests it's one of the winningest cards in EDH, so naturally in a monowhite deck that a land ramp piece like this would seem to be great. I think the issue for it here is it just isn't fast enough for the deck. Giada doesn't need to ramp a lot to be relevant, and in testing I've found that we often have something more urgent to do cast it initially or sac it to get the lands. It's still a great card, but likely better suited to more controlling decks. What is amazing in this deck, however, are cards that discount creature spells like Herald's Horn, as we can use them to more easily put out multiple pieces in a turn at discount. Making your four drops three drops is incredible acceleration that suits our gameplan just fine. And Medallion does this not just for our creature spells, but any spell in white. It's fabulous!
2) Cosmos Elixir OUT Vanquisher's Banner IN
Elixir is theoretically a good card in this deck as it can draw cards off life-gain or gain life. The problem is it never does both, it draws one extra card per turn at most, and costs 4 mana for the privilege. It's equivalent card would be Sigarda's Splendor, but that always gains us life, and is simply based on not having lost life from the last noted turn, which is more reliable. Banner costs more, but its floor is replacing every angel we cast with a card, and its ceiling is drawing several cards in a turn, so it's better all around. The anthem is just gravy.
3) Welcoming Vampire OUT Mask of Memory IN
While a fabulous card, Giada's ability ensures that we won't draw cards with angels off of vampire. It will definitely find a home in a new deck. Mask of Memory, however, is great. It costs two and equips for one, meaning an easy early line of play would be to cast it turn three, attack it to Giada, and get an engine going. We get to draw two cards and then discard the one in our hand we need least, which allows us to be up a card while moving through the deck to what we need. Sometimes we might even discard a good card only to recur it with another later, so there are lots of nice little possibilities with this one.
4) Mirror Entity OUT Sanctuary Warden IN
So far we've replaced subpar draw with better draw, but no we are upping our count. I've never like entity, but I thought it might be better here since Giada gives it counters that make it more resilient when not being pumped. Still though, like all changelings, its an angel that doesn't fly, which is wicked annoying. Moreover, while its ability is a powerhouse with 1/1 tokens which can be turned to 4 power with 4 mana, it's not so great when the average power of an angel is already 3/3 or 4/4. It will weaken some of your angels, and where it improve them it takes a monstrous amount of mana to do so. Finally, while one might be tempted to add Reveillark to complete the combo with entity and Karmic Guide, we have to remember that Giada shuts entity off from killing the board, effectively shutting down the combo. It's just bad, trust me. This is where a lot of online deck tech's fail. They just throw it in because its an "angel" and a generically good card without thinking through the consequences! Meanwhile, while costly Sanctuary Warden is an absolute powerhouse. It immediately replaces itself, and can draw cards more cards this way for free by being blinked with Sword of Hearth and Home. It's an engine that draws us cards every turn, and we can use our plentiful supply of +1/+1 counters to power it, leaving the shield counters to protect it from most removal and board wipes. It's an all-star card.
5) Plains OUT Tome of Legends IN
I'm hoping I don't regret going down to 35 lands, but I think the deck can sustain it, especially when we are upping the draw. Tome is an amazingly good and underrated card. It can net us an extra card the turn we cast it, and can draw one every turn as long as we attack with out commmander, something that isn't too hard to do here. Keep in mind, Giada has vigilance, so even if we want to tap her to cast an angel we can always do so on our second main phase! The best part of this card is that it costs only two mana, allowing us often to ramp it out turn three with another angel or put it out early with another two drop. It's been great in other decks and I expect no less here!
6) Archaeomancer's Map OUT Eye of Vecna IN
This might be a more controversial cut, but I don't think I need the ramp map theoretically provides, and it can be a tricky card to play here. Ideally you'd want to get this down turn three, in order to ramp lands based upon your opponent's turns, but you'll have to discard if you do unless you played a one drop turn one. It's not as great late game, and the ramp is conditional based on having the extra land in hand and not missing a land drop, which can happen without enough draw. Eye immediately replaces itself and draws one card every turn for the low cost of 2 life, which we aren't worried about at all here. The only downside is that Angel of Jubilation shuts it down, but that is a narrow enough case that it isn't worth not playing a 2cmc draw spell over.
7) Disenchant OUT Together Forever IN
We have plenty of removal and I think we can afford to cut our least relevant piece. Together Forever is amazing, cheap, efficient protection for our entire board, including Giada. It can save our stuff from being destroyed by removal or damage, and has value as repeatable single-target protection and board wipe protection. I expect this to be an all-star piece.
8) Desert of the True and Drifting Meadow OUT War Room and Bonders' Enclave IN
I hated these cycling lands in early testing because they are just not worth having the lands come into play tapped. War Room and Enclave actually draw us cards, and come into play untapped. Sure, 4 mana is a lot for a single card, but there are times we will be happy for it, and in a monocolored deck the colorless nature isn't too much of a drawback.
9) 2x Plains OUT Emergence Zone and Seraph Sanctuary IN
Why not attack lifegain to a land? Sanctuary is just an obvious card for this build that I somehow missed the first time around. Zone is a deeply underrated card that allows you once in a game to get the jump on your opponents by becoming a one turn Vedalken Orrery. The element of surprise is what often wins you games in aggressive decks, and this card allows for that!
So that's the first update! I'll have updates to the primer coming later today or tomorrow. Hope this helps all of you as you build and play the deck!
May 14, 2022 8:53 a.m.
sean360 I have considered it! It is a strong card and certainly can stay under consideration. I would appreciate anyone who can testify to how it's performed in their decks so far. My general thoughts on this are this. It's ceiling is super high, because if it gets left untouched we can recur stuff at least once per time around the table (more if Archaeomancer's Map or a similar effect allows us to play additional lands, or if one of our swords/dagger ramps one out. For this reason opponents would be forced to remove it, because if they don't we can just recur any creatures they destroy. The floor is we can't take advantage of it before it gets destroyed, and at 7cmc it is at the high end of our curve. It is of course, the same cmc as Bruna, the Fading Light Meld and is a recursion piece with a much higher ceiling, but the fun and possibility of Brisela, Voice of Nightmares Meld Meld, as well as the fact that we can tutor it, means that we keep that one on the board. It could be a replacement for Karmic Guide, because in this deck we generally want to keep out angels, and guide's echo cost is not something we usually want to pay, but often will, making its cost more over the long term. It'll definitely be on my maybe-board and I will eventually try it out, but for those of you with experience with the card I'd love to hear how it is working for you.
May 16, 2022 9:16 a.m.
I played the deck a few times this weekend and had a lot of fun! When I can draw enough cards the deck can really hold its own, but frequently I was outdrawn and it was hard to keep up with everyone else at the table. Well of lost dreams was great for this purpose, I found even with such limited card draw Thorough Investigation as a very heavy mana investment.
I am playing with proxies until I am sure I want to invest in a real paper deck, I am going to try and swap in Esper Sentinel, Smuggler's Share, and Smothering Tithe. I might try swapping Karmic Guide for Emeria Shepherd as well, will let you know how it goes!
May 16, 2022 11:40 a.m.
sean360 Thanks for the helpful update! I definitely found it running out of gas earlier as well, which is why I added five more sources of card draw in the recent update, and swapped out some subpar ones I had for better ones. I'll definitely update how I see it working. I'm also considering an incredibly controversial card in the form of Armageddon. Some might be opposed to this, but I feel like with the imbalance green and blue have in terms of ramp and raw, white should be able to use the tools we have to keep up and eliminate unfair advantages. I think we can more quickly rebuild with our curve, and there is of course the nasty combo with Cosmic Intervention to consider. I'm a little conflicted about dipping into the dark side of the social contract, but it still seems fair to me. Nonetheless, I am undecided.
May 16, 2022 11:49 a.m.
Just a brief announcement, but I am beginning to update the primer from the original draft. To avoid wasting anyone's time, I am flagging sections that I update with "Update" and "New" tags so those who've read it before only need to look to the changes. The section I've updated for now are the potential recruits. I'll soon update game-phase sections, and am also planning two or three new sections which I will label once I've completed them.
May 16, 2022 4:44 p.m.
Might want to consider Irregular Cohort as it gives you two angelic bodies in one spell. Cosmos Elixir can help with both card draw and life gain. Pretty tight deck I know, but a couple thins to consider...
May 17, 2022 3:39 p.m.
Hi Phule451! Thanks for the suggestions, encouragement, and comment and welcome to the conversation! I actually had Cosmos Elixir in the deck until the most recent update. It synergizes well and I have a beautiful foil full-art copy, but at 4cmc it's high for a draw piece and it came down to cutting this or Sigarda's Splendor and I chose to keep the latter for now. That being said, it is a good card, and it could go back in if I miss it. I can definitely consider Irregular Cohort and two bodies are good- I think my general thing about changelings is that they don't fly, which is why I generally prefer actual angels, though I could change my mind. At this phase we're working with a new commander and I am trying to be as open-minded as possible! If you play the deck and try it out, definitely let us know how you like it as it will help us all going forward!
May 17, 2022 11:09 p.m.
decidingtoast says... #18
If your deck is puking out tokens on the regular, might I recommend Idol of Oblivion? It's more efficient and less painful than Eye of Vecna, and it's probably more consistent than Tome of Legends. Also, I noticed that your maybe section has Faceless Haven. If you're considering that, Mutavault is probably also worth consideration I think.
May 18, 2022 1:30 a.m.
Hi decidingtoast! Thanks for the comments and suggestions! Idol of Oblivion is a great card in a token deck. Nonetheless, while we make angel tokens as much as is reasonable, we only do so in the most efficient ways, and I think tying draw to token generation will result in inconsistent draw. This ties into a misconception about the deck. I think some builds online that I've seen really try to go out on tokens. While free tokens are indeed great with Giada since she pumps them, she doesn't really incentivize them over cast angels. Since angel tokens are big and fly, game design makes them more difficult to generate, and if we leaned more into this theme we'd be committing a lot of mana to it and would be slowing down the deck quite a bit. Instead we really only play Angelic Accord effects where we get free angel tokens from our life gain, which synergizes with both the angel piece of our theme and the life-gain aspects of the deck. I've only recently added Eye of Vecna so the jury is still out, but its not even close to painful due to our life gain, and is unconditional and consistent, even if we do have to pay each time, which is the downside of the card. Nonetheless paying for our cards is a thing in white, and at least with Eye since its an upkeep trigger we'll always have the mana to pay if we want to (whereas if we gain life with Dawn of Hope out after tapping out it won't do us much good, since we won't be able to pay the ). Tome of Legends, on the other hand, is a card I have a lot of experience of and is nothing short of amazing. Since Giada flys and has vigilance we can usually attack with her every turn, and can then tap her to cast more angels during our second main phase, meaning we'll always have the counters to power it and will basically get one card for every turn, which is a great rate.
As for Faceless Haven, the reason this card is a consideration for the deck is because of a wacky combo with Snow-Covered Plains and The Book of Exalted Deeds. Basically if we make a haven a creature, we can then sac the book to put a divinity counter on it. At the end of turn it will revert to being a land but will keep the counter, basically meaning we have a land version of Platinum Angel. Since land destruction is less common this will be a major barrier to our opponents winning the game by any means, which gives us time to destroy them. Committing to Snow-Covered Plains is also seen as beneficial because for decks running Extraplanar Lens Snow Plains are seen as beneficial since they don't help your opponents. Both the book and Faceless Haven are tutorable with Search for Glory, which can help with putting this together.
There really isn't much of an argument against running this combo, and Mutavault would make it more consistent, so that's a good call! So far I haven't quite felt committed enough to pick up the set of snow plains and these cards, but having two ways to do it could push me over the edge. I'll definitely put Mutavault on the maybe board.
May 18, 2022 8:47 a.m.
I know The Ozolith has been recomended but I would look at Resourceful Defense It will let you save your counters ANY counters and/or move them to another creature.
May 19, 2022 5:20 a.m.
Quick update! We have a new card from the upcoming Commander Legends that will pretty much be an auto-include in the deck. It isn't in TO's card database yet, but Battle Angels of Tyr will be a value engine we need. It's like Herald of the Host for one fewer mana that will also draw cards and make treasure tokens (and maybe even gain life, though that isn't likely in this deck). The fact we can drop it turn three here consistently is insane and, of course, it will pack a punch as well. Just wanted everyone to be aware!
May 19, 2022 9:37 a.m.
Hi Doc_Hoss! Thanks so much for the comment and suggestions! Several players out there are experimenting with counter shenanigans with The Ozolith and Resourceful Defense. I'm definitely open to considering playing them, but my initial assessment is a bit bearish. The prospects of playing them are potentially saving our counters from board-wipes, being able to re-distribute them for maximalist or more precise damage when we are dealing with blockers or attacking multiple opponents, and the possibility of commander damage kills with Giada by stacking all of our counters on her. For the first issue, I'd rather devote a card slot to saving my board from the wipe than protecting the counters. I also think that stacking many if not all counters on a single permanent makes it a target for removal. This is less of a problem with Resourceful Defense than The Ozolith since we can just put them on a land which is less likely to be targeted, but I see The Ozolith consistently getting destroyed when it is most painful to our gameplan. I think re-distributing counters will probably be too inconsistent to be worth it when we already have evasive creatures. I also think that doing it intentionally requires a blink subtheme that we don't have room to support here without watering down the deck's main gameplan. Putting counters on Giada is the best argument since commander damage can be a good "surprise" win con, but in general I'd think it safer to just focus on doing what the deck does well, which is goldfishing with angels. That being said, I could be wrong and there could be something I'm missing, so I'm keeping an open mind. I also know that even if these cards end up not being optimal some deck-builders may want to play them as sort of "twist" cards that opponents may not see coming, and that is a valid approach as well. In this case though I think that you are correct in saying that Resourceful Defense is superior The Ozolith in that you can move counters intentionally as opposed to having to adopt a blink and wait approach.
May 19, 2022 12:35 p.m.
Battle Angels of Tyr looks amazing. This deck was the first one I thought of when I saw the spoiler yesterday. Totally grabbing one for my Serra deck and it's gonna work out great here, too!
May 19, 2022 1:18 p.m.
Guerric I was going to let you know about Battle Angels of Tyr but you are on top of it!
I have been experimenting with different cards in the deck and I am very happy with Inspiring Overseer. Any reason it didn't make your list?
May 19, 2022 3:12 p.m.
sean360 I do have Inspiring Overseer and it is on my list to try. It obviously is very good in concert with Sword of Hearth and Home where it can be a draw engine, could also draw us cards if we blink it with Angel of Condemnation and could net us an extra card when recurred. On the low end it is a three-drop which is great and replaces itself. I think I just picked other three-drops that I thought were more impactful, but I might swap it our for either a two drop or a five plus drop. Are there any particular experiences with it or synergies that have worked well?
Guerric says... #1
Cyb3rguerrill0 I have a lovely FTV Foil Entreat the Angels and it was in my original draft of the deck, but I cut it before the final list for space. It would be better if I had some topdeck manipulation and could feasibly cast it for the miracle cost often. I judged Starnheim Unleashed the better card, but I'd prefer to play both. I'll probably try it out soon though. I do think the upside of these cards is as finishers, even if they can just be used on the low end as a over-costed angel "creature" cards. I do suppose the upside of white never being a card draw monster could be that casting it for the miracle cost would be more normal. In this case such would be an especially good play with Crashing Drawbridge out.
May 11, 2022 9:28 a.m.