[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 140 | 186 COMMENTS | 18769 VIEWS | IN 63 FOLDERS
While I get the non-flying aspect I'd still highly recommend Irregular Cohort as with your commander out it gives you a 3/3 and a 4/4 for four that then boost any other angels you play by +2/+2. And since so many of your attackers are in the air, Darksteel Mutation is a great way to remove a problematic threat.
May 20, 2022 10:20 a.m.
Hi all! Just a quick update. I've made the first major pass on the deck and should have some gameplay reports on it next week. I also plan on adding some new sections to the primer. In particular I want to take a bit of time to discuss the deck archetype and philosophy. I'll also add a section on options for different budgets, a section on cards I don't think are great for the deck, and a section of cards that I'm not playing but which others might want to! The first and last sections are unique to this primer, but I think they will give deeper understanding into the deck's design and gameplan that will help with card selection and good choices during play.
May 20, 2022 11:40 p.m.
Love the deck. Working on my own brew right now. Myriad seems pretty good with Giada's ability which makes Herald of the Host and Battle Angels of Tyr great options.
May 21, 2022 12:28 p.m.
jybuckeyeThanks for the encouragement! While I'm not running Herald of the Host at the moment I do have it and it would be good, even if it is removal bait. Battle Angels of Tyr will be an auto-include and I've already ordered it! It will replace Emeria Angel in the list once it releases.
Phule451 I do think you make a valid point, and I am going to published a revised assessment of changelings in the deck soon. Stay Tuned!
I'm also hoping to slide Inspiring Overseer into the deck and to up my angel count by one. I'll have to cut a support piece for it, so I'll figure out which one is the best one to go.
May 21, 2022 3:35 p.m.
That being said, some helpful pushback and discussion here are leading me to qualify my thoughts that there are some changelings which can be good in this deck and be correct play options, so I wanted to talk about which ones and why.
The first of these and the clear strongest option is Metallic Mimic. The reason for this is because it is a 2 drop "angel" that anthems every other angel you cast by increasing the number of counters that are put on it. This is amazing because unlike a Thraben Watcher whose anthem leaves the battlefield when it is removed, the extra counters will remain unless a board wipe happens. Regardless of whether I end up playing this card or not I think it is probably "correct" to play it in an optimal list.
The second of these cards is Irregular Cohort. Phule451 made a good point that this card is a two-for-one that we can cast turn three consistently. If we cast it then from turn four on we are putting at least three counters on everything, which is pretty great. Two-for-ones are great for goldfishing and provide efficiency, so this does that. There are still some downsides to this card since the angels don't fly and as four cmc is the slot where we need to get more choosy since there is more competition for slots, but I think it is a valid and very playable choice in this deck.
The third card is the weakest but is still playable and that is Universal Automaton. The "sole" reason for this is that it costs solely to cast it, and there is only one other angel we get for that rate. Again, low cmc angels don't have to do as much to justify their slot in this deck- cmc is almost good enough on it's own!
Any of the above cards can be "correct" to play in this deck, so if you want to play them, by all means do! All of that being said, I don't think that I personally will be playing any of these cards for two main reasons. The first of these is pretty much what I said before about the flying piece, but perhaps I should elaborate more. I have a lot of experience playing flyer decks across multiple formats in magic and it's something I have a strong feel for. When I've had non-flyers in decks that are built around flying, they've always felt bad, and I've wished they weren't in my deck every time. This already happened to me with Mirror Entity in this deck, and I don't want to really have much of a desire to experiment with them more. The only card I could maybe see myself playing is Metallic Mimic, but if I did play that card it would take the place of a support piece and not an angel, and I would justify it by considering it a support piece and not take a slot from an angel proper. The other reason I don't see myself playing these is more about flavor. This is an angels deck, and I want to play big flying angels with cool art, not creepy shapeshifters masquerading as the real thing. Changelings may be considered angels mechanically, but they also are not truly angels, and it feels wrong for the angel tribe in particular. I love some of the changelings I play in my Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow deck because it seems like ninjas and changelings go together perfectly, but not so much here. Of course, this latter reason is entirely subjective, and in general I try to build my decks as optimally as possible, but where it doesn't hurt the deck's strategy I like to keep my decks as flavorful as possible as that makes it more fun in my book! That being said, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade who likes these cards and prefers them to other angels, as I think they are all playable here. I hope this helps some of you as you plan and play the deck!
May 23, 2022 7 p.m.
The first is to not underrate vigilance, which a turn three Thraben Watcher gave to me for the whole of the second game. Some players have rated it as a junk ability, but it's strong when you give it to everyone, and we have several cards that do that. Even before Angelic Skirmisher got me to over 100 life in the second game I was pretty unattackable throughout because of my angelic attacker/defenders.
I also got to play Eye of Vecna for the first time and thought it was great. It immediately replaces itself, and you always have the option to pay the to draw the card since it comes right after untap. It sort of becomes like a Phyrexian Arena that we pay for with mana instead of life loss, which we'll take because we are in white. In the first game I had the mother of all draw cards in Well of Lost Dreams in my hand, but I could never find the free mana to cast it because I was under a clock to put my opponent away. I still think Well is incredibly good, but it makes me nervous about Vanquisher's Banner and reminds me of the importance of low cmc draw pieces.
I also did not like Secret Rendezvous, and will probably replace it with Rogue's Gloves before I play this again. This isn't because I am a detractor from Rendezvous generally, it a less aggressive deck it would be a good political card and welcome white draw piece. It is pretty hard to give cards to anyone in this deck where you will definitely be viewed as a threat. I'm surprised I haven't played Rogue's Gloves earlier. Once equipped it just gets us a free card every turn, and that's what we need. As good equipment becomes more and more relevant here, it makes me wonder if it might not be worth adding Steelshaper's Gift to the deck. At some point I am going to do a tutoring pass on the deck, and that card will be high on the list.
I've also pretty much planned for awhile to replace Eerie Interlude with Guardian of Faith. Interlude doesn't bring your counters back when you use it to save yourself from a boardwipe, whereas Guadian does, making it a superior card in that instance. Nonetheless, in this game I used Interlude to save my Angelic Skirmisher from targeted removal, which felt really good. As I continue to ponder this change it is helpful to remember that while interlude is worse in terms of board wipe protection it is better in terms of having utility to re-order counters if Giada is out, replay ETB creatures, or just protect from targeted removal.
In both games the engine set up well, I was a constant threat, and in the first game he only barely overcame me in the end with some lucky draws and really strong play sequencing. I was excited to play the deck against that friend, who is definitely the strongest player in my play group. As I plan further refining and revisions, I will definitely be prioritizing lowering the cmc of support pieces to two or three cmc as much as possible as I think that is key to success.
May 25, 2022 12:37 p.m.
Guerric A new Baldur's Gate angel card just got spoiled, Wind Shaping Planetar. Looks like an instant include in this deck!
May 26, 2022 8:52 a.m.
Dawn of Hope OUT Rogue's Gloves IN
I don't think Rendezvous is a terrible card, but you need to be in a more controlling color where you are not the threat at the perk is using it politically. Gloves are great, and are a second albeit inferior copy of Mask of Memory. We'll gladly take it though. Once we've equipped it it's pretty much a free card every turn from then on out.
Endless Atlas OUT Steelshaper's Gift IN
I thought this would assuredly be the deck where the atlas, which has been endlessly sitting in my binder since I got that Commander 2014 precon, would be good. I've got to play it a bit and I don't like it. We have to spend four mana before we get a card, and then we're paying every time, and still will never get more than one per turn, something which isn't necessarily the case with Dawn of Hope. So why not just have a one mana card which can get either of my great draw equipment, or one of my fabulous swords? I'll never be disappointed in this card, and it's great to have in my opening hand.
Mass Calcify OUT Harsh Mercy IN
Calcify is good here, but 7 mana is hard to come by. Three is much better. These cards are otherwise very similar in that they leave all of our stuff intact while hosing our opponents' boards. They are more likely to get to keep their best thing with this card, but we'll take it.
May 29, 2022 12:02 a.m.
I have been playtesting the deck and making my own edits, it's a lot of fun! If you're interested I can write up my edited deck list. One thing I have noticed is that since there isn't an overabundance of reach or flying at my table, Giada is a beacon for removal, with me having to cast her upwards of 4 or 5 times. I am contemplating a few cards like Commander's Plate or maybe a few like Ephemerate but the decklist is so fine tuned it's hard to figure out what I would take out for these effects. I played a few games this weekend, the last one was against a nasty Kynaios and Tyro control deck, a Chatterfang aristocrats deck, and Tovolar Dire Overlord. I just barely managed to win in the end thanks to Together Forever letting me save the same few angels from back to back board wipes.
Unsurprisingly, Avacyn, Angel of Hope is a a slam dunk. Eye of Vecna has been excellent card draw, while Thorough Investigation has been lacking. Inspiring Overseer has been a great way to draw a card while developing the board. Might try adding Angel of the Dire Hour just because it's a fun card I've never had the right deck for. Interested to see your updates going forward!
June 6, 2022 12:57 p.m.
Nice build mate! I've been testing this build: https://manabox.app/decks/JqRqmO8_R2OCWlPpG-Bf0A
It works very nicely, even in pretty high powered games. I need to play it more first though to give it some more thought on the cards that need to go out/in.
June 13, 2022 5:51 p.m.
Posted the deck too on TappedOut: Sample's Giada Tribal Angels
June 13, 2022 6:12 p.m.
Vivipotence says... #15
Hey Guerric, thank you for all you extensive primers, they are fun to read. I read most of them multiple times - the way they are structured really helps me to analyze the mechanics of my own decks.
A have a couple of cards that I can recommend, depending on your meta and budget. You will be familiar with them but maybe some of your readers aren't.
I had a Shadowspear lying around so I put it in. It does a good job as it gives your largest beater the important livelink feat and can be tutored with Steelshaper's Gift. In many case the swords will be higher priority targets Steelshaper but still I found Shadowspear to be beneficial to the consistency of this part of the deck's mechanic. It's low CMC and while it's activated ability is just the icing it sometimes can be tremendously helpful. I killed a voltron player the other night with it. It can even be used politically. Angel tribal wins largely by simply turning things sideways. Apart from the nice Brisela almost-wincon I'd like to add one or two additional surprises for our opponents.
Akroma's Will is amazing in this deck as it will make our heavy hitters unblockable and provide them with a bouquet of great other features. Giving all our 5/5s, 6/6s and 7/7s double strike and lifelink can often make this a real wincon and the fact that it's instant speed can even save our hides if we're being attacked by a seemingly overwhelming opponent.
Now I never got my hands on the beauty that is Avacyn, Angel of Hope. However, I drew a candidate for the 8CMC slot that I find even more fun and fitting. Legion Loyalty is absolutely bonkers with this commander. If you have a couple of angels including Giada out and maybe still two or three opponents online, this card will immediately make such an impact that the expression "explosive turn" doesn't even begin to describe it. Way over 100 damage in a single attack can easily be achieved with four angels and three opponents. Also enjoy 10 minutes of fun counting all the tokens and counters that are being generated during your attack phase. Now of course this is an enchantment and will not benefit from (tribal) cost reducing effects (apart from Pearl Medallion). It thus would be a completely meta dependent decision to include this in this deck. If most of your friends despise blue and you can be reasonably sure that you'll be able to successfully hardcast an 8CMC enchantment this will lead to some very memorable wins. Also Avacyn, Angel of Hope straight-up does nothing the round you cast it. It makes your board state more robust (not against Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge, though) but mono W needs the additional aggressiveness more than another protection piece imho.
Last but not least: In one of your gameplay reports you mention being killed by a combo. In my playgroup there also is always at least one player who tries to kill you with an infinite damage combo. I regularily encounter Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Toralf, God of Fury Flip, Gray Merchant of Asphodel and so on. This is one of the reasons I put a Blessed Sanctuary in. At 5CMC it's on the more expensive side manawise, sure. However, this deck is quite robust when it comes to fending off attacking creatures and not so much when it comes to defending itself against the various forms of direct damage that red and black (combo) decks employ. Blessed Sanctuary completely shuts those wincons off. Also it steadily provides you with 2/2s you can use as additional blockers. They do not synergize with angels, sadly, but they have another amazing quality: They are frickin unicorns! When your board is filled with pompous angels and cuddly unicorns while the other decks on the table seem to take themselves too seriously with all the grim art you can't help but chuckle a bit. It just looks so over the top cheesy and dreamy
June 14, 2022 2:41 p.m.
Hi everyone! Sorry I haven't written in a couple of weeks. I was out of town scoring AP Exams and have been super busy, but I'm on summer break now and should have plenty of time to post updates, gameplay reports, etc. I'll respond to all comments shortly, and will do some more major updates to the primer aa well.
June 15, 2022 3:34 p.m.
Hi all! I'm getting back into the swing of things as I'm back from all of my intense AP Reading stuff and am playing again. I have another gameplay report, some updates, and some other thoughts related to the deck partly inspired by some player comments and questions here. Before I get to that however I want to respond to everyone I hadn't had a chance to yet!
The must-play card from Baldur's gate is Battle Angels of Tyr, which has already replaced Emeria Angel in my deck. Beyond that it's creating a headache for me with my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck since there are so many more dragons to consider, but I haven't seen a ton more for Giada.
Glad you're enjoying the deck! You can totally write it up and link it here if you'd like! The more resources, the better for us all! As far as protection goes, Commander's Plate is a good choice, as protection is so much better than we think it's going to be. Ephemerate not so much unless we have a blink theme because of the one-off, situational nature of the card. I'd also add that, in my experience, we don't need to worry too much if she dies a couple of times. At 2cmc we can recast her a few times no problem, and smart opponents will not feel it's not worth it when there will be more immediate threats on the board, or will not want to target her when she has already put some massive threats out. They killed her four times the other night, and when they ran out of removal I put out a massive flight of angels to kill them out in almost a single turn! I'd agree on Eye of Vecna being really good draw. Less so on Thorough Investigation; it's rather Dawn of Hope that always manages to be just not that great for me, though time will tell on this all. I'm trying to get Inspiring Overseer back in as it seems good. I have Angel of the Dire Hour in my binder too and just want to warn that it is a trap card. We'll almost never hold open seven mana to use it, so most of the time it will be an otherwise vanilla 5/4 flyer for 7 which is just terrible. If she were 4cmc, then she would definitely be played!
Thanks for the compliment, comment, and upvote! I upvoted your deck too. Feel free to let us know how it goes and share any insights you have from play!
Thanks for the compliment, comment, and upvotes! I am glad you are enjoying the deck, as I have been! As far as cards go, I can definitely see the case for Shadowspear. It does fit the curve and gives us life-link, and if there are Sigarda players or other annoying things like that in your meta it could me a good choice for dealing with that as well. Akroma's Will also probably belongs, for thematic reasons as much as anything. It would be a good replacement for Eerie Interlude, though I have another plan for replacing that card currently. Legion Loyalty does sound like fun and I'd recommend it for more Timmy-minded Giada players. At 8cmc I'm personally not willing to risk it, but that's just me! I can see some ridiculous "I win!" plays with a card like that from time to time! Blessed Sanctuary does sound like fun, and my unicorn/alicorn/pony loving daughters would probably appreciate it very much! That being said, it doesn't do much to help us with life loss combos or infinite attacker/attack step combos, which are pretty common out there, and as such is pretty narrow on those grounds. I play a lot of combo myself in other decks, and my top deck on tappedout is my Inalla, Archmage Ritualist deck which is about the most degenerate combo deck outside of cEDH imaginable. So, my tip from the dark lord about dealing with combos is that the best way to deal with them is to kill the combo player, destroy the combo pieces, or call out the combo pieces so someone else with removal can help us destroy them. That being said, unicorns are fun and flavorful, and if your meta has lots of ping-type infinite combos I could see it as a good meta choice in those circumstances!
June 23, 2022 11:52 p.m.
Yeah, I think I mentioned this somewhere, but obviously you should run it if you have it. I do have it but it's in my planeswalker deck where it is more critical to saving my walkers from attacks and such. I do plan to replace Eerie Interlude with Guardian of Faith as a practical equivalent for this deck. That being said, by all means play it! Thanks for the comment!
June 24, 2022 10:56 a.m.
SalsaCondor says... #20
What do you think about the The Immortal Sun and True Conviction?
June 27, 2022 9 p.m.
Any reason to not include fetch lands fetching Plains? The loss of life is pretty insignificant in this deck due to life gain cards and it would somewhat thin the deck which I think is also beneficial here.
Anyway, thanks for the deck list and the primer!
July 22, 2022 4:35 p.m.
Forceofnature1 says... #22
Oh my! What a fun deck this is!! I recently acquired a shiny version of Giada and figured since I put down Kaalia a while ago I would have some angels to spare. I even found a quasi jank list and started compiling support from cards I had sitting around.
Then I looked at it and realized it had little synergy (and no soul sisters). I clicked on your deck and wow synergy galore and my favorite sisters!
I read through your primer and you make very good points. Going to make some changes to incorporate your engines and pair down my support spells to make room for tiny angel squad! Also, Crashing Drawbridge works so well here, practically and thematically!
I am going to be playing against a 5 color slivers deck in a few weeks, which was one of the biggest catalysts for me moving ahead with Angel tribal. I figured the lifegain and flying bodies will make a good matchup.. I am just trying to figure out if I should slot in more removal. Thoughts on how this runs 1 v 1 against an aggressive deck?
September 19, 2022 4:10 p.m.
Hi everyone! Sorry that I've been AWOL for a few weeks. I'm a teacher who also works part-time at a college and school has started, so my schedule went crazy for a few weeks. I definitely plan on responding to all comments and I have a few more gameplay reports as well. I also am going to sell a deck I don't care to invest in any more and grab a few more staples for this deck. More to come soon!
September 24, 2022 9:04 a.m.
I just wanted to respond to a few comments. Thanks for your patience!
True Conviction is a bit of a pet card for me, and I play it in a lot of decks, so its certainly a good suggestion. It's one of those cards that's always better than you expect it to be. The argument against it is that it is mana-intensive to cast and doesn't stick around too long as it is a target for removal. The weakness in this argument is that in decks where it is good you don't need it to stick around. As long as you can resolve it with a decent board, it will most of the time turn the course of the game and sometimes finish other players out of nowhere. It is a great card. I don't run it here because I have angels which do similar things. Sigarda's Vanguard, Lyra Dawnbringer, and Angelic Skirmisher do similar things while also being able to attack themselves and otherwise pump our team. In this deck we need as many angels as possible because we need to goldfish, and that limits our slots for enchantments that don't contribute to this theme. As such, I'm not playing it here, but those who are lacking some of the above angels may wish to. It's certainly good, I just feel in my case I need more synergy.
The Immortal Sun is, in my estimation, a pretty overrated card for most decks. It is at it's best as a hate card against super-friends decks which provides other benefits, so if that's a major thing in one's meta it is certainly worth considering. Aside from that, it does provide substantial benefits of course, serving as premium ramp, card draw, and an anthem to boot. That being said, doing too many things is not really an asset for a 6cmc card. It doesn't do any of these things at the point in the game where we need them (which is well before turn 6), and if we resolve it later, it will likely be removed before it can give us much benefit, leading to wasted turns. Compare that with True Conviction, which can immediately change the course of the game the turn it is cast, even if it is removed afterwards. I thought the card was cool when it first spoiled and I do have a former student who won a tournament because he used it to shut down and Atraxa player, but aside from cases where we are up against a powerful super-friends strategy and are fortunate enough to draw it, I think it just doesn't do enough at the time we need it to do the things it does.
You're welcome! Thanks for the kind words! You certainly can feel free to put fetch lands in. As you said, they would thin the deck. Even better would be to play lots of them with Crucible of Worlds and get all of your lands out! I just personally don't want to invest in fetch lands for that purpose in part because I don't want to spend the money on them and partly because philosophically I don't like playing off-color fetch lands in any deck, even though it currently still remains legal. That being said, if you want to, by all means do it! It will make the deck more powerful, particularly with Crucible.
I'm glad you are enjoying the deck! Too many lists for a deck like this tend to be good-stuff angels, or follow generic deckbuilding guidance that is misapplied here. Synergy is always the way to make a deck more powerful and consistent, and its actually even more important in aggressive decks than in control and combo decks.
In 1v1 I'm not sure this deck has ever lost. It's just very fast, and is hard for only a single opponent to keep under control. I had a colleague play it against me 1v1 while I piloted my best control-combo deck and I lost. As regards removal, if it's one specific deck you have in mind to destroy I can't comment with any authority without playing against that specific deck. I can give some general advice here, however, and that is that you don't want to play as much removal as you think you do. In general the pundits at the command zone would recommend somewhere around 10-12 pieces of targeted removal generally speaking, and by being in mono-white we have access to some of the best removal cards in the history of the game. This might lead us to believe that we should go all out here, but those same pundits would remind us that these are general guidelines don't apply to every deck, and that the deck's overall strategy needs to be weighed in. Though I am a control-combo player at heart I have built many successful aggressive decks here, and played elves pretty extensively in modern, and I can say that in good aggro decks we just can't afford to play too much removal. In order to win and remain viable we need to be able to goldfish very fast while also devoting a lot of space to hoarding cards and other resources to rebuild when we get blown out and play new threats when our current ones get removed. We just don't have the space to put in a lot of removal- if we make said space we'll run out of gas or options. Never forget that one of the best forms of removal is player removal. If we're worried about someone combo-ing off we'll kill them, and our other opponents will thank us for it. We also are happy to let them share some of the burden of removal. If someone is about to win with a combo and we don't have removal but an opponent does, they will certainly use it! We already are helping them out by having the target on our backs much of the time, so it is time for them to do their part. That's not to say that we won't remove things, and the best removal cards in white are indeed in this list! We just have to be willing to have a bit less than other decks since we have other means of dealing with opponents, and since we can't afford to sacrifice resources for more.
Tsukimi says... #1
Guerric I only played a few games with it but it worked really nicely with the mana curve of the deck, having it it my opening hand was a boon and the combo of drawing a card and casting an angel turn 3 allowed me to keep up with the other three players who were ramping/drawing cards early in the game. Most of our other card draw is pretty slow so casting an angel and drawing a card for 3 mana felt good, even if you can't repeat the effect like you can with our other card draw. Having this and Sword of Hearth and Home out would be the dream.
The competition for three drops in this deck is tough, they're all strong. I swapped out Angel of Vitality becuase I would rather have card draw than life gain, even if it means a smaller body.
May 20, 2022 9:21 a.m.