[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 140 | 186 COMMENTS | 18770 VIEWS | IN 63 FOLDERS
That's definitely a good testament to the utility of Breathkeeper Seraph even without the pyre. And it makes sense to not play Giada turn 2 sometimes, but those should be matchup dependent and you called that well. Oblation is an underrated and often forgotten card, but its great removal in white decks that aren't also in black, and helps with graveyard strategies and the like. In rare situations you can even use it on your own thing if you really need the cards, which I've occasionally done in token decks.
December 12, 2022 10:07 a.m.
As I continue to ponder the Breathkeeper Seraph/Pyre of Heroes combo, I think I am leaning towards putting it in the deck. This change would almost certainly accompany swapping Steelshaper's Gift for Enlightened Tutor, though I'll probably wait till the latter is reprinted in order to do that. While the combo itself is what draws a lot of people, this deck works very well without it, and it would be a mistake to build the deck around it. That being said, the utility offered by both pieces even on their own is worthwhile. The pyre is just a great utility tutor in its own, and one of the few ways we can grab any angel in the deck we want, including the seraph if we have a five drop. It can be really helpful in grabbing our hate pieces, including Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Angel of Jubilation (even though the latter shuts the pyre off, we'll still be glad to have her against lifepay and sacrifice shenanigans). We can sacrifice the seraph to it to grab Sephara, Sky's Blade, and then can pair it to seraph when she returns in order to give us a really mean indestructible board state that will be difficult to get around. We could use it to get Brisela, Voice of Nightmares Meld Meld out, and can even sacrifice the seraph to get Bruna, the Fading Light Meld, bonding it to Brisela when it returns. We could also sac a three-drop to get Serra Paragon, and the immediately get back said three drop with paragon's ability, and then can keep the same thing with other one, two, and three drop angels, getting focused "card draw" out of the equation. We can do the same thing by sacrificing the seraph to get out Emeria Shepherd which we can then use to get it back immediately if we have a plains in hand. Even on its own the seraph can protect Giada, Brisela, Sephara, or any other angel that is critical to our gameplan.
Needless to say, I think it would be a mistake to not include this combo, though I also think it would be a mistake to get too excited about it and build around it as it could compromise our main plan which is goldfishing and killing the table. This combo gives us some resilience and allows us to potentially leverage our angel library as a resource. It's great, but it's not essential. As such, a surgical approach would work best. I think I am likely to cut Darksteel Mutation and Starnheim Unleashed to put it in. I'll add Kabira Takedown Flip into the mana base to keep my removal at parity, and cut the worst removal piece, which is mutation. Starnheim Unleashed is an awesome card in the deck and I am reticent to cut it, but this combo is just better. I'd still recommend playing it for anyone who has room in their list.
Including the pyre also raises the question of other pieces that could be included. Inspiring Overseer is one I've had my eye on for awhile, and it is great here as we can sac it to get four drops and then get it back when paired with the seraph. It was already good with Sword of Hearth and Home for getting a draw engine going, and will be great with Serra Paragon and Emeria Shepherd as well. It's not essential by any means and we have to consider the floor of the card which is that it is an over-costed, one-off angelic version of Elvish Visionary, but at the three drop slot it gets some consideration at any rate because of the times where it can be really good.
The other card that should be considered now is Archangel of Tithes. This wasn't high priority before because we rarely needed either of its abilities since we usually have enough huge blockers to deter attacking and our flyers don't often have issues with blockers. Nonetheless, it is a great toolbox piece against infinite attack step/attacker combos like Godo/Helm Kiki-Jiki/Village Bell Ringer, etc. These combos still kill us because they can generate enough attackers to get around and eventually kill our defenders, but with the archangel they'll never be able to pay for it, making it a helpful hate piece much like Linvala and Jubilation are.
I currently don't have slots to add these, but will be keeping an eye on things to potentially cut to potentially add them.
December 14, 2022 10:47 a.m.
DranDraggore says... #4
Hi, I am working on a quite similar deck, got a lot of inspiration from you and wanted to thank you for all the effort and feedback!
Two cards I was considering:
Damning Verdict As we expect our angels to have at least on +1/+1 counter on them, this is in many cases a 5 Mana one-sided boardwipe.
Mass Calcify Used to be my alternative, but got cut in favor of Damning Verdict. Depending on the Meta, this can be superior, maybe keep it in the sideboard.
December 15, 2022 10:31 a.m.
Thanks for the encouragement and I am glad that you are enjoying Giada! I did ave Mass Calcify in the original draft of the deck and it is a fun card. The high cmc made it so that I didn't love it because it took my turn to cast and slowed me down. I have thought about Damning Verdict and it is probably the best option for another one-sided board wipe in addition to Winds of Abandon. So far, however, I haven't usually wanted board wipes often, and targeted removal has always done the trick for me better than bigger plays. I'll slot Ondu Inversion Flip into the mana base to have a second board wipe in a pinch, and to get an option to close out the game early in combination with Cosmic Intervention. That being said, if you're finding that you need another board wipe I think that you are correct that verdict is the best option.
December 15, 2022 11:05 a.m.
For Inspiring Overseer and Archangel of Tithes I’m debating Angel of Condemnation, Sigarda's Vanguard and Angelic Skirmisher.
Angel of Condemnation has been useful at times. In mid to late game we are usually holding up the 3 mana for an answer anyway and it would combo decently with Inspiring Overseer but I pulled it in favor of more free or impactful effects. When we use it on an enemies creature it doesn’t really remove it, it just delays it for a turn. And it only helps their strategy if they’re relying on etb effects. Also, since we’re running more recursion now I’m not so skittish to let things die. It would help us save things from single target exile though. I may need more play testing to see.
Sigarda's Vanguard is great as a finisher or to get through some big blockers but it’s typically a one and done. If we’re holding it from the start then it’s a dead card till we establish a board presence. It won’t be impactful after a board wipe. There may be some outs with Pyre of Heroes and recursion but like you mentioned it shouldn’t be something we’re building around. This would be a tough cut but it would make sense compared to Archangel of Tithes. Depending on the player with big flyers, they may not have the extra mana to pay for blockers. It’s still useful against non infinite attacks like the one game where Marneus Calgar had 16 angels and swung lethal since he definitely didn’t have 16 mana to pay.
Angelic Skirmisher is one of those cards that when you draw it with a decent board presence it’s amazing. Lifelink on attack, first strike on defense. But if you tutored for Lyra Dawnbringer then there’s your lifelink. If we have Archangel of Tithes then there’s your defense. It provides overlap on that lifelink but with additional tutoring it may become a dead card late game. It also costs 6cmc and we’re adding in Breathkeeper Seraph so pulling her could help keep our average cmc low.
I’ll have a couple games on the 23rd with my buddies so hopefully I can post some gameplay tech with the new swaps.
December 15, 2022 2:29 p.m.
LancerTheMagi says... #7
I finally received and got to play my upgrades to my Giada list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/WwZ_AYnY2keV_lewDkoTsQ Overall it flowed well and I won several games, though I didn't do the in-depth analysis kirbysan has done. I was able to make a large board fairly quickly if unchecked by boardwipes, but even then if I hadn't overextended recovery was simple except for the one time I got mana screwed and had kept a bad hand.
On multiple occasions I had over 100 life from a combination of Authority of the Consuls, Angel of Vitality, and lifelink angels, which makes me wonder if adding in some alternate wincons like Aetherflux Reservoir and Test of Endurance would be a good idea, especially with Emergence Zone in the deck.
December 17, 2022 2:05 p.m.
Lord_of_Lords says... #8
Hello, I have a Giada EDH deck too that I've been playing and tinkering with for a few months. I took a lot of advice from reading your primer, so thank you for making it. My LGS meta is dominated with infinite combo decks, so my current strategy is to combine a voltron- and stax-playstyle to control the early-to-mid game, and then dominate the late game with big, powerful angels. As such, I only run around 20 angels and I cut most of the cheap ones for stax enchantments and equipment to kit up Giada. I need to play more games with it, but so far, it seems pretty effective.
December 19, 2022 10:41 p.m.
Buddies cancelled so I played 3 pub games instead:
Starting hand: Emeria, The Sky Ruin, Plains, Plains, Path to Exile, Angelic Page, Archangel of Tithes, Sanctuary Warden
As we played through the game it became clear that Esix was the big threat. The board was wiped twice, once with N'ghathrod's Hex and a second time with Sigarda's Day of Judgment. Archangel of Tithes helped get a few early attacks in against Esix as they usually tapped out to play some bigger spells.
I was able to keep Esix in check a few times by using Path to Exile on their commander when they were about to pop off. I also used Oblation again on Esix when they cast a Pest Infestation destroying my Crucible of Worlds and Vanquisher's Banner but netting 12 pests. Finally, I had a Kabira Takedown Flip but only 2 creatures on the field so it couldn't deal with anything on Esix's board so I used it on Sigarda's Soul Warden.
At the final turn I had Sanctuary Warden equipped to Sword of Feast and Famine, Righteous Valkyrie and Angelic Field Marshal. In my hand I had Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Emeria Shepherd, Sword of Hearth and Home and a Seraph Sanctuary. Giada had been removed 3 times this game so she cost 8. Esix was at 6 but also had a Sublime Epiphany with open mana and a Craterhoof Behemoth in hand with 19 creatures, mostly 1/1 tokens on board.
As I'm writing this I realized I had the answer but didn't realize it at the time. If I had casted Sword of Hearth and Home Esix would have countered it and bounced my Sanctuary Warden forcing it out of their hand. I could then equip the Sword of Feast and Famine to another angel and swung for lethal since they had no flying blockers. I could have also moved to equip Sword of Feast and Famine to another angel which they could've countered once, but I had open mana to do it again. Despite losing this round let's count it as a win due to my misplay.
Starting hand: Windswept Heath, Sol Ring, Pearl Medallion, Angel of Vitality, Mangara, the Diplomat, Soul Warden
Perhaps this was a risky hand to keep but with the Sol Ring and Pearl Medallion I could literally play everything in my hand if not disrupted so I kept it.
Kraum also kept a risky hand but it paid off for them in the short term. They cast a Show and Tell which let me only drop Angel of Vitality but they dropped an Omniscience and proceeded to play out their hand giving themselves an immense board state on turn 3.
Kraum made a serious misplay here as they used a Cyclonic Rift on my Sol Ring and a bounce spell that returned all creatures with power less than 5. This was supposed to wipe the board but Angel of Vitality was a 5/5. They followed this up with a Wheel of Misfortune paying 35 life expecting us to bet high life totals so they wouldn't get the wheel. Unfortunately for them we bid pretty low numbers and Kraum took the full 35. With no flying blockers on board they were dead next turn.
With Kraum out of the game and a fresh 7 card hand I ended up dominating the board. Some nice synergies were using Sword of Hearth and Home on Sanctuary Warden to 2 cards a turn, one for ETB, one for swinging. Bishop of Wings with Resplendent Angel and Angelic Accord gave me double angels on my end steps. Finally, having Emeria, The Sky Ruin and 7 plains let me fill my boardstate quickly. While the game took longer I never hit another board wipe and closed it out with 64 life.
Starting Hand: Flooded Strand, Path of Ancestry, Soul Warden, Luminarch Ascension, Pyre of Heroes, Folk Hero, Angelic Curator
I was excited about this hand because it had 2 new cards that hadn't come up in the last couple games I played so I wanted to test it out. While it should have curved out pretty nicely, having only Folk Hero as the draw card with a single angel should've been a warning sign. My early board state included Giada, Font of Hope, Soul Warden and Luminarch Ascension. As predicted, Luminarch Ascension was able to get 3 counters on it after a single turn.
However I was hit by a board wipe early on and had to decide whether to use Luminarch's ability or recast Giada. I foolishly recast Giada only to have her removed again with Skysovereign, Consul Flagship. When Sigarda went to blow up Luminarch I produced 3 4/4 angels with 6 mana to give me some blockers. I had also drawn into The Ozolith but it was only able to add 1 counter on it.
For the rest of the game Kykar solely targeted me with their growing vehicle board state. Since Giada now cost 6 and Skysovereign was pinging for 3 every turn I couldn't waste the mana to recast her which turned off Folk Hero. I cast Angelic Curator just for a blocker since it would be hugely advantageous against vehicles but it was promptly removed with Dispatch by Kykar. I was also able to draw into a Mask of Memory but was stalled out since Kykar had Spirit token blockers, Atraxa had their commander and Sigarda also had their commander. I was the first to be knocked out and this was a definite loss. I did cast Pyre of Heroes but didn't draw into any angels until late game so it had no effect.
Luminarch Ascension is a great card but also a lightning rod. In the third game it presented a threat early on and if Giada hadn't been removed twice so early it could've helped end the game. Not getting those +1/+1 counters on the angels hurt my game plan quite a lot.
The Ozolith saw play but had little impact. Again, if Giada hadn't been removed early I could've dumped all those counters onto it and preserved threats.
Pyre of Heroes also saw play but had little impact. The overall flow of the game meant I was essentially stuck. Eye of Vecna would've been more impactful here but since Kykar had such an oppressive board state I would need to play much bigger threats to make a difference.
While Giada may not always be necessary to our gameplan, not having her and being unable to cast her slows us up so much that opponents can just out ramp or out threaten us pretty quickly. Dodging an entire table's board wipes and single target removals is pretty tough and makes me consider Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots again.
December 24, 2022 8:53 p.m.
Hi all! I've taken advantage of some store crefit and Christmas cash to order some more cards for the deck. I'll post updates shortly, though I've forecast most of them already if you've been following along.
December 28, 2022 12:24 p.m.
AngelPrince13 says... #11
For creatures, I would recommend adding in Seraph of the Sword, Twilight Shepherd, and Inspiring Overseer.
Seraph of the Sword is a fantastic card with a buff from Giada. Twilight Shepherd's persist -1 counters are cancelled out by Giada's counters, so you can reuse Twilight's ability indefinitely as long as Giada remains on the board. Inspiring Overseer is a low cmc angel that allows you to draw. I think the key to Giada decks is blitzing speed, so I tend to avoid high cmc angels and prefer lower cmc angels that I can spam the board quickly (draw power is definitely helpful for that).
December 29, 2022 1:34 p.m.
Got another couple games in today:
I made some swaps prior to today's match incluuding:
Crashing Drawbridge for Lightning Greaves
Smuggler's Share for Esper Sentinel
Search for Glory for Steelshaper's Gift
I think our decks are still functionally the same but I have a lot of the tech you were heavily considering already swapped in and will be focusing on their performance in multiplayer format.
Starting Hand?: Prismatic Vista, Windswept Heath, Myriad Landscape, Soul's Attendant, Generous Gift, Lightning Greaves, Folk Hero
Forgot to snap a picture of my starting hand but I think it was something like that. Important play of the game was Firkraag playing an early Agitator Ant. By turn 3 I had Giada equipped with a Lightning Greaves and slowly played out my hand, focusing on dropping lands and playing removal. I constantly dumped the +1/+1 counters onto Giada and since she had the greaves equipped she was basically untouchable.
After bringing Arvinox and Ryu down to the low 20's with just Giada I began dumping the counters onto a Bishop of Wings that I drew into so I could start swinging at Firkraag. Ryu also got in 2 Hadokens against Firkraag's board to draw cards. I only got 1 swing into Firkraag before they boardwiped.
I was able to recast Giada and cast an Angelic Page drawing me a card off Folk Hero. I also cast a Pyre of Heroes excited to chain it off for some spicy tech. Unfortunately Ryu was at low life and killed shortly after the boardwipe. As the other 2 players had no board they scooped to end the game so we could start the next, giving me the win.
Starting Hand: Plains, Mutavault, Pearl Medallion, Righteous Valkyrie, Sigarda's Vanguard, Well of Lost Dreams, Steelshaper's Gift
T1 - Plains into Steelshaper's Gift tutoring Lightning Greaves
T2 - Plains (drew) into Pearl Medallion
T3 - Mutavault into Lightning Greaves & Giada (Sworded by Isshin)
This game had some intense interactions. Isshin had a turn 1 Authority of the Consuls. Tevesh nearly played a turn 2 Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools with a Jeweled Lotus but was countered by Muldrotha. Firkraag played a Pursued Whale giving us all Pirate tokens and forcing us to attack. Isshin played into that with a Combat Calligrapher. The entire table started swinging into each other with increasingly multiplying Inkling tokens. After Isshin's Combat Calligrapher was blown up and they took a bunch of damage from their own Inklings they decided to super wipe the board with a Ruinous Ultimatum but luckily their board was pretty sparse.
I lost Pearl Medallion, Well of Lost Dreams, Sword of the Animist, Lightning Greaves and Righteous Valkyrie. This set me back really far but luckily I had been ramping every turn with Sword of the Animist and kept some strong angels in hand.
I recast Giada, and played Archangel of Tithes, Angelic Field Marshal and Lyra Dawnbringer with Mutavault giving me the extra +1/+1 counter. At this point Isshin started going off and nearly killed me with a combination of Tectonic Giant, Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, Isshin, Two Heavens as One, Aurelia, the Warleader but they tapped out for Dihada, Binder of Wills to give Krenko vigilance, lifelink and indestructible. When they tried to swing at me, they forgot about the tax for Tithes and instead knocked out Tevesh and Muldrotha. Muldrotha took out Aurelia, the Warleader as retribution.
On the final turn I was left with only Oblation and Breathkeeper Seraph in hand. I had the choice to use it on one of Isshin's creatures but they were in such a dominating position that giving them 2 cards was probably a bad idea. Instead I used it on a tapped Emergence Zone and drew into Thraben Watcher and Sigarda's Vanguard. With the combination of all the angels I brought Isshin down to 3 and Firkraag cleaned up but had nothing against my board so scooped.
Starting Hand: Cavern of Souls, Flooded Strand, Windswept Heath, Esper Sentinel, Path to Exile, The Ozolith, Teferi's Protection
I debated even listing this game as it was over so fast. Alela burst out on turn 1 with an Island into Sol Ring into Arcane Signet. Turn 2 they played a Smothering Tithe. Turn 3 they played a Bolas's Citadel. In one of their turns they cast a Vendilion Clique bottoming my Teferi's Protection. Despite whiffing for 2 turns off the top of their library they were so ahead with ramp that they quickly overtook the game. I died by turn 5 to 35+ damage from a faerie army beefed up with Coat of Arms. The other 2 players scooped as they had no interaction with the Coat.
T1 Esper Sentinel did some amazing work here. I drew off every player at least 2-3 times so it netted me like 7-8 cards for just 1 mana.
I also attempted to attack with Battle Angels of Tyr but it was bounced to my hand by next turn.
The Ozolith ended up doing nothing this game but that's more due to having no boardstate. Together Forever wouldn't have done anything in this game either so its impact still hasn't been seen. Other players did comment that it could be a problem with a bigger board.
I did have a misplay here as I should have held up mana for removal spells which I had in my hand. My final hand was Vanquisher's Banner, Archangel of Thune, Angelic Accord, Serra Paragon, Valkyrie Harbinger, Path of Exile and Swords to Plowshares. I just didn't expect Alela to quintuple their damage in one turn.
Starting Hand: Secluded Steppe, Emergence Zone, Plains, Pearl Medallion, Thorough Investigation, Angelic Field Marshal, Angel of Vitality
T1 - Secluded Steppe tapped
T2 - Plains into Pearl Medallion
T3 - Emergence Zone into Thorough Investigation and Giada, Font of Hope
I had several misplays this game as it had been a long day. The first was using my Clues too early instead of playing out my hand and refilling it later with the Clues.
Phenax became a huge threat towards mid-game as they had a Haunt of high tower on board along with their commander Phenax, God of Deception. They forced Ghisath to mill 40+ cards with 4 creatures. I had Kabira Takedown Flip in hand but it wouldn't put a dent in the Haunt. Instead I opted for player removal and swung with everything knocking them out.
My second misplay here was not tapping Giada to cast Angelic Field Marshal which would've given all my creatures vigilance. I was so used to swinging with Giada first and then tapping her that I failed to see her as a mana dork. Since I had Archangel of Tithes out it would've prevented huge swings against me as well.
Since I was wide open Gishath took the advantage and swung at me dropping a good number of dinos on their board. However on their next turn when they tried to use Silverclad Ferocidons with Pyrohemia Jared saved the day by sacrificing Primeval Spawn into a Time Warp.
When I tried to rebuild I realized I had no clues left and no attackers to draw into answers. I also made my third misplay by wasting a Path to Exile on a random dinosaur thinking it would sacrifice Pyrohemia but then stupidly played Bishop of Wings so I could trigger my The Book of Exalted Deeds by replaying Giada.
I died on the next turn to due to lethal Gishath commander damage. If I had saved my Path I could've used it on Gishath and played out more angels for the lifegain.
Lightning Greaves was amazing in the 2 games it was played. It was so great that Isshin focused Giada when it came back out. In fact I like it so much that I'm going to try and find a spot for Swiftfoot Boots so I can keep equipping without removing the protection.
Esper Sentinel was also great the 1 game I got it out. Drawing that many cards for 1 mana is just too good to pass up. If you haven't purchased Smuggler's Share yet I'd say go for Esper first.
Archangel of Tithes was SO GOOD. It saved me from lethal once and would've again a second time if I didn't misplay again. With vigilance it does double duty.
Well of Lost Dreams felt a little clunky in game 2. I want to like it, it has a high ceiling but it needs some prep work to start drawing. Either I drop it instead of a threat or I play it much later. I also need lifegain and the mana to draw from it. With the amount of work that goes into it to activate it, a board wipe usually turns it off. We have no other lifegain outside of creature based lifegain. So we would only draw with an established board presence and we're using mana to draw into threats rather than play them. It feels either like a win-more card or a hail mary to get something good. I'm actually debating its place in this deck and what may be a better card draw. Court of Grace at least replaces itself on our end step and provides either an Angel or Spirit on our upkeep. It also requires no additional maintenance to get it going.
Others at the table commented that Authority of the Consuls is a better option to the soul sisters. While I do like the tap mechanic of Authority, it doesn't trigger off my creatures. Also having it be an enchantment means that most people won't bother with it all game. Soul sisters typically get wiped with the rest of the board whereas opponents have to target Authority. I find that I don't usually hit the payoffs on opponents turn but on my own turn. However, I only hit the magic 4/5 life when Bishop of Wings or Righteous Valkyrie is out, not off a soul sister. I know that you really like the soul sisters but practically every game I've had a board wipe and the payoffs haven't been worth it.
Kabira Takedown Flip has its uses but in terms of removal is pretty poor for the slot. After a boardwipe it's practically worthless.
Even though I STILL haven't pulled off Pyre of Heroes properly I'm once again debating Recruiter of the Guard and Weathered Wayfarer. Since they're both humans they can chain into our human sub-theme. Weathered Wayfarer can be sacrificed into Bishop of Wings to get our lifegain payoffs going. It also helps grab lands for Emeria Shepherd if we want to recur stuff from the graveyard. Recruiter of the Guard can tutor for Starnheim Aspirant, Esper Sentinel, Inspiring Overseer, Thraben Watcher and can be sacrificed into Mangara, the Diplomat.
December 31, 2022 2:52 a.m.
Just finished making my edits to my current decklist. There are still a bunch of experimental swaps in it so it's definitely not the finalized version. At current count I have 29 swaps but 12 of them are lands and I'm sure we have some overlap in your next update. I've also wrote down my thinking for each swap. I'll be bringing this updated deck list to the store today and will post performance of newer cards. Let me know what you think!
December 31, 2022 1:12 p.m.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hope-never-dies/?cb=1672510404
December 31, 2022 1:13 p.m.
Last game of the year! Sorry I've taken over your comment board, hope all these gameplay interactions help!
Opponents: Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools / Armix, Filigree Thrasher
Starting Hand: Marsh Flats, Plains, Sol Ring, Serra Ascendant, Serra Avenger, Court of Grace, Breathkeeper Seraph
T1 - Marsh Flats into Plains into Serra Ascendant
T2 - Plains into Sol Ring and Luminarch Ascension (drew into), swung in for 6 damage
T3 - Plains into Court of Grace, drew on endstep, swung in for another 6 damage
T4 - +1 Angel on upkeep, Plains into Giada, Font of Hope and held up mana to make 2 Angels, drew on endstep, swung in for another 6 damage
T5 - created 2 Angels (6 power & 7 power) on opponents end step, +1 Angel (8 power) on upkeep. Cast a Tome of Legends getting ready for the boardwipe. Swung in for 21 damage, drew on endstep.
T6 - nobody at the table had the boardwipe so I cleaned up next turn with Sigarda's Vanguard knocking out each other player simultaneously. I think this was the fastest this deck has ever performed in a 4-man pod and all the damage was dealt by me.
Opponents: Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools / Armix, Filigree Thrasher, O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
Starting Hand: Windswept Heath, Arid Mesa, Plains, Bonders' Enclave, Serra Paragon, Gisela, the Broken Blade Meld, Archangel of Thune
Thought about not including this one either as it was a slow hand and a fast game. Muldrotha comboed out turn 4 making 2 million squirrels and nobody had any interaction so we were dead on turn 5.
Opponents: Koma, Cosmos Serpent, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools / Armix, Filigree Thrasher, O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
Starting Hand: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Plains, Plains, Pyre of Heroes, Gisela, the Broken Blade Meld, Battle Angels of Tyr, Angelic Curator
I had played Battle Angels of Tyr but it was quickly removed by Tevesh before I could swing with it, which is fair given a 5-man pod.
Instead I went for the slower play with Giada, Font of Hope, Angelic Curator and Angelic Sleuth on the field. I held Pyre of Heroes in hand thinking I would go for the Inspiring Overseer / Serra Paragon line to draw into some cards and get some clues.
However, Muldrotha again was a huge problem turn 5. They had Scute Swarm and cracked some fetches and played green ramp spells bringing up their total to the low 100s but they only had 32 they could attack with. They decided to swing all of them at me as I was the only one with any sort of board presence. O-Kagachi let the table know they had a fog effect but we elected to use it on the next turn.
At this point I had Giada, Font of Hope, Angelic Sleuth, Righteous Valkyrie and Pyre of Heroes on the battlefield. Once Muldrotha had started producing massive amounts of Scutes I knew they were coming at me. Also I had drawn into Archangel of Thune which I played and swung in bringing me back up to the low 20's.
On turn 6 O-Kagachi used the fog and Muldrotha just set themselves up better for the next round. They cast a Sandwurm Convergence to stop me from knocking them out.
Tevesh decided this was the best time to go off so they tapped out for a Peer into the Abyss. A lot of artifact shenanigans happened and they ended up at 4 life due to Bolas's Citadel, nearly wiped the board with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and killed Muldrotha with an artifact creature with Cranial Plating and Lightning Greaves. Unfortunately they didn't see that O-Kagachi was out and only -5 for Ugin so they were dead to the dragon on their turn.
I was able to build back relatively quickly as I drew into a Thorough Investigation and cracked some clues. O-Kagachi became the new archenemy as they had their commander out and a Fist of Suns so they were casting high-costed cards with the limited mana they had. Koma used Kiora, the Crashing Wave to negate the damage of O-Kagachi's commander. They also countered a Conflux which could've ended the game.
I tried to swing in once but was stopped by a fog. I also made another misplay with Oblation targeting their Myojin of Seeing Winds as I misheard thinking it was a 10/10 flying indestructible when it was a 3/3 that didn't even fly. They removed the divinity counter drawing 12 and drew another 2 off Oblation. Next turn they cast a Morophon, the Boundless and dropped all the spirits they drew off those 14 cards. If I had held up my Oblation for their fist of the suns instead they would have had no mana for anything else and I could've swung in for the win.
Court of Grace was also amazing here. While 1 card a turn is not the best for 4 mana, 1 card and 1 angel for 4 is amazing. Obviously the Sol Ring did work in getting it out early but against slower decks they had no way to attack me regardless.
Pyre of Heroes was actually useful this time! Pitching the 2/2 body of Angelic Curator into a Righteous Valkyrie is a strong move. I was only able to use it once before the Ugin exile but it helped keep me in the game. Without it, I would've been dead right after Tevesh finished off Muldrotha, perhaps even in the same turn.
Sigarda's Vanguard was also great again. However if I'm not planning out dropping my angels out in the correct turn order then I'm not always getting the full benefit from her. Akroma's Will would save us the headache of counting and planning while also providing the evasion to get through flying creatures. I think I'll still stick the Vanguard as the light recursion package allows us to bring her back on another turn for additional value whereas Will would just languish in the graveyard.
We had a turn 0 discussion before games 2 and 3 and agreed on playing more mid-tier decks as I only brought Giada. The Muldrotha player typically durdles with nothing to do and decided to add in some spicy cards not knowing how they'd perform. Tevesh doesn't always go off like this but Peer into the Abyss is usually a card that gets countered. The table let it resolve due to needing to knock out Muldrotha first.
January 1, 2023 1:09 p.m.
For whatever reason I thought Sigarda's Vanguard only triggered on etb. Ignore my last comment in conclusions. She’s vastly superior to Akroma's Will for our purposes.
January 5, 2023 11:44 a.m.
AngelPrince13 says... #17
Creatures in my Giada deck that aren't in yours include:
Admonition Angel Angel of Sanctions Angel of Invention Blinding Angel Avacyn Guardian Angel Baneslayer Angel Dawnbreak Reclaimer Enduring Angel Karmic Guide Serra's Emissary Sunblast Angel Seraph of the Sword Twilight Shepherd Inspiring Overseer
January 5, 2023 9:03 p.m.
First game of the year. I'll probably be playing Giada less now as I think the list is pretty optimized at this point.
Opponents: Arvinox, the Mind Flail, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Gisa and Geralf
Starting Hand: Plains, Plains, The Ozolith, Court of Grace, Bishop of Wings, Serra Paragon, Mangara, the Diplomat
Starting hand wasn't great as I would need to draw a land to curve out but I had 2 draw cards in hand so I figured it was worth it. Luckily the table was playing pretty slow and I drew into some ramp.
I started with a T1 Ozolith and drew into an Enlightened Tutor which got me Pearl Medallion so I could play my Court of Grace.
Arvinox played 3 separate sacrifice cards where I sacced my Angel tokens and dumped the +1/+1 counters onto The Ozolith to pump up my next swings. They were able to get a Bolas's Citadel out quite early but due to the constant beatdown from my Angels couldn't explode like normal.
Sigarda tried to get through my Angel wall but I always chumped blocked to protect my Monarch token. Late in the game they used a Day of Judgment but at that time I had Breathkeeper Seraph soulbonded to Giada and a bunch of Angel tokens so I let it resolve. I had a foretold Cosmic Intervention since the early game but I was maintaining so much threat with my tokens and Ozolith that I never needed to use it.
Unfortunately Gisa durdled the whole game as they were also hit by Arvinox's sacrifice cards and Sigarda's board wipe so could never really get off the ground.
I ended the game with 89 life and Giada as a 40/40 with 36 +1/+1 counters and 2 anthems.
The Ozolith like most of our 1-drops, can change the makeup of the game quite heavily from the start if we drop it T1. I've had it in a few games before but usually only drew into it mid to late game where its impact is not as great.
Court of Grace I think was in your deck before as it was mine but ended up getting pulled in favor of other cards. Now that I've had a few more games with it I think it's provides too much synergy to leave out.
I think the lifegain strategy as whole is niche and our payoffs aren't really worth it to build an entire package around. I still got to 89 life this game due to just 2 cards - Bishop of Wings and a late game Pyre of Heroes on Serra Paragon for a Lyra Dawnbringer that was essentially a win-more move rather than strategic. I know you love your soul sisters but I think in your next few games you might want to take another look at their performance. Well of Lost Dreams was kind of on your chopping block before and I think it's time to revisit that card as well.
January 8, 2023 1:41 a.m.
Perilous_Percival says... #19
Thoughts on the new angel? Seems like it could be decent with the 1/1 counters at least.
January 18, 2023 11:06 p.m.
I saw that too and was at first excited for a new angel BUT it's 5CMC so it's tied for Archangel of Thune, Herald of War, Lyra Dawnbringer and Sigarda's Vanguard. It doesn't gain life, cost reduce or finish the game. While it does increase the number of counters it's only once per our turn and only by a power of 1 per angel.
If we're trying to bring back Giada late game then we'd already need counters on the board to proliferate. If we're attacking it's not providing the same power as Vanguard which is essentially double. At most it'd be an 4-5 additional power? Nothing to write home about.
If we had other types of counters it could be interesting but at most it'd be an additional enlightened counter off The Book of Exalted Deeds or an extra quest counter for Luminarch Ascension. Neither of which are great choices.
As a body it holds up well enough, 5/4 flying first strike but at that cost we're looking more towards abilities and less at bodies.
If it's cheap and you want to test it out I'd say go for it but I'm personally passing. Also, it's phyrexian, and not pretty so ew. :)
January 18, 2023 11:31 p.m.
Perilous_Percival says... #21
kirbysan Yeah, probably not enough counter support to justify it. It might be phyrexian but hey, the art is pretty at least imo lol
January 19, 2023 5:57 p.m.
Perilous_Percival Haha to each their own. Whenever I get Brisela, Voice of Nightmares Meld Meld melded I push it towards the center of the table because the art creeps me out. :)
January 19, 2023 6:50 p.m.
Perilous_Percival says... #23
Totally missed it from the previous sets, but I could see this being slotted in the low curve spot!
February 3, 2023 1:54 p.m.
Perilous_Percival says... #24
Also has anyone tried out Sceptre of Eternal Glory?
February 3, 2023 1:57 p.m.
I thought about Angelic Cub but the lack of flying as a default ability kinda sucks. Guerric pulled out all the changelings because they lacked flying. In order to give it flying you'd need it to come out as the 4th angel with Giada on the field. Or you'd need to have equipments already on the field and target it to give its 3rd +1/+1 counter. Honestly it just sounds like a lot of setup for a flying angel body in the end. So, not a fan.
Sceptre of Eternal Glory is another mana rock. I've brought up the concept of mana rocks before but the disadvantage to them is that due to the lack of sufficient card draw in mono-white you're basically playing rocks instead of threats and you run out of gas quick.
kirbysan says... #1
Guerric
Was able to squeeze in a 4-pod game after Brother's War Game Day today and had some interesting interactions with the new cards:
Opponents:
Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver Zombies, Koma, Cosmos Serpent Simic Goodstuff, Krenko, Mob Boss Goblins
Starting Hand:
Ancient Tomb, Mutavault, Cavern of Souls, Snow-Covered Plains, Enlightened Tutor, Sephara, Sky's Blade, Bishop of Wings
I didn't have a draw in hand but with the tutor could've gotten one. First card I drew though was Smuggler's Share so it went something like:
T1 - Snow-Covered Plains for Enlightened Tutor for Pearl Medallion
T2 - Ancient Tomb into Smuggler's Share *
*I know I broke the carnal rule of not playing Giada turn 2 but I was fully expecting the Koma player to begin ramping as Simic typically does
T3 - Cavern of Souls into Pearl Medallion & Giada, Font of Hope
T4 - Snow-Covered Plains (drew into) to play Bishop of Wings and then I had to replay Giada for 3 because the Krenko player had PTSD from the angel swarm I played against him last time and blew up my Giada
My first angel to drop after Giada was actually Breathkeeper Seraph who I soulbonded to Giada. My Bishop of Wings was also blown up by Krenko but when they took out Giada, I just got her back on my next upkeep and re-soulbonded her.
I was able to get out Sephara, Sky's Blade hardcasted with an Angelic Page for 1 and had a nasty board state. Since nobody was playing white, they didn't have many exile effects, only destroy effects. Even if they were able to take out Sephara, they'd need to follow up with a board wipe before my upkeep or I'd just get her back. Wilhelt played Drag to the Bottom which only ended up helping me since my angels were so large.
In the end I closed out the game with a couple swings and a well timed Sigarda's Vanguard not that it mattered much since they couldn't touch my board. One play I enjoyed was using Oblation on Koma before their turn as they never ended up ramping and could never get their commander back out. I had misgivings about this card but it ended up being useful and I don't always have a Path or Swords in hand to deal with threats. Smuggler's Share was yet another whiff this game as I only got a single treasure out of it and it lasted the whole game. I think the lesson here is that I should always use Enlightened Tutor on a draw spell, rather than a ramp spell. On the other hand, if no player is ramping or drawing then we're essentially just keeping pace with them.
December 11, 2022 1:16 a.m.